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That is Rich
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OK, let me get this straight, Just the Facts knows everything there is to know about the accident, and thinks As is a fake and a liar but sounds exactly like someone else we all know and don't like? How am I doing so far Sensible?
I for one have never seen one single thing that AS wrote that was untrue. Unkind? Yes. Deserved? Yes. And I think I am in a position to know. Doug knows who I am so I am not posting entirely anonymously.
As far as the accident, there were several people that saw Bobby being pulled from the driver's side of that vehicle. It is true that once the crowd got large they were made to move back pretty far but not in the beginning.
AS "YOU ROCK!"
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Sensible
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You're dead on, Rich. Just The Facts Jenn just can't stay away...
I know I'm not going to get an example of a lie.
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That is Rich
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Just the facts wrote: You were there when they pulled him out of the vehicle? How is that possible? No one is allowed near an accident scene where life flight is involved. You go on and on about how close you are to one of the families yet you don't know how I would know that no follow up tests were done?
Bobby was in a coma for approx. 2 weeks. You do know what a coma is, right? The RUMOR that he may not have been driving came from his family and his attorney, and only because the final police report had not been completed. Any defense attorney would have used this tactic, it is not uncommon. I don't agree with it, but that is not my child being defended either. Did Bobby tell you that he was not driving, maybe as he was pulled out of the jeep and onto a stretcher? Or maybe he told you he wasn't driving while they were putting him on life flight, since you must be a very important person to be allowed in the middle of an accident scene, especially one as horrific as this one.
Actually, NO ONE was allowed anywhere near the accident scene; the police and firefighters were continually moving the crowd back further and further from the tracks.
The girls did know, just as they knew they were busted while on their way back to the grandmother's house, before loosing their lives.
Does it make them criminal? No, I do not believe so.
Knowing about the blood tests is a simple matter of public information. This was discussed at the hearing to decide if Bobby would be charged as an adult or a juvenile. Had the prosecutor been able to prove that he was in fact, notice I said FACT, under the influence while driving and hitting the train, then the chances that he would be standing trial as an adult would have been much greater.
Do you know his mother personally? Would you have the gall to say to her the hateful things you say on here? Who put you in charge of judging others?
It is people like you that smear the memories of all of these kids. Whether you like Bobby or Blake is not the issue, they have family and friends who care a great deal about them, just as Collete, Austin, Loral and Macy do. It is people like you who cannot move on, away from gossip and rumors so the people actually related to these children can heal and maybe one day, find some peace.
I've read your posts, and for someone close to one of the families, you get most of your information from this forum. The one you claim to be close to had a baby and you found out on here.
I seriously doubt you have any relationship with anyone related to this accident. Actually, NO ONE was allowed anywhere near the accident scene; the police and firefighters were continually moving the crowd back further and further from the tracks. (How would you know this Just, if you were not there and don't know any of the people involved? Just wondering.
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Sensible
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I think you're not gonna get an answer...
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Just the facts
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It is the coolest thing, its called reading. There is some comprehension involved as well.
If you can read and comprehend, and follow some simple diagrams, it isn't hard to understand what was going on, who was where, etc.
I do not know this woman, Jen, you keep referring to, although I have read this entire topic. If you are friends with someone in the family, then you could very easily ask them to verify what I said about Bobby.
If you need to insist that I am her, ok.
It does not make any difference to me what you have said or continue to say about her. But, being mean and gossiping about her, Bobby's mother, his family, the Moyer girls fathers, Blake and his family is wrong. Who benefits from that? You, the ones on here doing it, the families that could be reading it, the friends of the kids that are gone?
If you would like to talk about facts and discuss the case that will be starting soon, I am up for that.
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Sensible
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Actually, I am wholly unaware that there was a report made public that said the hospital didn't conduct any further drug and alcohol tests. Could you find that link and post it here? I do remember hearing about the pot, but not the meth.
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Sensible
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I'm finding a lot of media reports about the drugs in Bobby's system, but nothing that says he was tested 1 1/2 hours after the crash and nothing that says no further follow up tests were conducted. That's quite a level of detail you managed to get out of some news report!
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Sensible
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That is Rich
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I am also a little confused about something else, I have re-read AS Sensibles replies to Just the Facts 1st post a couple of times and nowhere did I see anything that AS typed that could cause the kind of animosity that Just came back with. Just, do you really get that angry if someone questions what you have said? Or is it AS you have a problem with? Who would want to have a discussion with you if that is the way you respond?
If you truly don't know any of the parties involved, then why does it matter to you to the point that you feel you must defend or attack someone else on this subject?
