Landis Lawyer Offers Dehydration Defe...

Landis Lawyer Offers Dehydration Defense

There are 73 comments on the The Associated Press story from Aug 3, 2006, titled Landis Lawyer Offers Dehydration Defense . In it, The Associated Press reports that:

Dehydration is the latest possible reason offered for Tour de France winner Floyd Landis' elevated testosterone levels.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Associated Press.

Insider

Oxford, UK

#41 Aug 6, 2006
California wrote:
I stand behind the desire to have the sport of cycling outlaw drug cheats, but it is time to realize that there are challenges to make procedures to find cheating that do not take away the trophies from the champions mistakenly. This is why many are thinking that an innocent until proven guilty approach is appropriate. This is the protection against procedures and bureaucracy run amok.
I think we would all like to have something that is perfect, and maybe one day we will. Unfortunately, the test people can only work with what they have at any given time. Drugs advance quicker than the tests specs, so the tests will always lag behind. What we have is better than nothing.

Anyone that advocates a 'free for all' drug wise, needs to see the sad picture of juniors taking drugs. That happens in some places I've been, with self egotistical parents being suppliers.
e reade

UK

#42 Aug 6, 2006
Maybe there is another explanation other than drug taking for floy landis having a high testosterone level. People with high testosterone levels (hot blooded men) are more prone to prostate cancer. Maybe floyd should have a PSA test to rule this out. It would explain the high levels in his blood.
Wayne

United States

#43 Aug 6, 2006
T - San Diego wrote:
Elevated T? No - Elevated E!! Even the news wires have it wrong....
..and so do you.

An elevated T/E ratio could be explained by higher T, lower E, or a combination of both. If E were zero, the T/E ratio would be infinite.

If E were elevated, as you claim, the T/E ratio would be LOWER.

---Salem Oregon---
Wayne

United States

#44 Aug 6, 2006
South Texas Racer wrote:
Hey C-La,
If Landis' testosterone was so incredibly high on stage 17, it still would have been elevated for days after as well. Why did he not test positive before or after that stage?
He didn't because the test was botched. Just like that same lab botched Armstrong's tests.
And I don't even like Armstrong.
Aug 6

Do we know that Landis was tested for T/E before and after Stage 17? I know he was tested, but for what?

Judging by how long it took the LNDD lab to test Floyd's T/E on Stage 17, I get the impression that this test is lengthy and difficult; perhaps it is not used regularly.

Does anyone have info that can tell us how many times Floyd's T/E was tested and which stages? Also, who else was tested for T/E???

thanks

---Salem Oregon---
Speedog

Fort Mcmurray, Canada

#45 Aug 6, 2006
Wayne wrote:
<quoted text>
Probably true...in France, don't they prefer the guillotine???
---Salem Oregon---
Now that's an intelligent comment.
Harvestmark

Redwood City, CA

#46 Aug 6, 2006
Please read the story of Paolo Pezzo here.
http://classic.mountainzone.com/news/pezzo3.h ...
Ari Cheren, Mountain Zone Correspondent Follow-up Stories:
[Doubts over Guilt][Charges Cleared][Pezzo Exonerated]
The same Chatenay-Malabry lab. was involved !
A case of false positive !
Not one newspaper in the world has mentioned this. I found this after 2 hours of searching !
As a lab scientist we know the flaws !. This is the same Chatenay-Malabry lab that is involved in the Landis case !
All hospital labs have quarterly proficiency testing. Even the best of hospitals in the US have failed sometimes in certain analyte testing .
I wonder whether this commercial laboratory undergoes any kind of quality control and /or external proficiency testing !!
Sincerely
Harvestmark
Will

United States

#47 Aug 6, 2006
Harvestmark wrote:
Please read the story of Paolo Pezzo here.
http://classic.mountainzone.com/news/pezzo3.h ...
� Ari Cheren, Mountain Zone Correspondent Follow-up Stories:
[Doubts over Guilt][Charges Cleared][Pezzo Exonerated]
The same Chatenay-Malabry lab. was involved !
A case of false positive !
Not one newspaper in the world has mentioned this. I found this after 2 hours of searching !
As a lab scientist we know the flaws !. This is the same Chatenay-Malabry lab that is involved in the Landis case !
All hospital labs have quarterly proficiency testing. Even the best of hospitals in the US have failed sometimes in certain analyte testing .
I wonder whether this commercial laboratory undergoes any kind of quality control and /or external proficiency testing !!
Sincerely
Harvestmark
I appreciate your point on quality control & its role in diminishing false positive tests but, with all due respect, that's NOT what's at issue here in the Landis case. Landis & his team have NOT claimed that the there was any false positive test, nor have they claimed that any Chatenay lab's quality control failure was the cause of any false positive test. Instead, Landis ACCEPTS the numbers but DISPUTES how those numbers are to be interpreted in his particular case--that the numbers represent his NORMAL PHYSIOLOGY WITHOUT THE ADDITION OF PROHIBITED PERFORMANCE-ENHANCING SUBSTANCES.

