Bank Robbery

[Curious One]

Does anyone remember Shannon Agofsky?

[KDuke21]

Curious One wrote:

Does anyone remember Shannon Agofsky?

Yeah, why?

[Curious One]

Just curious of anyone's views concerning the bank robbery. They are still fighting it.

[KDuke21]

They can fight it all they want, it won't do much good. Seeing as how he is now on death row for murdering an inmate (hmmm, seems to be a pattern here). He claims it was self defense but when you beat a guy to the ground and then smash his head in, "self defense" has absolutely no bearing on the situation.

[Karen]

I don't see it as a pattern at all. I think you would have to walk a mile in another man's shoes to understand truly where is is going and where he came from. To sit here in judgment of a man who defended himself against some prison thug is a stretch for someone who has probably never served a day in prison. How the hell would you know if he was defending himself or not? Were you there?

Nope. So...next.

[KDuke21]

Uh oh looks like I stumbled upon some Agofsky fans. You're right I have never served a day in prison, but in my defense I don't go around murdering people either. My family led me to believe that sort of thing was frowned upon, apparently his did not. And you're right again, I was not there, but thats the beauty of it, as long as you know where to go you can find damn near anything, for instance, and I quote, "In this case, a rational jury could find beyond a reasonable doubt that Agofsky intended (and in fact inflicted) more abuse than necessary to cause Plant's death. Agofsky's attack involved continued stomping of Plant's face and neck. The jurors heard eyewitness testimony that Agofsky stomped Plant's head and neck into the concrete "around 11" times. A medical examiner later confirmed that Plant's injuries were the result of "repeated blows". Furthermore, the correction officer who witnessed the end of the assault testified that Agofsky continued stomping Plant even after Plant lost consciousness...Based on the evidence above, the jury rationally could have found that Agofsky intended to inflict, and did inflict, greater suffering or mutiliation than necessary to cause death." Don't see anywhere where the so called "self defense" comes into play in such a violent action. I know what you're thinking and I agree, it sounds like something out of a horror movie, pretty gruesome isn't it.
So...next.

[Karen]

Um next?

Ok I'll give you next. Agofsky was put in a rec cage with 4 inmates who wanted him dead. Ya got that? DEAD. http://campusprogress.org/features/176/you-ar...

That is why I asked if you were there and knew the circumstances. Obviously, not. You spit out a knee jerk reaction because your judgment is already colored by his previous conviction. Have you ever bothered to educate yourself about prison corruption? Do you have any idea,while you sit there in your cushy little world-about what inmates face daily from the guards? I don't know about you but I really don't appreciate MY tax dollars supporting federal prisons that have run amok, with the wolf guarding the chicken coop and then inmates being sentenced to death for defending themselves. And I am a conservative!

Have you ever even read the juries statement? They found that Shannon Agofsky did not premeditate the killing and did not intend for Luther Plant to die-but yet they still gave him the death penalty. Interesting if you ask me.

[Karen]

Oh and let me also add that if you willingly pair up with 3 other inmates, with the intention of ganging up on another inmate...you pretty much get what you deserve-even if that means getting your freaking head stomped in. I have ZERO sympathy for Luther Plant. So, sorry-you're going to have to try to play the pity card on someone else. The guy was a thug who set a nightclub on fire and who had no compunction about joining in with three other thugs to kill another man.

[Karen]

Oh and just to get back on topic, my views on the bank robbery was Shannon and his brother were totally railroaded. Read John Grisham's The Innocent Man and you will find striking similarities between the brother's case and that of the men in the book-which is a true story. Why do you think it took the FBI 5 years to come up with the evidence to try them? Why do you think it took so many trials? Why do you think the jury hung in Joseph's trial? Why did Joyce Short fail a polygraph? Over a dozen people connected with the case have been murdered-including a cousin of the brother's, the game warden and a fellow inmate. The two were convicted on nothing more than the testimony of "snitches" and it is an absolute outrage that either served a day in prison for the crime.

[KDuke21]