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Just the facts
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I really don't want to split hairs but if he tested positive for drugs then in my opinion, he was under the influence. Also, I am assuming that you have read the police reports but since the dead kids can't defend themselves against these two fine upstanding young men, I prefer to believe that the girls did not know. I think if the two survivors lips are moving .... you know the rest. Especially the driver Bobby, he did not fall far from his mama's tree when it comes to lying.
That post, right there, is where my "animosity" comes from (your words not mine)
I put out a post describing details about Bobby and his condition after the accident because a different poster stated he was under the influence. This As person began questioning me, and while asking questions, this As person said some things about two of the kids in the accident, and one of their mothers that I think is wrong for anyone to do. Since As was the one to respond to me, I responded back. As I said before, I read this entire topic, and there are many, many posts from As (and others) that are cruel to the family members and the surviving children of this accident. If I remember correctly, this As person even spoke ugly about your friend, something about going in and out of rehab, or hiding in rehab-you can go look for yourself. I guess that is where this "animosity" comes from.
Bobby and Blake and their families should be allowed to try and put their lives back together. Unless As is one of the parents who lost a child, I think that what he/she is doing, along with some other posters on here is wrong.
Why this matters to me isn't and shouldn't be important. Going along with gossip and rumors and writing hateful things about people who lost their children is more important-it should stop, don't you think?
It angers me to watch memories and lives being hurt by people who seem to have nothing better to do but be nasty.
I have lost my own child and he was killed by a driver who was high. My child snuck out of the house and he never came back. The boy who was driving was not tested a second time to determine if he was high when they crashed. Maybe if the hospital had done their job, the boy who was driving may have received a harsher punishment. I have had people that I do not know question my parenting, gossip and spread rumors-very similar to what I am seeing here-having been on the receiving end of cruelness, I think it should stop. Unless you have been in this position, you cannot understand.\
If people in my town would have just talked about the facts, alot less hurt would have been avoided.
I am interested in this case because of the similarities.
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That is Rich
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The boy who was driving was not tested a second time to determine if he was high when they crashed. Maybe if the hospital had done their job, the boy who was driving may have received a harsher punishment.
So, don't you think he should be able to put his life back together like Bobby and Blake?
Maybe you are a decent person, who knows, some of the parents in the Baytown tragedy are very fine people, and then some of them deserve every harsh word directed at them. Sorry, but this is a forum for everyone. If you don't like what is being said, then don't read and don't post. No one is forcing you. Having said, that, I am sorry for you loss as I am for the loss of the 4 in Baytown.
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That is Rich
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You may not like AS or the things that have been said on here, but I will tell you and others will agree, that this is one of the finest people I have ever known, very blunt spoken, yes but if you are down on your luck and your car breaks, AS will either get your car fixed or buy you a new one, no questions asked. I have seen this several times in my life.
If you need food, AS will empty their own pantry, freezer, refrigerator and bring it all to you or take you to the store and let you fill the basket with whatever you need and pay for it. I know because I have seen this several times in my life.
AS has taken this accident very hard and does have some harsh opinions about some of the parties involved. But I agree with everthing that has been said and there is not one lie come from AS.
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Sensible
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I am also a little confused about something else, I have re-read AS Sensibles replies to Just the Facts 1st post a couple of times and nowhere did I see anything that AS typed that could cause the kind of animosity that Just came back with. Just, do you really get that angry if someone questions what you have said? Or is it AS you have a problem with? Who would want to have a discussion with you if that is the way you respond?
__________
I noticed that as well.
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Sensible
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That post, right there, is where my "animosity" comes from (your words not mine)
I put out a post describing details about Bobby and his condition after the accident because a different poster stated he was under the influence. This As person began questioning me, and while asking questions, this As person said some things about two of the kids in the accident, and one of their mothers that I think is wrong for anyone to do. Since As was the one to respond to me, I responded back. As I said before, I read this entire topic, and there are many, many posts from As (and others) that are cruel to the family members and the surviving children of this accident. If I remember correctly, this As person even spoke ugly about your friend, something about going in and out of rehab, or hiding in rehab-you can go look for yourself. I guess that is where this "animosity" comes from.
Bobby and Blake and their families should be allowed to try and put their lives back together. Unless As is one of the parents who lost a child, I think that what he/she is doing, along with some other posters on here is wrong.
Why this matters to me isn't and shouldn't be important. Going along with gossip and rumors and writing hateful things about people who lost their children is more important-it should stop, don't you think?
It angers me to watch memories and lives being hurt by people who seem to have nothing better to do but be nasty.
