Salamanca, Nation Officials Disagree Over Skate Pond

Jan 25, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Post-Journal, Jamestown New York

An agreement between Salamanca officials and those from the Seneca Nation of Indians to allow residents to get back to the tradition of skating at the city's outdoor ice pond may have broken down, but, city officials are expected to present a plan today for more shared services between the two governments.

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handwriting on the wall

Jacksonville, FL

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#1
Jan 26, 2011
 

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It's obvious that the SNI would like to take over the lease from the City and the City doesn't want to turn over this piece of property to the Nation. Listen, The Seneca Nation owns the improvements in the City - so this agreement is just a formality. The City is going to belong to the Nation soon enough - and the City only has itself to blame with the amateurs they sent to negotiate the 40/40, and for depending on casino money for a huge percentage of the city budget. Furthermore, anyone who would even consider buying homes in Salamanca this close to the end of the 40/40 would be throwing their money on something they would NEVER OWN!- and any realtor who would sell the property, or any bank that would lend for that purpose would not be fulfilling their fiduciary responsibility to the prospective buyer. They'd be leading them down the garden path so they could make a commission.

Since: Jan 11

Jacksonville, FL

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#2
Jan 26, 2011
 

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Let the Seneca Nation open the pond for the kids in Salamanca!!! It's too late to let pride get in the way, Salamanca City Administration!!!
Amen

Curwensville, PA

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#3
Jan 26, 2011
 
Why are the reasons not clearly stated as to what the breakdown was? "What" issues tied to the casino?
Why is this info. not included in this article? Is it top secret?

Since: Jan 11

Jacksonville, FL

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#4
Jan 26, 2011
 

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I think that the City Administration is hiding their heads in the sand, thinking the inevitable will go away. The less they let the citizens in Salamanca know, the better - the way every administration from the mid '80's, on, has operated. If Salamancans don't know the specifics, they can't question it. If they don't question it, the City doesn't have to give any answers. If they don't have to answer to anything, the problem will go away. My guess is that the Seneca's want to take over this piece of City property and the City doesn't want to give it up.
A Pond for Pond

Salamanca, NY

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#5
Jan 26, 2011
 

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If the City is unable to or unwilling to compromise over a little thing like the Ice Skating Pond, then what hope do we have for getting the larger things done? I'd like to blame somebody for this, but it seems that the people to blame are our friends, neighbors, and myself for voting in people who cannot get things done, especially when it comes to having to do more with less. I hope they work this out before spring comes. And the way this winter is going--who knows--we may have until July.
Former Resident

Nashua, NH

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#7
Jan 27, 2011
 

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Good for Pond and the City. Why would they enter into an agreement with the same people that put 50 city workers out of a job and took away vital services. Its about time the city played hardball with the SNI. The city should not enter any agreement with the SNI until the check gets delivered to NYS and the city is compensated. I wonder if Porter will play his other half WHITE card someday when he is a has been with the SNI. Here is a man claiming to be more indian than white. I'd say its pretty clear that he is just another half breed. Maybe the city should start charging the SNI for every time the police and fire departments have to deal with their sovereign members....that would cover the whole budget!

Since: Jun 10

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#8
Jan 27, 2011
 

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It is quite a stretch to blame SNI for the breach of contract NYS is responsible for. But that scenario has literally nothing to do with the layoffs, which was due to the city spending money it didn't have. You don't spend on projections.
I know right

Salamanca, NY

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#9
Jan 27, 2011
 

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I totally agree with KT. The city is wholly to blame for the fiscal mismanagement that has brought on their problems. And I think the Nation needs to just sit back and let the city finish it's descent into oblivion, and then step in and rebuild it on their own. Those that wouldn't like that happening could always move elsewhere. After all it is a "free" country. How many city workers are Seneca?? Any one know? I've never seen any myself. Wonder why that is. And don't even bother crying that racist b.s. about how all the Senecas are lazy and drunks. How do you think the Nation got to be what it is today. With the whites making our decisions for us?

