more enhancement millage bs!

more enhancement millage bs!

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Since: Jan 11

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#1 Jan 2, 2013
"Regional enhancement millage 'is critical' for AMA ESD". I'll just bet it is.(Alpena News, Jan.2, 2013). NO MORE TAXES. Don't be fooled by this 'Enhancement". With enrollment down in the schools, why do they need this 'enhancement' money? You can guess. 10 years of raised taxes? Vote NO. We must stop this! Too much money generated for administration. This money will NOT help the education of students. Taxpayer beware of "silver tongued devils". It's already been stated this money can be used for "whatever they see fit". Bad move. VOTE NO.
Murphy

Alpena, MI

#2 Jan 2, 2013
My problem with this millage is the fact the schools lost around $500 per pupil through State/Federal funding yet this Enhancement millage, if past, will generate approximately $10000 per pupil (greed). Coupled with the fact that this money can be used by each district as they see fit and it's for 10 years. I'm spreading the word that this is just not right!!
Just the facts

Alpena, MI

#3 Jan 2, 2013
Please find out at least some facts to base your vote on. The millage doesn't generate 10,000 per student simply doing the math could show you that. The schools have lost funding from the state and the biggest problem they face is retirement costs. When there were twice as many students there was twice as many teachers. Now we have to pay those retirement costs out of the school funds. They were paid for previously but the Republican leadership under former Governor Engler looted the pension fund and never repaid it. You can vote however you see fit but if you have a student in school like me there education will suffer without this funding. If you are a homeowner your values will decrease without quality schools and the local economy will not attract companies. Large employers don't expand in areas with poor schools that can't produce talent for them to employ. This millage only helps you if 1 you have children in school, you own property or a business or you care about the economic future of this area.
Acchsalum

Alpena, MI

#4 Jan 2, 2013
Just the facts must work for the schools. First off the amount raised is $1,018 a head, yet the cut is $400 a head. First I heard of John Engler raided the retirment fund, one would think Jenny would have refilled it. Remember a teacher can retire at age 49 at 45% of pay. We also pay if you have an advanced degree, so a teacher with a Master in math, gets paid as much as a teacher with a Master in running a school. Alpena pays part of the tution so teachers can get a Masters.

Alpena also pays for development hours the state mandates for teachers, what do you think inservice is? People in other jobs that have educational hours mandated by the state have to pay for thiers. Just ask some one who is an engineer.

Lots of propaganda will be coming out, but ask yourself how much is true. When a letter was printed last spring in The Alpena News over half the kids on one school sports team, had parents working for the school system, people knocked the writer, not is it was true(which it was).

Look at the way the schools try to explain team teacher, how about one teacher in the room. Alpena could save over $450,000 if they did away with team teaching, which is a way to hide a bad teacher.

I don't doubt the schools could use more money, we all could, but people here ahve taken paycuts, have had to pay more then 20% for insurance, why not those at the public trough??
Horace Mann

Mio, MI

#5 Jan 2, 2013
The employees working for APS have had an increase in insurance premiums and also had to decide whether to pay more of their own money for their pension, freeze it or reduce it. I agree that business people will look at schools, hospitals and "quality of life" factors when deciding where to locate, expand or build. A strong school system that takes care of their buildings and facilities helps to create a positive environment.
Acchsalum

Alpena, MI

#6 Jan 2, 2013
What a shock, APS employees have to pay more for health insurance. Welcome to the real world. As one who is self employed I apy 100%. I know my cost will go up on renewal in May.

People with 401K retirements pay into them. You will find few retirement plans like APS does.