Knee jerk reaction? Afraid not, if you'll notice I said, "and I quote" meaning that information came from somewhere else, such as official legal documentation. I'm not quoting myself. And no, I haven't "educated" myself on prison corruption. It's not like I majored in it in college, but I'm not completely ignorant on the subject either. There is corruption everywhere. I'm sure Shannon didn't premeditate the killing of Plant, however he sure as hell didn't stop smashing his head into the ground once Plant was knocked down/uncounscience/was no longer a threat. When you defend yourself, that's exactly what you do, defend yourself until you can safely escape the situation in which you are faced. Shannon kept going and going. If Shannon didn't intend for Plant to die he sure as hell has a funny way of beating someone with the intent of preserving their life. Of course they gave him the death penalty. He was a federal prisoner who committed murder. That's the punishment. Nothing interesting about it. Shannon's not a specail case, that's the punishment for any federal prisoner.
Who's playing a pitty card? If you think I'm a Luther Plant sympathizer you're sorely mistaken. I could care less about Plant. I'm sure he got what he had coming to him long ago.
So what does Grisham's book about an alcoholic drug addict ahve to do with the Agofsky brothers? Yeah it may be somewhat similiar, but so what. There are thousands of cases out there that police have to deal with that are similar.
5 years? So. There are investigations that go on for 10, 20, 30 plus years. There are some clever killers out there. Some don't get caught for over 30 years since they committed the crime(s), some never get caught. Gathering enough evidence to prosecute takes time. Speaking of evidence, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a bloody fingerprint of Shannon's found on Dan Short's vehicle and that's what linked him to the crime? Now that's interesting.

[KDuke21]

Ooops, I meant "unconscious" & "have" I was typing in a hurry.

[Karen]

First of all, no there as no bloody fingerprint. Read the trial transcripts. The FBI analyst testified on numerous occasions that the fingerprint on the DUCT tape did not match Shannon's print. Missouri refused to pick up the case, Arkansas refused to pick up the case and Keating pressured federal prosecutors to pick up the case in Oklahoma. Only during that trial did the FBI analyst testify the print was Shannon's and that was mere testimony since the evidence was by then conveniently "lost". There was never any direct forensic evidence-only testimony that such evidence existed, many years after the actual crime.
Please note I didn't say the "investigation" took 5 years. I deliberately did not say that word. It took the FBI 5+ years to finesse the evidence to fit their desired suspect. I have my doubts any real investigation took place. I notice you have no comment on Dan Short's wife failed a polygraph. No comment on the multiple people who have been murdered in connection with the crime, including Shannon's cousin Victor Cousatte. I mean really, if they really had Shannon's bloody fingerprint on the truck then why did it take so long to arrest, try and convict him? Seems to me that would be game over. You really ought to educate yourself about the case.

As far as Luther Plant goes-you're wrong there, too. You don't automatically get the DP when you kill a fellow inmate. Shannon did defend himself when faced with a situation where it was do or die. The other guy died as result of his injuries but he intended to hurt Shannon just as bad if not worse. Would you expect anything less from someone you knew and loved who was in danger and had the skills to defend themselves? You're a hypocrite and have shown your ignorance all over this page and quite frankly it nauseates me.

[Karen]

I left something out: you go on and on about how Shannon stomped his head into the ground "repeatedly". What the hell do you base this on? The testimony of the guard who put him in the rec cage with Plant?! I'm sorry but I regularly talk to Shannon and his family and know that case inside and out. There were no repeated stomps. Shannon is a highly trained martial arts expert and doesn't need to stomp repeatedly to disable a threat. There was no testimony to repeated stomps. The testimony from all who witnessed is:from the time Shannon turned to face Plant to the time he stopped hitting him to turn and face the other would be attackers 10 seconds had elapsed.

Now, I don't know about you but 10 seconds? I hardly see where he could have repeatedly stomped on this man's head in 10 seconds.

Bottom line: it was self defense and the prison has a well known history of inmate on inmate violence perpetuated and instigated by the GUARDS. He doesn't deserve to die. The punishment does not fit the crime. End of story.

[Taco]

Actually Karen, I knew Shannon for about four or five years prior to the murder of Dan Short, Allow me to fill you in on some info you may be lacking. Not only do I think that Shannon and Joseph are guilty, there are a few people that were more than likely involved that have escaped the scales of justice.
About the time of the killing their cousin Tony and {i can't remember if the other guy was a cousin or a friend, but his name was Gant} would make sporadic, visits to the dojo, One of the actually drove a van very similar to the one featured on the Unsolved Mysteries episode about Dan Short. Shannon would excuse himself and visit for 5-10 minutes out of earshot. Not very disciplined behavior for a martial arts instructor. Shannon had mentioned he had money troubles...he was selling some swords and other equipment several weeks before the robbery, several weeks after the robbery, He, his brother and several others ( I believe the before mentioned Tony and Gant) supposedly opened a martial arts supply store called The Emporium, most likely as a front for the money they stole. About a month after that he quit instructing the dojo, claiming that he had some other business interests. Turns out that other business interests was weapons trafficking, which he was arrested for. Not such an upstanding citizen now is he. Did you know that Dan's wife was Shannon's school teacher and that Shannon knew Dan personally. I seem to recall that someone had said that Dan was a cautious individual and would not have opened the door unless it was someone he knew, Now that's not a smoking gun by any means but it is interesting. What's more interesting is the conversation that I had with Shannon regarding at that time the disappearance of Dan Short and the bank robbery. It went something like :
ME: the news says that it was more than likely an amatuer job because the robbers took mostly change and small bills.(I seem to seeing recall a wad of 2 dollar bills in his mustang sometime later and remarking that I collected those..)
Shannon smiles what could only be described as a wry smile, which causes be to break conversation and ask "what" then as if realizing what had just transpired he shook his head as if to say "nothing" and once again was straight faced. I have played that conversation over and over again in my head and there is just no logical explanation for him to have a reaction like that. Now regarding the prison murder, If my memory serves me correctly he severely beat another inmate within an inch of his life prior to the Plant murder. Bad luck just seems to follow him around. Huh? I know that Shannon was sufficiently trained in the art of self defense, and that is what is drilled into your brain from day one is that it is only for defense, to know when he has rendered an man unconscious or incapacitated to the point of no longer being a threat. Plant is dead because that is what Shannon intended. Had he died from a single blow that information would have been made public by now and no jury could convict on a murder charge based off of one or two well placed blows.{having had the opportunity to see his fighting abilities first hand I know that he could have stopped most attackers with one or two well placed blows.} Anyway, just thought I'd weigh in here.-Taco

