Tsongas feels the anger dialing down during radio town hall mee...

[Dracut Retiree -]

Not Glenn Beck wrote:

<quoted text>
"Death panels"
"Illegals will be covered"
"No one wants health care"
"Everybody hates the VA and Medicare"
"Public option WILL lead to Nationalized Medicine!"
Fire! Flood! Famine!

There you go Eric, what more do you need? Your a Bush guy, right?

[Publius]

Not Glenn Beck wrote:

<quoted text>
The rush is that we have gone for decades now ignoring the health crisis in this country. There is no rush. We just want it do be finished, after 30 years of stalling.
You already pay many hundreds or thousands of dollars to your Insurance Companies per month.
If we are going to keep the INSURANCE system, which Congress wants to do (ie, not go to single payer), then we DO need everybody to jump into the insurance pool to keep costs down.
If you ONLY have older/sicker people in the insurance pool, premiums will be a lot higher.
If you are 22 years old and healthy, and you dn't have insurance, what will you do if you get hit by a car? Or break your leg at the disco clubs the kids today love to go to?
We need EVERYONE to be insured if we want to solve our crisis.

You have no understanding of basic economics or insurance.

Covering everyone with insurance does not reduce cost (it spreads it over more people so some will see decreases...but others will pay increases). Giving everyone "free" health care will act to raise costs and/or cause shortages. It is a basic economic concept. If the government said tomorrow gas is free, it wouldn't be long before prices skyrocketed and shortages developed.

You also confuse insurance with health care. Insurance is one means of paying for health care. Insurance is something one purchases to prevent large financial losses. People should be allowed to choose whether or not they want insurance. Poor people do not need to insure against large financial losses (as by definition they have no meaningful assets). Poor people need welfare/charity, NOT insurance.

As for people with assets, they should bear the risk of bankruptcy if they choose NOT to insure against health related costs.

Relative to non-coverage of pre-existing conditions: Of course insurance companies will not insure someone for cancer after they already have it. This defeats the whole purpose of insurance. Imagine calling All-state insurance for homeowners insurance after your house had caught fire. If the person, fails to insure against these costs, they should go bankrupt and then rely on charity/welfare.

As for your hypothetical about the 22 year old car accident victim...he should have bought insurance. If he was at fault he will have to pay and if he can not pay then he will have to rely on the charity of others.

Ultimately, health care is not a right. It is a scarce resource just like any other commodity such as food. Under a government system resources are handed out to politically connected and under a private system resource are obtain through hard work and good fortune.

I choose the later.

[Publius]

Not Glenn Beck wrote:

<quoted text>
Thank you for the pointers on taking a wrap off and sounding reasonable.
Have you ever known anyone who is dying, really dying? I have. Do you know any doctors? I do. Obama's speech about waste of $$$ being spent on people at end of life is NOT about death panels. It's about NOT giving a hip replacement to your 98 year old grandpa who is on a ventilator and dialysis and is any day away from death.
It's ABSOLUTELY TRUE that there is an over eagerness--by patients' families and doctors alike--to provide any/all conceivable remedies and treatments to people who are just going to die anyway. And often these treatments are cruel in the pain/suffering they come with, not to mention the false hopes. It's really sad and it's a big problem. It's a cultural and a medical professional problem. THere's NO REASON to do a mammogram on your 100yo grandma. That's the kind of overzealous treatment of end of life patients Obama was talking about. If you read it otherwise, go back and re-listen to the context.
NO ONE is talking about denying REAL life-saving procedures to dear old Uncle Ernie, IF THAT'S WHAT 104yo UNCLE ERNIE WANTS. But you know, maybe ol' Ernie doesn't want to have his heart shocked, a tube shoved down his throat, a colostomy bag, and a dialysis machine in his last few weeks. That's HIS choice. Not Obama's. Not a Death Panel.
And for your appeals board: a government official deciding whether or not an insurance company should pay for my treatment? Isn't that EXACTLY the kind of "death panel" gov't bureaucrat making decisions about my health BS/scare tactic Sarah Palinites have been yammering on about?
RE: the election as a mandate--I don't know, I don't agree with you that electing obama was purely "not rewarding" Bush. Certainly that was a huge factor. But most of the Obama voters I know strongly believe in health care reform. And it was a large part of why they supported him during the campaign, over Death Panel Palin and Old Uncle McCain. So... you might want to read it differently, but it's your word against mine, and then again there are all those polls saying people want health care reform AND a public insurance option.
Excuse me while I get my fertilizer. I hid it under Obama's Kenyan birth certificate and my year's supply of Obama Kool-Aid.