Business people also look at tax cost, if I can go some where and pay guess in taxes, what choice is there?
cora

Fennville, MI

#7 Jan 2, 2013
Just the facts wrote:
Please find out at least some facts to base your vote on. The millage doesn't generate 10,000 per student simply doing the math could show you that. The schools have lost funding from the state and the biggest problem they face is retirement costs. When there were twice as many students there was twice as many teachers. Now we have to pay those retirement costs out of the school funds. They were paid for previously but the Republican leadership under former Governor Engler looted the pension fund and never repaid it. You can vote however you see fit but if you have a student in school like me there education will suffer without this funding. If you are a homeowner your values will decrease without quality schools and the local economy will not attract companies. Large employers don't expand in areas with poor schools that can't produce talent for them to employ. This millage only helps you if 1 you have children in school, you own property or a business or you care about the economic future of this area.
I'm sure "Murphy" ment $1,000 per student and not 10,000. And I do care about the economic future of this area. But, I do NOT want the enhancement money to be used for administration. And we all know it's a strong possibility. Wake up, people. Vote NO.
Just the facts

Alpena, MI

#8 Jan 2, 2013
cora wrote:
<quoted text> I'm sure "Murphy" ment $1,000 per student and not 10,000. And I do care about the economic future of this area. But, I do NOT want the enhancement money to be used for administration. And we all know it's a strong possibility. Wake up, people. Vote NO.
If you want to be in control of how the money is spent vote people on to the school board who will spend it wisely or run yourself. As I recall the last election the board seats were uncontested. We have the right to control how it is spent they answer to the voters and can be dismissed by the voters.
Just the facts

Alpena, MI

#9 Jan 2, 2013
Acchsalum wrote:
Just the facts must work for the schools. First off the amount raised is $1,018 a head, yet the cut is $400 a head. First I heard of John Engler raided the retirment fund, one would think Jenny would have refilled it. Remember a teacher can retire at age 49 at 45% of pay. We also pay if you have an advanced degree, so a teacher with a Master in math, gets paid as much as a teacher with a Master in running a school. Alpena pays part of the tution so teachers can get a Masters.
Alpena also pays for development hours the state mandates for teachers, what do you think inservice is? People in other jobs that have educational hours mandated by the state have to pay for thiers. Just ask some one who is an engineer.
Lots of propaganda will be coming out, but ask yourself how much is true. When a letter was printed last spring in The Alpena News over half the kids on one school sports team, had parents working for the school system, people knocked the writer, not is it was true(which it was).
Look at the way the schools try to explain team teacher, how about one teacher in the room. Alpena could save over $450,000 if they did away with team teaching, which is a way to hide a bad teacher.
I don't doubt the schools could use more money, we all could, but people here ahve taken paycuts, have had to pay more then 20% for insurance, why not those at the public trough??
The amount raised is about a 1000 but the amount cut has compounded over years of reductions. Successful communities across this state have voted for millages far higher than this in order to protect education. The retirement situation is just like social security people paid in, government spent it and is now asking fewer people to make up the lost funding. Look up the Engler loan from the education retirement fund that he later legislated that he need not repay. If you tried the same move in your business you would be in jail. I am not currently a teacher but I was in the past, your understanding of team teaching is lacking. It is a very successful technique with proven results it is for the best teachers not the worst, I am not saying that there aren't any bad teachers or reform needed that would be stupid. I am saying that a good education system always exists in a successful community. Name one place that has terrible schools but great property values and a booming economy.
Just the facts

Alpena, MI

#10 Jan 2, 2013
Acchsalum wrote:
What a shock, APS employees have to pay more for health insurance. Welcome to the real world. As one who is self employed I apy 100%. I know my cost will go up on renewal in May.
People with 401K retirements pay into them. You will find few retirement plans like APS does.
Business people also look at tax cost, if I can go some where and pay guess in taxes, what choice is there?
APS does not have a retirement plan, education employees across the state pay into and receive money from a state (mis)managed fund I paid into the system in a previous job but left it with the feeling that I would pay into it and it would never be there when I wanted to get it back. I just don't want years of bad decisions bynpeople in both parties in Lansing costing my children their education.
losers