[KDuke21]

To Karen-
That's why I said to correct me if I'm wrong. Contrary to what everyone says I'm not right 100% of the time, just damn close. So if there was no real fingerprint then how did they link Shannon to the crime? Oh thats right, he had a roommate and family (huh, even close friends and family believed them guilty, so much for character credibility) member(s) testify against him that he and his brother frequently talked about said crime well before it happened and they were trying to score blueprints to the place since his dad remodeled it.

I didn't comment on Short's wife or the people who keep waking up dead because I don't know anything about that. But you do have me intrigued now, more please.

I need to educate myself on the case? You need to justify that one. Now why in the hell would I need to educate myself on the case? Will it further my career or give me better job opportunities with higher pay? Help me retire earlier or put my kids thru college? Maybe solve global warming or cure cancer? Educate myself on the case, come on now.

Riddle me this, back in the day I distinctly remember Shannon telling us that he was going to California to be a bodyguard for some celebrity. So dude is gone from Tuesday and Thursday Hwa Rang Do night training for a while, next thing we know is he and his brother are all over the news. What I don't get is this: Now understand that I haven't been a celebrity in California for quite some time but if I were and I needed to employ a bodyguard for whatever reason, why would I not hire a local professional service? Instead I get teenaged Shannon Agofsky from BFE Noel, MO, bodyguard for hire, who knows absolutely jackshit about being a professional bodyguard. Whom doesn't have any kind of certification and/or license. Before you know it, ol' dude is behind bars for the murder of Dan Short. Now isn't that odd? I wonder why none of that came up in the trial, because he never went to Cali. He was too busy plotting a murder/heist with his brother to do any type of bodyguarding.

I'm a hypocrite? How do you figure? Do you even understand the meaning of the word? Now if I sat here saying what I'm saying then go out and kidnap a bank president rob the bank and then chain him to a chair and toss his ass over a bridge then you can call me a hypocrite.

"Shannon is a highly trained martial arts expert and doesn't need to stomp repeatedly to disable a threat", thats what you said. So what you're saying is that a "martial arts expert" such as Shannon doesn't even posses the training and skills to stomp a person, or anything for that matter, 10-11 times in 10 seconds. If thats the case Shannon must be one piss poor expert of martial arts. I wouldn't consider myself an expert per say, but I sure as hell can stomp the snot out of something 10 times in as many seconds, especially if I was trying to save my own life which you claim Shannon was merely trying to do. If you honestly believe it when you say “I hardly see where he could have repeatedly stomped on this man’s head in 10 seconds.”, then you Karen are a complete imbecile and you have just displayed your ignorance. Now you're the hypocrite and have made me so nauseated that I just threw up a little in my mouth.

So educate me on Joseph, where is he at?

Fort Branch huh? Isn't that just a stones throw south of where Shannon is at in Terre Haute? How do I know I'm talking to "Karen" and this isn't Shannon himself?

[KDuke21]

To Karen-
That's why I said to correct me if I'm wrong. Contrary to what everyone says I'm not right 100% of the time, just damn close. So if there was no real fingerprint then how did they link Shannon to the crime? Oh thats right, he had a roommate and family (huh, even close friends and family believed them guilty, so much for character credibility) member(s) testify against him that he and his brother frequently talked about said crime well before it happened and they were trying to score blueprints to the place since his dad remodeled it.

I didn't comment on Short's wife or the people who keep waking up dead because I don't know anything about that. But you do have me intrigued now, more please.

I need to educate myself on the case? You need to justify that one. Now why in the hell would I need to educate myself on the case? Will it further my career or give me better job opportunities with higher pay? Help me retire earlier or put my kids thru college? Maybe solve global warming or cure cancer? Educate myself on the case, come on now.