And then what will you say if the Nation prevails and doesn't have to pay?? Your almighty nys is found at fault, then what? Some are so anti-seneca that they wont even consider nys violated the compact even though it's all in writing. Go ahead and charge the Nation for emergency services for members. We'll just make sure that it all gets made up come Lease time. Then we shall see where you stand. It wont be on anywhere on this rez I'll tell you that much.
ABC

Urbana, IL

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#10
Jan 27, 2011
 

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SNI chops people's jobs left and right too!

Since: Jan 11

Jacksonville, FL

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#11
Jan 27, 2011
 

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KT is right- the City has only themselves to blame for the mismanagement of the budget. To rely on something like casino revenues for most of your budget is ridiculous. The City of Salamanca is going to go nowhere by itself. And playing hardball with the SNI over the ICE POND??? If the City was going to play hardball with the Nation, they should have done that years ago by sending competent people to negotiate, by ironing out problems with the 40/40 before it was ever accepted. This isn't just Jeff Pond's fault - Ron Yehl, Tony Carbone Jerry Lockwood and their city councils are just as much to blame.

Since: Jan 11

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#12
Jan 27, 2011
 
handwriting on the wall wrote:
It's obvious that the SNI would like to take over the lease from the City and the City doesn't want to turn over this piece of property to the Nation. Listen, The Seneca Nation owns the improvements in the City - so this agreement is just a formality. The City is going to belong to the Nation soon enough - and the City only has itself to blame with the amateurs they sent to negotiate the 40/40, and for depending on casino money for a huge percentage of the city budget. Furthermore, anyone who would even consider buying homes in Salamanca this close to the end of the 40/40 would be throwing their money on something they would NEVER OWN!- and any realtor who would sell the property, or any bank that would lend for that purpose would not be fulfilling their fiduciary responsibility to the prospective buyer. They'd be leading them down the garden path so they could make a commission.
A brave and courageous post. I could not agree more. Am sure the property I own will soon be a total loss because it will be worth virtually nothing. Keep writing you say it the way it is!

Since: Jan 11

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#13
Jan 27, 2011
 

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ABC wrote:
SNI chops people's jobs left and right too!
Is this the ABC liquor board writing? Ah just kidding but having worked for the SNI the people they chop are simply those who do not support those Native Americans who are in charge of the "pie." Their police force are political appointees. Votes can be purchased. The majority of the SNI natives do not share in the great wealth that the tax free products and Casino have brought to Salamanca. To me said but true.....
A Pond for Pond

Salamanca, NY

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#14
Jan 27, 2011
 

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Let me get this straight. Some people think that an Ice Pond, which the City cannot afford to run this year and for whatever reason, defines a racial boundary? Even Mayor Jeff "Ice" Pond knows that it is an ice skating pond, used by less than 5% of the population (if that), which is why it is not a vital project for the City and why the Senecas will not pay the City to run it.

On a similar note, when has the City paid the Seneca to run something/anything...does the City pay for the Jimersontown outdoor box lacrosse rinks operation? There is no precedent for this, which is why I am sure no one can make serious demands of the Seneca to pay for the operation of the Ice Pond when the Seneca do not operate it themselves.

Personally, I would not pay you to order pay for view programming on your TV, especially when you cannot afford to pay your electric bill.

Since: Jan 11

Jacksonville, FL

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#16
Jan 27, 2011
 

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If the City and the Seneca Nation can't work together on something as small as the ice pond, then how can they even think of working on other endeavors together?????
A Pond for Pond

Salamanca, NY

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#17
Jan 27, 2011
 
True wrote:
No one is demanding they run the ice pond . Sni offered, but then changedbthe agreement after the fact. Sni is attempting to make it racial.
Thank you for clearing up my confusion. I now realize that the Seneca graciously offered to fund the operation of the ice pond wholly on the City's terms, which is why the deal fell through.

Get real. How about you fund my next vehicle purchase, I drive it around all the time, and you just like it. This is your idea of "good deal", right?
A Pond for Pond

Salamanca, NY

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#18
Jan 27, 2011
 
handwriting on the wall wrote:
If the City and the Seneca Nation can't work together on something as small as the ice pond, then how can they even think of working on other endeavors together?????
Let Mayor Jeff "Ice" Pond have his ice pond. It may prove a welcome political point to make in an upcoming election.