Alpena, MI

#11 Jan 2, 2013
Murphy and salamandersix are a couple of losers. Read their posts on other subjects and you will see what I mean. Nobody takes them seriously.
to Just the facts

Alpena, MI

#12 Jan 2, 2013
Just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
APS does not have a retirement plan, education employees across the state pay into and receive money from a state (mis)managed fund I paid into the system in a previous job but left it with the feeling that I would pay into it and it would never be there when I wanted to get it back. I just don't want years of bad decisions bynpeople in both parties in Lansing costing my children their education.
I don't believe this as I know retired teachers who get great retirement from this fund. They worked in alpena and still live in alpena. I just talked to one today. I am not sorry, if these people can make it, so can the rest of the public school workers.
Just the facts

Alpena, MI

#13 Jan 2, 2013
to Just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe this as I know retired teachers who get great retirement from this fund. They worked in alpena and still live in alpena. I just talked to one today. I am not sorry, if these people can make it, so can the rest of the public school workers.
People who are already retired are getting paid using the money from people who are working now and paying in now. People who retire in the future may not find money in the fund when they retire. If the pension system is dismantled in favor or private investment like 401k then the government will have to have saved enough to pay the final generation of pensioners(not likely) because there won't be anyone else paying into it. It is the same problem as social security is facing.
Just the facts

Alpena, MI

#14 Jan 2, 2013
Just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
People who are already retired are getting paid using the money from people who are working now and paying in now. People who retire in the future may not find money in the fund when they retire. If the pension system is dismantled in favor or private investment like 401k then the government will have to have saved enough to pay the final generation of pensioners(not likely) because there won't be anyone else paying into it. It is the same problem as social security is facing.
This may help with the retirement cost issue. These numbers are estimates based on the information I have gathered and are meant to illustrate the point not to be exact.
In the past if we had 6000 students and 400 staff and we got 8000 per student from the state then we would have a budget of 48,000,000 and we would have 400 employees paying into the state retirement fund. Say retirement costs took up 10 percent of the budget or 4.8 million.
That means there is 7200 left per kid to educate them
Now say we have 4000 students and 250'staff and we get 6200'per student from the state for a budget of 24,800,000 and we have to pay retirement costs for the old 400 staff so it takes up 15 percent of the budget
Now what is left per kid is 5200. In cities like Birmingham and Ann Arbor they pass millages to get that number up close to 10,000 per kid and their kids get educated and succeed. Their property values grow and they have jobs because education in important. Our millage, we just get us back to the lower number that we were at 10 years ago. It sucks to pay more in taxes but not as much as it does to have declining values on your property and some of the highest unemployment in the state. I want better for my kids and will move on if necessary to somewhere that people actually invest in their children and their future.
Just the facts

Alpena, MI

#15 Jan 2, 2013
Achesallum can put up all the peanuts he wants but if he has any understanding of finance he can't argue the truth behind the math and if he has any hope for this town to ever get turned around economically he can't argue the need for education. It's not about the employees it's about the kids and our future success or continued failure.
Acchsalum

Alpena, MI

#16 Jan 3, 2013
Again Just the facts doesn't have them. Posting peanuts come one. I do believe in education, have set up some scholarship funds, just against waste.
cora

Fennville, MI

#17 Jan 3, 2013
losers wrote:
Murphy and salamandersix are a couple of losers. Read their posts on other subjects and you will see what I mean. Nobody takes them seriously.
I think you are wrong. Most EVERYONE reads their posts because they make sense and at least display interesting and intelligent comments. It also, makes me think these two possibly have some insight or close information. If I'm not mistaken, from previous posts, doesn't one of them work for the AMA or something? Hmm. But of course, if someone disagrees with their comments, they are labeled "losers". Typical Alpena syndrom!
Just the facts