Riddle me this, back in the day I distinctly remember Shannon telling us that he was going to California to be a bodyguard for some celebrity. So dude is gone from Tuesday and Thursday Hwa Rang Do night training for a while, next thing we know is he and his brother are all over the news. What I don't get is this: Now understand that I haven't been a celebrity in California for quite some time but if I were and I needed to employ a bodyguard for whatever reason, why would I not hire a local professional service? Instead I get teenaged Shannon Agofsky from BFE Noel, MO, bodyguard for hire, who knows absolutely jacksquat about being a professional bodyguard. Whom doesn't have any kind of certification and/or license. Before you know it, ol' dude is behind bars for the murder of Dan Short. Now isn't that odd? I wonder why none of that came up in the trial, because he never went to Cali. He was too busy plotting a murder/heist with his brother to do any type of bodyguarding.

I'm a hypocrite? How do you figure? Do you even understand the meaning of the word? Now if I sat here saying what I'm saying then go out and kidnap a bank president rob the bank and then chain him to a chair and toss him over a bridge then you can call me a hypocrite.

"Shannon is a highly trained martial arts expert and doesn't need to stomp repeatedly to disable a threat", thats what you said. So what you're saying is that a "martial arts expert" such as Shannon doesn't even posses the training and skills to stomp a person, or anything for that matter, 10-11 times in 10 seconds. If thats the case Shannon must be the worst expert of martial arts ever. I wouldn't consider myself an expert per say, but I sure as hell can stomp the snot out of something 10 times in as many seconds, especially if I was trying to save my own life which you claim Shannon was merely trying to do. If you honestly believe it when you say “I hardly see where he could have repeatedly stomped on this man’s head in 10 seconds.”, then you Karen are a complete imbecile and you have just displayed your ignorance. Now you're the hypocrite and have made me so nauseated that I just threw up a little in my mouth.

So educate me on Joseph, where is he at?

Fort Branch huh? Isn't that just a stones throw south of where Shannon is at in Terre Haute? How do I know I'm talking to "Karen" and this isn't Shannon himself?

[Taco]

-KDuke21

Fort Branch...Terre Haute. That's pretty coincidental. Shannon even has an about me web page. Just Google his name and you'll find it. So if he has access to the net to put up a web page, he could very likely have access to fine fact filled website like Topix.net . Hmmm I wonder if he changed his name to Karen or if that was his cell mates doing?

[Curious One]

Shannon did attend and was the youngest graduate from ESI in Aspen Colorado. He was a trained bodyguard. Kduke when you refer to "Tony" do you mean his cousin Tony Cousatte? Gant Sanders and Mike Dean were two of his buddies at the time, both were strange individuals. I always wondered what had happened to Niki Cousatte she just kinda dissappeared after 91. She lived with the Agofsky's prior to that. Was Victor Cousatte Niki's dad and what were the circumstances of his death? I was recently contacted by a Forensic Socioligist who is working on the appeal of Shannon's death penalty. And she is fully convinced that Shannon is innocent of the bank robbery. She claimed that when a brutal crime such as Dan's murder is committed there is always something in the guilty person's past. And with Shannon she hasn't found any signs from his childhood that someday he would commit a violent act. I was close to Shannon after the bank robbery. I always wondered why the FBI never came and questioned any of us.Also employee of the Noel Bank at the time, who was present at all the trials and witnessed all the evidence has personnaly told me that they dont believe Shannon and Joe committed the crime. I am not convinced of thier guilt or innocence. I do believe there is more to the story.Taco I assume you spent some time training with the Edmondsons?

[Taco]

~Curious One...
Yeah I trained with Darrell and Gerald both. I half heartedly agree with you, maybe Shannon and Joe did not actually toss Dan off the bridge, but I do think that they were involved. I don't know if Cousatte is Tony's last name but I'd recognize him if I saw him. There is definitely more to the story and it more than likely is known by the people surrounding the Agofsky's mentioned in the previous posts. Do you know if the evidence suggests the time frame between the bank robbery and the time Dan was dumped into the lake? I remember, always believed that he was held hostage for more than a few days until they really had no choice but to kill him, but that was just my thought. I would be interested to see what the forensics say about that. Regarding the Forensic Socioligist, I know that she doesn't mean that everyone who commits murder drowned puppies as a kid, but really whose to say that killing Dan was not that thing in his past that indicated he would again commit a violent act? Hence the subsequent murdering of inmate Plant. The mere fact that he murdered someone in prison leads to believe that he had the capability to kill before. What does the Socioligist say regarding the murderer of Mr. Plant?

[Taco]

Sorry for the spelling errors, and grammatical errors, I was typing in a hurry.