Slogan:
"Vote Pond, He saved the Ice Pond by not opening it"
Wow1

United States

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#20
Jan 27, 2011
 
What happened to my tax money that is already in the budget? Where did all that money go? They had all these projects before the casino. So why all of the sudden their broke? Sounds like some one is stealing from the cookie jar? Like the roads not getting fixed after every winter? Where's all the tax paying( real Americans ) money gone to? It's funny how stupid hampsters get when they have money. And how stupid they look when it's gone. Any one wanna go skate'in?
Juris Doc

Salamanca, NY

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#21
Jan 27, 2011
 

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Ruffles wrote:
Oh, I get it. Your a native
The deal fell through because the sni changed the deal after it was agreed on . Sni doesn't want to follow civil service laws, they want only enrolled natives working for the city. There was nothing gracious about their offer. Sni does not want to help anyone but their own.
Native preference is federal policy. And I assume you meant to write "You're a Native" instead of "Your." Grammar and facts are not two of your strong points.

Since: Dec 10

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#22
Jan 27, 2011
 

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handwriting on the wall wrote:
KT is right- the City has only themselves to blame for the mismanagement of the budget. To rely on something like casino revenues for most of your budget is ridiculous. The City of Salamanca is going to go nowhere by itself. And playing hardball with the SNI over the ICE POND??? If the City was going to play hardball with the Nation, they should have done that years ago by sending competent people to negotiate, by ironing out problems with the 40/40 before it was ever accepted. This isn't just Jeff Pond's fault - Ron Yehl, Tony Carbone Jerry Lockwood and their city councils are just as much to blame.
This is the truth BUT it started in the early 80's when the lease was getting closer to expiring and the idiots who were the mayor, councilmen and negotiators for the lease for the City all stubbornly would not see the reality of what the SNI wanted, heck it is almost like when the first lease was signed that they expected another dollar per year agreement which was first (probably) signed when the whites gave the SNI alcohol aka fire water thus, impairing their judgment.

The SNI is not signaling out the city by withholding the casino money, they actually WANTED to pay the local municipalities (Salamanca) but the state of NY would not agree to this.

About the layoffs. The City were like a little kid who found some money and went to the candy store and spent it on all sort of unnecessary candy. The city functioned just fine in the past with ample amount of fire and police protection! If the population has been increasing then it would have been necessary to hire more and prudent to use some of these funds but it wasn't so who talked these idiots into hiring all of these people? Heck, we found a COP from no where who is now a patrolman, and have a retired CCSD as a part time COP who has to pass the test to be hired as a full time COP but will he be able to be chief of police for the salary of a COP or will he and future COP's have to stay at what he can earn now as a retired CCSD of $30,000?

Its not the SNI who has made the city what it is but the city fathers who have over the years! I do not think the SNI wants to run the city because they would have pushed to do so in the past and I think they want to help but like in the past the white city administration believe the SNI are sitting around drinking firewater looking for the smoke signals to come sign an agreement pro white.

PS, I'm 100% white, and a life long resident of the city of Salamanca.
A Pond for Pond

Salamanca, NY

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#24
Jan 27, 2011
 

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Ruffles wrote:
Oh, I get it. Your a native
The deal fell through because the sni changed the deal after it was agreed on . Sni doesn't want to follow civil service laws, they want only enrolled natives working for the city. There was nothing gracious about their offer. Sni does not want to help anyone but their own.
Last I checked, the Seneca Nation is one of the largest employers in Western New York and employ mostly non-Natives. Last I checked, the City employs 99% non-Natives. Do you think these two facts work for or against you unsubstantiated opinion that the Seneca are against civil service laws? I think you are fostering fear against the Seneca by making a hidden claim that the Seneca are secretly out to "take away your job".

Just because I am not all about bashing the Seneca does not make me an automatic Native.

The Seneca can offer the City whatever they want, but don't act incredulous just because the Seneca does not offer everything to the City and ask for nothing in return. Who does that? No one, not even you. If you do, then please pay for my car, boat, RV, and ATV so I can enjoy them while you do not.

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