It is only the conspiracy theorists and other extreme Landis supporters who are trying to dispute the testing procedures and the results they produced--Landis is NOT disputing these procedures and resulting numbers.

Landis & his team ARE trying to make an issue of the LEAKS of these results by anonymous sources from the lab; however, while these leaks may have been unprofessional and procedurally improper, THEY HAVE PROVED SO FAR NOT TO HAVE BEEN INACCURATE, SO THEIR PREMATURE DISCLOSURE BY A FEW DAYS HAS NOT SUBSTANTIALLY HARMED LANDIS IN MY OPINION.
Will

United States

#48 Aug 6, 2006
P.S. -- HARVESTMARK, the link in your comment appears to be a dead link.
mag_usa

Riverhead, NY

#49 Aug 6, 2006
Will wrote:
P.S.-- HARVESTMARK, the link in your comment appears to be a dead link.
try this one:
http://classic.mountainzone.com/news/pezzo3.h...
MichaelG

Louisville, KY

#50 Aug 7, 2006
mag_usa

Riverhead, NY

#51 Aug 7, 2006
Will wrote:
<quoted text>It is only the conspiracy theorists and other extreme Landis supporters who are trying to dispute the testing procedures and the results they produced--Landis is NOT disputing these procedures and resulting numbers.
Landis & his team ARE trying to make an issue of the LEAKS of these results by anonymous sources from the lab; however, while these leaks may have been unprofessional and procedurally improper, THEY HAVE PROVED SO FAR NOT TO HAVE BEEN INACCURATE, SO THEIR PREMATURE DISCLOSURE BY A FEW DAYS HAS NOT SUBSTANTIALLY HARMED LANDIS IN MY OPINION.
great point... the only thing the leaks are doing is giving us something to talk about.

it does seem that he testing methodology and venue are in question, and several writers have posted requesting a "double blind", 2 lab scenario and tighter controls on the information flow, but the likelyhood of that happening is almost nill, i fear.

you have WADA, the UCI, the IOC, the USADA, the ASO, the LNND lab, and the sponsors, teams, and riders. as wide a group of different interests as i've seen in while... the task is to get them all to sit down around the same time together and agree on:
the problem in specific,
a reasonable series of workable solutions, beneficial to all parties,
a reasonable timeframe,
a sound maintainance infrastrucure to keep it going,
a group to act as control...

holy crap! that sounds like the U.N. and we've seen how they work... put together all those interests, egos, agendas and personal politics and that scares the hell out of me....

a compromise might appear as early as the Tour 2047, which is rumored to start in Boise, Idaho after being boughtby an American controlling interest, supposedly the Lance Armstrong Foundation...
Frank C

Hudson, NY

#52 Aug 7, 2006
It's simple for me. Anything related to a French lab or any results related to France in any way is crap. Why? Because the French are jealous that the Tour de France is an American-dominated sport. Even if Landis is stripped and the winner is Spanish, he isn't American. Summary? France sucks!
Raymond France

Aix-en-provence, France

#53 Aug 7, 2006
Frank C wrote:
It's simple for me. Anything related to a French lab or any results related to France in any way is crap. Why? Because the French are jealous that the Tour de France is an American-dominated sport. Even if Landis is stripped and the winner is Spanish, he isn't American. Summary? France sucks!
What a pathetic ill informed attitude. Written in the language of the ignorant. All the Tdf want is that whoever wins, does not win with the aid of dope. The American cycling union will decide in the Landis case. I suggest we all await the outcome of this process.
Chris

UK

#54 Aug 7, 2006
Frank C wrote:
It's simple for me. Anything related to a French lab or any results related to France in any way is crap. Why? Because the French are jealous that the Tour de France is an American-dominated sport. Even if Landis is stripped and the winner is Spanish, he isn't American. Summary? France sucks!
Absolute rubbish! Why on earth do you think the French would want to see the TDF ruined in this way? to see a rider from the USA be Disqualified ? Don't write rubbish. The French are very well informed regarding drug tests.

This 'win at all costs' and 'money' is ruining sport.