Your hypotheticals about senior citizens getting unnecessary treatments are dubious and I doubt that this is a significant reason for medical costs.

However, if we take your hypothetical one step further: Is it more or less likely that some families ask for the hip replacements for their 98 year old grandpa if the procedure is "free" (i.e. paid for by medicare).

Regardless of the hypothetical scenarios, there is no question that if the government takes control of health care it will take over the responsibility of deciding what is necessary treatment and what is not. It is only a natural progression, as costs soar, that people will demand cost reductions and one way to reduce costs is to deny "unnecessary" procedure. Of course unnecessary will be defined by some government bureaucrat or "death panel".

I prefer a system where the decision is made by doctors and family. Only they can make the best decision for what is in the vital and financial best interest of the patient.

[Eric Stratton III]

Dracut Retiree - wrote:

<quoted text>
There you go Eric, what more do you need? Your a Bush guy, right?

DR, are you serious? Do you even read any of the other statements? That is your proof? I must have missed those statements and Not Glen Beck is a rabid left winger. Your a Union guy right?

[Eric Stratton III]

Publius wrote:

<quoted text>
Your hypotheticals about senior citizens getting unnecessary treatments are dubious and I doubt that this is a significant reason for medical costs.
However, if we take your hypothetical one step further: Is it more or less likely that some families ask for the hip replacements for their 98 year old grandpa if the procedure is "free" (i.e. paid for by medicare).
Regardless of the hypothetical scenarios, there is no question that if the government takes control of health care it will take over the responsibility of deciding what is necessary treatment and what is not. It is only a natural progression, as costs soar, that people will demand cost reductions and one way to reduce costs is to deny "unnecessary" procedure. Of course unnecessary will be defined by some government bureaucrat or "death panel".
I prefer a system where the decision is made by doctors and family. Only they can make the best decision for what is in the vital and financial best interest of the patient.

Gave up being rational with the lad, he sees a conspiracy behind every private business and ignores Obamas own statements as well as things actually in the bill or the logical conclusion of what can happen from the bill.

[Eric Stratton III]

Publius wrote:

<quoted text>
Your hypotheticals about senior citizens getting unnecessary treatments are dubious and I doubt that this is a significant reason for medical costs.
However, if we take your hypothetical one step further: Is it more or less likely that some families ask for the hip replacements for their 98 year old grandpa if the procedure is "free" (i.e. paid for by medicare).
Regardless of the hypothetical scenarios, there is no question that if the government takes control of health care it will take over the responsibility of deciding what is necessary treatment and what is not. It is only a natural progression, as costs soar, that people will demand cost reductions and one way to reduce costs is to deny "unnecessary" procedure. Of course unnecessary will be defined by some government bureaucrat or "death panel".
I prefer a system where the decision is made by doctors and family. Only they can make the best decision for what is in the vital and financial best interest of the patient.

You are wasting your breath dude, Not Glen Beck is not open to anything that does not agree with his premise in any way and cannot see any solution that does not involve big gov't, it is like talking to a wall. His rabid rants are a step away from a Ryder Truck and and some Fertilizer if he does not take a wrap off.

[Eric Stratton III]

Dracut Retiree - wrote:

<quoted text>
There you go Eric, what more do you need? Your a Bush guy, right?

Death panels-the wording was in it and is now being removed, nice try, I was right and even Obama talked about saving money by refusing treatments at late ages, in his speech, but you kids ignore that and I am glad you are cool with idea DR, ironic that someone your age is ok with it. ;)
"Illegals will be covered"-the kids will be covered and the law still allows ALL, non-citizens as well to be treated in the ER, people go to the ER for basic primary care medicine, there will be no change.
"No one wants health care"-when did I say that? lol, you guys never let the truth get in the way of a lie do you?
"Everybody hates the VA and Medicare"-when did I say that one? lol
"Public option WILL lead to Nationalized Medicine!"-it will, private cannot compete with the gov't and it will be shut out, just a matter of time, Not Glen Beck knows it and wants it.
Fire! Flood! Famine!- I did say Fire but that was due to me being part of the Military Industrial Complex and involved in a deep seated conspiracy to unseat the heroic soicalists who is waging a war against the evil corporations!(twirling a mustache as I write this)