I have lost my own child and he was killed by a driver who was high. My child snuck out of the house and he never came back. The boy who was driving was not tested a second time to determine if he was high when they crashed. Maybe if the hospital had done their job, the boy who was driving may have received a harsher punishment. I have had people that I do not know question my parenting, gossip and spread rumors-very similar to what I am seeing here-having been on the receiving end of cruelness, I think it should stop. Unless you have been in this position, you cannot understand.\
If people in my town would have just talked about the facts, alot less hurt would have been avoided.
I am interested in this case because of the similarities.
__________
My heart aches for any parent who has lost a child. Having said that, my very own "There's a fake 1,000 miles away" alarm just went off.
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Just the facts
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I don't know As or anyone on this topic. I am sure there are alot of people who think highly of them. But I know firt hand how it feels to be talked about, gossiped about and have rumors spread about. When you lose your child, your whole world breaks, nothing makes sense and all you want to do is turn the clock back. It has been 3 years since my son was killed and it still feels like yesterday when the police came to my door at 5:06am and told me my baby was gone.
No one has the right to say the things that have been said about family members, even if they are good people otherwise. That does not make it right.
The boy who was driving is serving his time and he will have the chance to rebuild his life, and most days I am glad for his family. Some days, I am not. Most days I understand that my baby was needed in heaven, and this boy has things left to do. Some days, I just want my baby back.
I know how Bobby's mother feels, how the fathers of the girls feel, how the girls mothers feel-
Instead of saying hurtful and hateful things-just talk about the facts-about what happened-and be happy it did not happen to you.
That is my point.
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Hector
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Their innocence will bring them back to life, where they will serve out their penance in the local Wal-Mart and then they will flower as local petals of the flower of love and understanding.
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AS Sensible as You
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Just, if you truly are not Jen, then I am sorry for your loss. But, you have called me a liar, a mean person, a gossip, a fake, implied that I am so stupid and I don't even know what a coma is. So I guess you are not any better than me huh? KMA
Rich, thanks for the kind words but don't out me ok?
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Just the facts
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I am a mother, a wife, a sister, an aunt, a good friend-I am lots of things and I never said I was better than you.
You (I am assuming from your posts) did not lose your child to this tragedy. I read somewhere that you are taking the loss hard, which I read as maybe you are related. Your constant posts to the stepmom, mean and rude remarks about the fathers of the girls, ugly comments about the boys who survived and their families...if you can't see that what you (and others) are doing is hurtful, wrong, and nothing good can possibly come out of doing this, then nothing I say (as a mother who has lost her son and knows the pain, lives the pain everyday) is going to make a difference. And that is sad, because it was put on my heart to post here, to try and help the people being cruel and mean to maybe see from an outsiders point of view how hurtful and wrong it is to say what has been said here.
It does not matter if the people that you have said those mean things to are terrible people. At the end of the day, they are people who have lost their child and being mean/cruel/spreading gossip about them just rubs salt in a wound that you know nothing about.
I probably was out of line in some of the things I said to you. I let my own painful memories of having to deal with rumors and gossip get to me.
I have seen where you attack those that don't agree with the hateful things that you say about some of the family members. I do not agree with what you are doing either. You are taking away from the 4 children who are gone by gossiping. I do not know how else to explain it-I just don't see any justification for posting some of the horrible things on this topic (and it isn't just you, As, not by a long shot).
As a mom who still grieves for her baby, who still smells his shirts and sheets trying to remember how good he smelled. For a mom who had to go to graduation this year for her niece and just wanted to crawl under the bleachers and die because I didn't get to see my boy graduate, for a mom who won't see her son go to college, get married, have babies-please stop being hateful to these few family members you feel deserve the treatment that you are giving them.
No one deserves to lose their child, no one.
And I am sorry that my posts are long if that offends anyone.
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AS Sensible as You
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If you don't like what is said on here then don't read and don't post. I have my opinion and you have yours. The truth can be very painful to hear and most people, you included, don't really like hearing it. It makes you feel bad. It hurts your feelings, well you know what? I don't care. There has been nothing I have said on here that I would not say to the faces of the people involved and much worse actually to a couple of them given the chance. But none of it would be a lie.
That is one of the problems with this world now that no one is supposed to get their feelings hurt by the truth even though hearing it might get them to change their behavior. Probably not, but again, I don't care if I hurt their feelings or not.
There are some of the parents involved in this that are extremely decent people and my heart breaks for them. The others, especially the drunks and druggies who directly or indirectly influenced this behavior in their children can either straighten up for the children they have left, or continue to be the objects of ridicule(sp) by me and many others. What people on earth have said about them is nothing compared to what God will have to say to them when the time comes.
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AS Sensible as You
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'Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'
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