Plenty of performance, good deals from Pontiac

Pontiac 's closing by the end of 2010 presents buyers with a conundrum: to buy or pass? After all, General Motors ' performance division offers some great choices right now, from the thrifty G3 hatchback and Vibe to the sexy Solstice roadster and muscular G8 sedan, truly a bargain BMW competitor. Full Story

“Cool Logic - Burning Passion”

Since: Feb 07

Location hidden

#1 Aug 8, 2009
Finally the end of the cheap plastic dashboard...

The G8, par for the course for GM, out of sync with the market...

Sexy Solstice? Try keeping it on the road!

Aveo? last in its class, consistently

GM had years to buck up. The death dance between clueless management and stiff necked braindead and greedy unions (actually the privileged union thug officials) has now cost us, the taxpayer!

I once owned a string of GM products and they were, at the most, tolerable appliances. I've switched and can no longer award them or look the other way for inferior, committee designed, play it safe, badly executed, out of makret sync, CRAP.

Ford became my only choice but ironically my model is built in Canada (but then again, no different that my GM's that were built in Oshawa, Ontario...

Since: Mar 07

Bethlehem, PA

#2 Aug 8, 2009
StaberDearth wrote:
Finally the end of the cheap plastic dashboard...
The G8, par for the course for GM, out of sync with the market...
Sexy Solstice? Try keeping it on the road!
Aveo? last in its class, consistently
GM had years to buck up. The death dance between clueless management and stiff necked braindead and greedy unions (actually the privileged union thug officials) has now cost us, the taxpayer!
I once owned a string of GM products and they were, at the most, tolerable appliances. I've switched and can no longer award them or look the other way for inferior, committee designed, play it safe, badly executed, out of makret sync, CRAP.
Ford became my only choice but ironically my model is built in Canada (but then again, no different that my GM's that were built in Oshawa, Ontario...

I started with Fords - a '70 Mustang and later, and '86 Mustang GT.
Both were maintenance headaches.

Owned a '75 Monte Carlo, a '87 Blazer, and a '95 Jimmy - also less than fully reliable.

Now, a 2001 Dodge Dakota 4.7l V8 that I've had since 2003 - Nothing has EVER gone wrong with that truck. Goes Everywhere, Anytime with comfort and huge power. Plus, I get 18-22mpg, which isn't terrible.
It now has 125k miles, and runs like the day it was new.
Skippy

Emmaus, PA

#3 Aug 8, 2009
I have one of each- 89 Mustang, 04 Malibu, and a 07 Pacifica. All 3 have been good to me so far. To be totally honest, I feel that most of the cars that are made here today can stand up to what japan is producing. What is hurting the domestics is their past, and the perception that people still have in their minds from 2 decades ago.

Let's face it, if hyundai keeps increasing their sales considering the junk they put out just a decade ago,(and what they have now is better, but not by much) then it is only fair that people look at what America is producing TODAY and not the past.

Since: Mar 07

Bethlehem, PA

#4 Aug 8, 2009
Skippy wrote:
I have one of each- 89 Mustang, 04 Malibu, and a 07 Pacifica. All 3 have been good to me so far. To be totally honest, I feel that most of the cars that are made here today can stand up to what japan is producing. What is hurting the domestics is their past, and the perception that people still have in their minds from 2 decades ago.
Let's face it, if hyundai keeps increasing their sales considering the junk they put out just a decade ago,(and what they have now is better, but not by much) then it is only fair that people look at what America is producing TODAY and not the past.

That's the problem with the USA.
We "invented" or "pioneered" many new things, then allowed others to improve upon them, while we continue to pat ourselves on the back for being the "first".

Cars?
We brought them to the masses, but have fallen behind European and Asian
automakers in-terms of safety, economy, reliability, and cost.

Roads?
We were among the first to develop an Interstate Highway, but have been overtaken by many other countries.(Think Autobahn)

Communications?
The US pioneered cellular technology, but while our major providers stick to the old CDMA technology, European carriers have developed the more efficient GSM technology.

Rail Transport?
While we continue to struggle with the POS Amtrak, European and Asian countries have been enjoying their faster, safer, and more cost-effective trains for decades.

Energy?
While we continue to resist any source that isn't tied to fossil fuels, the rest of the world has perfected geothermal, solar, nuclear, tidal, and wind.

Maybe we should stop patting ourselves on the back for our past innovations, and start using our remaining talent to catch-up with the rest of the world.

“Trying to do the best I can.”

Since: Jul 07

Lehigh Valley, PA

#5 Aug 8, 2009
You know, you nailed this one right on the head!!