Look DR, I know it is impossible for you to string points of logic into a conclusion and a little thing like Critical Thinking escapes you on a constant basis but at least try to act like you are informed. Not Glen Beck is a raving lefty but he knows and want there to be National Health Care and he is just on here fighting with a manical passion that befits a 1920's Marxist, but at least he is capable of some thought, you..umm...keep working on it Union guy ;)

[Dracut Retiree -]

Eric Stratton III wrote:

<quoted text>
Death panels-the wording was in it and is now being removed, nice try, I was right and even Obama talked about saving money by refusing treatments at late ages, in his speech, but you kids ignore that and I am glad you are cool with idea DR, ironic that someone your age is ok with it. ;)
"Illegals will be covered"-the kids will be covered and the law still allows ALL, non-citizens as well to be treated in the ER, people go to the ER for basic primary care medicine, there will be no change.
"No one wants health care"-when did I say that? lol, you guys never let the truth get in the way of a lie do you?
"Everybody hates the VA and Medicare"-when did I say that one? lol
"Public option WILL lead to Nationalized Medicine!"-it will, private cannot compete with the gov't and it will be shut out, just a matter of time, Not Glen Beck knows it and wants it.
Fire! Flood! Famine!- I did say Fire but that was due to me being part of the Military Industrial Complex and involved in a deep seated conspiracy to unseat the heroic soicalists who is waging a war against the evil corporations!(twirling a mustache as I write this)
Look DR, I know it is impossible for you to string points of logic into a conclusion and a little thing like Critical Thinking escapes you on a constant basis but at least try to act like you are informed. Not Glen Beck is a raving lefty but he knows and want there to be National Health Care and he is just on here fighting with a manical passion that befits a 1920's Marxist, but at least he is capable of some thought, you..umm...keep working on it Union guy ;)

Your insults towards me roll off like water on a duck's back, your comments only serve to reinforce your stupidity, bush-guy!

[David]

Dracut Retiree - wrote:

<quoted text> Your insults towards me roll off like water on a duck's back, your comments only serve to reinforce your stupidity, bush-guy!

Retiree...you should go to the Post Office and get checked for a hernia. I don't want the government anywhere close to my health care. You seem like a true Kool-Aid drinker.

[Dracut Retiree -]

David wrote:

<quoted text>
Retiree...you should go to the Post Office and get checked for a hernia. I don't want the government anywhere close to my health care. You seem like a true Kool-Aid drinker.

Well pal, it's no longer what you want!

[Eric Stratton III]

Dracut Retiree - wrote:

<quoted text>Well pal, it's no longer what you want!

lol, how typical, hey, you are a Union Guy right? "It's no longer what you want?" Wow! lol, how is that "ME, ME, I, I" attitude? Hey, DR, tell me what percent of our economy is going toward health right now and how the gov't is somehow going to SAVE us money? Hmm..better yet, tell me when the gov't has ever started a program that worked well, saved money and was efficient? The Military is the most efficient part of the Gov't and it is scary how much silly paper work, how inefficient it is but compared to the rest fo the gov't is is streamlined. Oh, what about Social Security? 32 cents of every dollar you pay into the Feds goes towards that, you think that somehow that health won't take just as much and yet SS is a joke? Seriously, how do you even claim to be alive, even a dead person could see the history and lack of logic behind letting the gov't get into this. I am guessing though that you are someone who thinks he is owed something just for being born here? As long as you get something, the heck with what it does down the line decades from now, I won't be here. Shocker, yet another self-absorbed, self-entitled baby boomer. Oh, Never answered the point about that I never said some of those things either that you claimed. The only thing my comments do is point out the truth, your past comments about the Somalian Pirates, your love of the Gov't speech laws, the gov't cameras, gov't health care, only prove that you are either a Sheep who wants the gov't to take of them or that you just do not understand how power and the gov't actually works. DR, I do not insult you, I dont need to, I point out the lack of fluid logic and your inability to think about the big picture.
Not much I can say that would ever change your mind, your only retorts are "Bush guy" and logic is not your forte so DR, all I can hope is that as you live long enough to see the silliness of the administration, how it will make us worse than the Carter Days and that his inabiility to act in a strong manner globally is only going to encourage others to act. I doubt you would admit that his ideas are ever a failure though, the Kool Aid is flowing down your throut like a firehose is pumping it.

[wow]

Dracut Retiree - wrote:

<quoted text>Well pal, it's no longer what you want!

We shall see about that.