Face it there was something in Floyd's body that should NOT have been there
have you been to France? Do you know where it is?
Will

United States

#55 Aug 7, 2006
mag_usa wrote:
<quoted text>...it does seem that he testing methodology and venue are in question,....
you have WADA, the UCI, the IOC, the USADA, the ASO, the LNND lab, and the sponsors, teams, and riders. as wide a group of different interests as i've seen in while... the task is to get them all to sit down around the same time together and agree on:
the problem in specific,
a reasonable series of workable solutions, beneficial to all parties,
a reasonable timeframe,
a sound maintainance infrastrucure to keep it going,
a group to act as control...
....a compromise might appear as early as the Tour 2047, which is rumored to start in Boise, Idaho after being boughtby an American controlling interest, supposedly the Lance Armstrong Foundation...
No, mag, the testing methodology and venue are NOT SERIOUSLY in question--not, that is, by Landis, only by the conspiracy theorists and extreme Landis supporters, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE STANDING IN THIS PROCESS TO RAISE ISSUES WHICH HAVE NOT ALREADY BEEN RAISED BY LANDIS.

And I would also disagree with your analysis that sponsors, teams and riders have to be at the table in order to reach agreement with the other sanctioning organizations and anti-doping labs you mentioned; I see it this way: the sponsors are neutral parties and in fact have a commercial interest in having a cleaner sport, so they'd likely go along with whatever the sanctioning groups and labs decided.

The teams and riders, to the extent they SUPPORT doping and the status quo, are adversaries to the anti-doping efforts and , in my opinion (agree with me or not) their input should be CONSIDERED but is NOT CONTROLLING, SINCE TEAM PARTICIPATION & RIDER PARTICIPATION IN SANCTIONED EVENTS IS VOLUNTARY. NO TEAM AND NO RIDER IS INDISPENSABLE TO ANY SANCTIONED EVENT, AND IF THE TEAMS/RIDERS ANY DOPING RULES WORKED OUT AND IMPOSED BY THE SANCTIONING BODIES AND LABS, THEN THOSE RIDERS ARE INDEED FREE TO SET UP THEIR OWN "NON-DRUG-TESTED BUT UNSANCTIONED" EVENTS.

...which brings me to your Boise Tour 2047.... ;-)
Will

United States

#56 Aug 7, 2006
edit/correction:

...AND IF THE TEAMS/RIDERS FIND ANY DOPING RULES WORKED OUT AND IMPOSED BY THE SANCTIONING BODIES AND LABS TO BE TOO ONEROUS, THEN THOSE TEAMS/RIDERS ARE INDEED FREE TO SET UP THEIR OWN "NON-DRUG-TESTED BUT UNSANCTIONED" EVENTS....
mag_usa

Riverhead, NY

#57 Aug 7, 2006
Will wrote:
<quoted text>
A: the testing methodology and venue are NOT SERIOUSLY in question

B: sponsors, teams and riders have to be at the table in order to reach agreement with the other sanctioning organizations and anti-doping labs

C:...which brings me to your Boise Tour 2047.... ;-)
A: they are if you consider all the facts. allegedly the lab was using a test discarded by no less than the Olympics Committee & has been publicly criticize here and abroad for being too free with confidential information.

B: the sponsors want their jersey on the top step. the sponsors are (in most cases) huge corportations. the key is the bottom line. Enron, World Com, General Dynamics... sound familiar? Ford maitaions a squeaky clean image while firing 36,000 workers globally. yeah, i trust these guys. i've worked for some of the bigger ones and believe it or not, there's LOTS of behind the scenes dealing. my point in bringing them to the table was more to act as a warning that not unethical behavior will be tolerated and here's their chance to join in the set up of what is or is not allowed. with THAT much money at stake, it's a good idea to keep a close eye on all the players.

C: the Tour start has been moved from Boise to Glen Falls NY and will end in San Luis Obispo, overheard from a "good" source....
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

United States

#58 Jul 23, 2009
Raymond France wrote:
The B test results have been released. Landis and any other rider using dope should be banned for life. This would clean up the sport! No weak excuses, no second chances. Nobody involed in sport should be proud of winning by cheating. This only lowers sport to the level of politics
Interesting when surfing around in the achives of the Floyd Landis Forum.

Since Raymond had admitted to all of us that he knew who was cheating and doping, while he was also a rider (Professional & Amateur), than I believe that Raymonf should also be banned from cycling for life.

After all, why didn't he report those who he knew was cheating and doping?
Gus

Vancouver, Canada

#59 Jul 23, 2009
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting when surfing around in the achives of the Floyd Landis Forum.
Since Raymond had admitted to all of us that he knew who was cheating and doping, while he was also a rider (Professional & Amateur), than I believe that Raymonf should also be banned from cycling for life.
After all, why didn't he report those who he knew was cheating and doping?
...maybe he was getting Kick-Backs!!!

“Carpe Diem”

Since: Mar 07

Bristol UK

#60 Jul 24, 2009
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting when surfing around in the achives of the Floyd Landis Forum.
Since Raymond had admitted to all of us that he knew who was cheating and doping, while he was also a rider (Professional & Amateur), than I believe that Raymonf should also be banned from cycling for life.
After all, why didn't he report those who he knew was cheating and doping?
Maybe Raymond or (Raymonf!) did report them

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