Bottom line, we let this happen to ourselves. We can't blame the Gov't or the unions for everything. This is a wake up call people. Take notice to what the rest of the world is doing. They learned tons from us. The problem is we gave it all away for free!!
Dennis Mac wrote:
<quoted text>
That's the problem with the USA.
We "invented" or "pioneered" many new things, then allowed others to improve upon them, while we continue to pat ourselves on the back for being the "first".
Cars?
We brought them to the masses, but have fallen behind European and Asian
automakers in-terms of safety, economy, reliability, and cost.
Roads?
We were among the first to develop an Interstate Highway, but have been overtaken by many other countries.(Think Autobahn)
Communications?
The US pioneered cellular technology, but while our major providers stick to the old CDMA technology, European carriers have developed the more efficient GSM technology.
Rail Transport?
While we continue to struggle with the **** Amtrak, European and Asian countries have been enjoying their faster, safer, and more cost-effective trains for decades.
Energy?
While we continue to resist any source that isn't tied to fossil fuels, the rest of the world has perfected geothermal, solar, nuclear, tidal, and wind.
Maybe we should stop patting ourselves on the back for our past innovations, and start using our remaining talent to catch-up with the rest of the world.

“Trying to do the best I can.”

Since: Jul 07

Lehigh Valley, PA

#6 Aug 8, 2009
The check engine light on every Pontiac I owned would come on from time to time, sometimes staying on after I took it to the dealer to be fixed!! Key Pontiac would tell me that as long as it wasn't flashing I shouldn't worry. This happened on 3 different models. At one point I put electrical tape on the gauge to block the light!!

Since: Mar 07

Bethlehem, PA

#7 Aug 8, 2009
OnTheFence wrote:
The check engine light on every Pontiac I owned would come on from time to time, sometimes staying on after I took it to the dealer to be fixed!! Key Pontiac would tell me that as long as it wasn't flashing I shouldn't worry. This happened on 3 different models. At one point I put electrical tape on the gauge to block the light!!

All cars these days have "computers", aka "Electronic Control Modules" or "ECMs".

These ECMs get info from a number of sensors.

When the ECM fails to hear info from a particular sensor, or receives a reading that is unexpected, the ECM stores a code, and lights the "Check Engine" light.

A shop needs only to plug-in a diagnostic device to retrieve the "error code" which spells-out the problem.

Error codes are stored, and if Key Pontiac told you that they couldn't determine the cause, they're FULL OF MALE BOVINE EXCREMENT.

“Trying to do the best I can.”

Since: Jul 07

Lehigh Valley, PA

#8 Aug 9, 2009
I should have said that this happened 20 0r so years ago with a 1986 6000, an 89 Grand Prix and a 91 Sunbird (older cars)... So it was a while ago, but I agree with you. The computers were smart enough back then to tell them a bulb burned out in the trunk, but after a few days, the light would be back on for something else!! It never ended!!

I have since moved on to Fords and Dodges. Both have served me well!! My Taurus is a tank that will run forever and my Ram has treated me well!!

Thanks.
Dennis Mac wrote:
<quoted text>
All cars these days have "computers", aka "Electronic Control Modules" or "ECMs".
These ECMs get info from a number of sensors.
When the ECM fails to hear info from a particular sensor, or receives a reading that is unexpected, the ECM stores a code, and lights the "Check Engine" light.
A shop needs only to plug-in a diagnostic device to retrieve the "error code" which spells-out the problem.
Error codes are stored, and if Key Pontiac told you that they couldn't determine the cause, they're FULL OF MALE BOVINE EXCREMENT.

Since: Mar 07

Bethlehem, PA

#9 Aug 9, 2009
OnTheFence wrote:
I should have said that this happened 20 0r so years ago with a 1986 6000, an 89 Grand Prix and a 91 Sunbird (older cars)... So it was a while ago, but I agree with you. The computers were smart enough back then to tell them a bulb burned out in the trunk, but after a few days, the light would be back on for something else!! It never ended!!
I have since moved on to Fords and Dodges. Both have served me well!! My Taurus is a tank that will run forever and my Ram has treated me well!!
Thanks.
<quoted text>

Those older cars had OBD-I computers - a standard. By 1996 or 1997, all cars use OBD-II, which is nice, since every shop has an OBD-II scanner.

Only Volvo does not use OBD-II. They have some dump proprietary ECM, so if your Volvo quits on the road, you are forced to drag it to a Volvo dealer. No one else has the scanners for them.

I hear you about the Dodges! I love my Dakota. I might even buy a RAM 2500 one of these days.

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