Under a Socialist Barack Hussein Obama Presidency
Posted in the Apex Forum
#2 Oct 25, 2008
MALARKY and BULL HOCKY
#3 Oct 27, 2008
This is just another racist post. Cut the crap and get to the issues at hand. Vote with your conscience.
Since: Oct 08
#4 Oct 27, 2008
1. Lowers taxes for the working man=more money to spend=self destruction=co-dependency if a person lacks in common sense and good judgment!
COMMENT: It is presumptuous to think that, if citizens receive more money as a consequence of lowering taxes, that they would somehow self destruct. Based on that logic, the tax stimulus rebate initiated by George Bush and supported by John McCain in 2000 has the intentional side effect of making a segment of society co-dependant. This does not account for those who have fallen prey to the economic crisis, lost a job or a home. Does this mean they are co-dependant? I hope, for Senator McCains sake, his advisors are not pushing him to run his campaign based on this logic.
2. Raises taxes on and spreads businesss profits around
COMMENT: This is an incomplete assertion and ambiguous. Which businesses are you speaking of? Those that generate more or less than $250,000? Corps or small business enterprises?
3. = product prices go up to compensate for the increase in taxes (who pays for this, the responsible working man)
COMMENT: Product and service prices may escalate from a variety of reasons: Supply / demand, no credit available, rising health care costs to businesses who support their employees, inflated compensations packages for executive officers etc. Again, this assertion only presents a piece of the problem and does not support your argument.
4. Do you really think business is going to stay around the USA long enough to spread their profit?
Yes and No. The USA will not survive without commerce. However, a lot of the profit has already been removed from the economy and transferred to offshore bank accounts where it is not being taxed or considered at all. Do the research. How much money do you think was transferred from US banks offshore accounts during the 48 hours prior to Lehman Bros. announcing bankruptcy? Do you think this is patriotic? You cannot spread wealth that is no longer a part of the US treasury or in the US banking system.
5. We would all love to have someone else be responsible for our actions or would we!
COMMENT: No, I fully responsible for myself and those that I support (i.e., my family). I am a fiscal conservative, own two small businesses and am accountable for all of my actions, as we all should be.
6. What is going to happen to small business=with all the poor working man not having any jobs because big business left town or their jobs have gone to illegal aliens
COMMENT: Big business will not close because their taxes have increased. They will close (or down-scale) because market competition and conditions have made them less competitive or consumers simply cannot afford their goods or services. Think about what you are saying: If big businesses are retaining illegal aliens for labor to avoid paying payroll taxes to remain operable, they are subverting American jobs, our economy and US workers. These big businesses should be penalized SEVERELY, which is not a tax issue but a Department of Justice matter. This also underscores the need for immigration reform.
7. the working man wont have enough money to support them to stay in business, and the illegal aliens wont make enough money to support any business!
COMMENT: Exactly my point in #6. What is more poignant is, the small businesses are the ones that are closing, not the big ones. This is why Obama supports giving breaks to small businesses and owners as opposed to large corporations.
Since: Oct 08
#5 Oct 27, 2008
Part II cont
8. Obama said,Spread the wealth around. What we see happening does Obama know what the word co-dependency means? Does Obama realize that by helping someone, his campaign helps create a co-dependency Obama does have an education background, and we would like to think that common sense goes along with that! Does Obama lack in common sense and good judgment OR does he see the co-dependency that has been created with the less fortunate and is using this co-dependency as a TOOL to be elected?
COMMENT: This is complete oversimplification. You are implying that the only thing that comes out of assisting someone is co-dependency, which is completely untrue and inaccurate. You would have a hard time explaining that to those who have lost their homes or jobs as a consequence of unbridled, unregulated corporate greed. I suspect this is the main reason why a lot of independents and GOP members alike are switching this election. You have to give the American people more credit than that. I do believe that there needs to be more responsibility by those receiving aid and more accountability in government. There should be no free checks and, if members of society disagree or wish to sandbag, they should bear the consequences serving our military, helping rebuild our roads, schools and infrastructure etc. PAY IT BACK IN SOME FORM, which is what Obama is advocating.
Related, There is this thing called the Iraq war that cost 1 trillion, plus an economic crisis that may cost 2 more trill when done. Where do you think the money will come from to pay for it? Truth be told, our national treasury has been raped. Although Senator McCain opposes raising taxes, he has expressed no plan on what he intends to do to pay for these things. Can you show a plan that he has set forth to address? This is the biggest problem I have with his campaign attacks and claims of past experience aside, where are the solutions?
Since: Oct 08
#6 Oct 27, 2008
Part III cont
1. It is also true that John McCain proposes a refundable tax credit -- his $5,000 to help individuals buy health insurance. We've written before that we prefer a tax deduction for individual health care, rather than a credit.
COMMENT: Who is we? The main problem with health care is that health insurance companies are unregulated and can (and have been) raising health care costs at will. This is another bubble (like Wall Street) waiting to burst. Addressing weather or not it is a credit or benefit is a band aid that only addresses the symptom, not the cause. This is also why Obama is proposing to stimulate the small businesses that are providing health care to its employees as opposed to simply giving every free citizen a voucher to subscribe to any plan they choose (see Q&A #6 above). What will happen if/when insurance companies decide to raise premiums? Will that subsidy increase also?
2. I guess all we have to do is choose which one we should elect for President; it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
COMMENT: You are correct about this one. Some Americans are really going to have to take a hard look at reality and determine if they are earning more than 250k or less. Seems pretty simple if you can read a tax return, but if you are not paying, then it is a no-brainer on how you would benefit. However, I agree with fundamental principals that we all need to step up and take responsibility, there should be limits (time, costs and otherwise) on any assistance and there needs to be accountability by citizens as well as government.
3. Senator McCain older and more wise (yes), battle ground experienceboth political and actual war to run our country (most definitely), honorable, truthful and SINCEREyes please DONT misplace your anger for Obamas actions and blame Senator McCain, and the list goes on.
COMMENT: When George W. Bush restructured the tax code in 2000, with the endorsement of a GOP led congress and support of John McCain, he redistributed the wealth by giving to the top 5%. By McCains own definition, he is a socialist. The reality is, the top 5% enjoyed a much larger benefit than the $1500 stimulus checks the rest of the 95% received, however, that same 95% now assumes an equal amount of risk. This is rampant capitalism on one hand and socialism on the other. If anything is being redistributed at this point, it is the surplus from a successful tax code that should not have modified in the first place.
Another thing being taken for granted is the backbone of the corporations that this 5% holds the American worker. Mr. 5%er: Its nice when your employees have roads to drive on, cars to get to work in, schools for their kids and adequate public safety. Those things cost taxes and if you are adamant about not raising them while they deteriorate, you are out of touch with reality. After benefiting from a windfall, it is time to get over the gifts and pay back. Civil services arent free, wars cost money and freedom and democracy do have price tags that simply cant be shelled from one citizen to another.
In the final analysis, Senator McCain has not demonstrated exactly what he intends to do differently than George W. Bush is already doing. Its easy to point fingers and blame others in hindsight (in this case, blaming his own party for policies that he supported himself) but it is another to present solutions. I considered voting for McCain, but I cannot vote for someone who does not have a clear plan to address current problems, but a vision for the future so that this does not happen again. Vote with your conscience on the issues based on logic and reality. If you are voting because you are angry about Obama, you are voting with your emotions (negative ones) and you know how that always turns out.
Vote for Obama in 2008!
An American citizen II
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