Alpena, MI

#18 Jan 3, 2013
I agree there is too much waste in government and I apologize if I was rude. This is a topic that gets me rather worked up. The waste is happening in Lansing and our kids are suffering. I don't know anything about what is happening in the other districts but I know that Alpena needs this money or the kids will suffer tremendously. This district is one of two that I have ever heard of that literally has closed their doors (black friday). The AMA gets not one penny of the millage money for administration or anything else (go after them with their millions in surplus while the schools they are supposed to help go bankrupt ,there is some waste to fight) and I know that a millage is the only form of taxation that cuts Lansing out of the equation, we don't give it to them and hope they decide to give some back they also get 0. This is us investing in our community for our own good because no one else has or ever will. I don't want to pay more either, but what do you propose to fix the situation?
Facts

Alpena, MI

#19 Jan 3, 2013
Just the facts wrote:
I agree there is too much waste in government and I apologize if I was rude. This is a topic that gets me rather worked up. The waste is happening in Lansing and our kids are suffering. I don't know anything about what is happening in the other districts but I know that Alpena needs this money or the kids will suffer tremendously. This district is one of two that I have ever heard of that literally has closed their doors (black friday). The AMA gets not one penny of the millage money for administration or anything else (go after them with their millions in surplus while the schools they are supposed to help go bankrupt ,there is some waste to fight) and I know that a millage is the only form of taxation that cuts Lansing out of the equation, we don't give it to them and hope they decide to give some back they also get 0. This is us investing in our community for our own good because no one else has or ever will. I don't want to pay more either, but what do you propose to fix the situation?
I agree with most of what you wrote up to the point you suggest that AMA's "millions in surplus" should somehow go to the "schools they are supposed to help". I wondered about AMA's budget myself so I made an appointment and met with AMA's busniness manager to ask my questions. He was very professional and patient and answered every question I had. This is waht I found out:
*Most of AMA's fund balance is earmarked for special education services to local school districts. They cannot legally just give it away to the local schools.
*The total fund balance of AMA would only cover approximately 80 days of expenses before it would be completely gone.
*AMA does share the dollars it receives with loacl schools. Last year for example AMA share over 1.4 million dollars with the local schools.
I'm not sure where you think the "waste" is, but my experiences with AMA as a parent of a child with a disability have been nothing short of amazing.
I don't believe that you purposely are distorting the facts about AMA but I do think this is an area you need to do your homework on.
I too will support the enhancement millage because I believe all kids are worth the investment in a good education. Most of the people who are against the millage are selfish. If they can't see what's in it for them they don't want to support it. Some even go so far as to make up lies to confuse others. It is despicable behavior that speaks volumes about the type of people they are.
Wow Dave

Alpena, MI

#20 Jan 3, 2013
Acchsalum wrote:
Just the facts must work for the schools. First off the amount raised is $1,018 a head, yet the cut is $400 a head. First I heard of John Engler raided the retirment fund, one would think Jenny would have refilled it. Remember a teacher can retire at age 49 at 45% of pay. We also pay if you have an advanced degree, so a teacher with a Master in math, gets paid as much as a teacher with a Master in running a school. Alpena pays part of the tution so teachers can get a Masters.
Alpena also pays for development hours the state mandates for teachers, what do you think inservice is? People in other jobs that have educational hours mandated by the state have to pay for thiers. Just ask some one who is an engineer.
Lots of propaganda will be coming out, but ask yourself how much is true. When a letter was printed last spring in The Alpena News over half the kids on one school sports team, had parents working for the school system, people knocked the writer, not is it was true(which it was).
Look at the way the schools try to explain team teacher, how about one teacher in the room. Alpena could save over $450,000 if they did away with team teaching, which is a way to hide a bad teacher.
I don't doubt the schools could use more money, we all could, but people here ahve taken paycuts, have had to pay more then 20% for insurance, why not those at the public trough??
Geez Dave, as someone who has fed at the trough of the public schools it seems ironic that you would bite the hand that feeds you. I wonder if Mr. Holcomb knows how you feel!

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