State feels tremors of ethanol shakeout

State feels tremors of ethanol shakeout

There are 95 comments on the The Indianapolis Star story from Oct 15, 2007, titled State feels tremors of ethanol shakeout. In it, The Indianapolis Star reports that:

Indiana could pay a price for joining the ethanol gold rush at a bad time. A construction worker tamps the ground near the evaporators at Cardinal Ethanol at Winchester.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Indianapolis Star.

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Jim

Huffman, TX

#91 Oct 16, 2007
Oh, it is the farmer, there is no doubt about that. Imagine getting double sales on the income statement with a very little increase in costs. When corn went from 1.70 to 3.50, that is exactly what happened and they just keep collecting their subsidies just like nothing ever happened.

Next spring when all the farmers return from their winter vacation in Florida, take note of all the new machinery in the fields and all the new pickup trucks they will be driving.

Sorry farmgirl the cat is out of the bag and your free lunch days are numbered.
charles stone

Lapel, IN

#92 Oct 16, 2007
Jim wrote:
Oh, it is the farmer, there is no doubt about that. Imagine getting double sales on the income statement with a very little increase in costs. When corn went from 1.70 to 3.50, that is exactly what happened and they just keep collecting their subsidies just like nothing ever happened.
Next spring when all the farmers return from their winter vacation in Florida, take note of all the new machinery in the fields and all the new pickup trucks they will be driving.
Sorry farmgirl the cat is out of the bag and your free lunch days are numbered.
well there you go you hit the nail on the head on this one.
Bill500

United States

#93 Oct 16, 2007
charles stone wrote:
<quoted text>don't blame the farmers well who is getting all the money when they sell their corn anwser the farmer and when they started talking about making ethanol from corn the price of corn went though the roof and along with that the price of food went up as well somebody is making a lot of money over this if not the farmer then who?
Mr. Stone,
Please take an extra moment of your day and use some punctuation marks.
Bill500

United States

#94 Oct 16, 2007
Sorry...should be getting back to the ethanol subject, but can't resist.
Source: International Trade Reporter (10/11/07)
"The Senate Finance Committee approved about $12.6 billion in additional funding for farm bill-related programs late Oct. 4, including $5.1 billion for a permananet disaster aid program.
The funding is partially offset by a series of changes to various tax programs, but according to data from the committee, about $3.6 billion more is needed for offsets."

“Think outside the box!”

Since: Aug 07

Indianapolis

#95 Oct 16, 2007
Al Gore wrote:
<quoted text>
the "carbon footprint" of a Prius Hybrid, over it's expected life, is much greater than the carbon footprint of a Hummer H3.

Sheesh, is this old canard still making the rounds of the internet? It was debunked a long time ago. See:
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/8/27/12...

For the record, my Prius gets about 55mpg in the city and about 50mpg on the highway--this over three years.

Yeah, I thought about a motorcycle instead but it's hard to take a family of four anywhere on a Harley. Or to do the week's grocery shopping. And let's not forget those Indiana winters!
Jim

Huffman, TX

#96 Oct 16, 2007
Bill500 wrote:
Sorry...should be getting back to the ethanol subject, but can't resist.
Source: International Trade Reporter (10/11/07)
"The Senate Finance Committee approved about $12.6 billion in additional funding for farm bill-related programs late Oct. 4, including $5.1 billion for a permananet disaster aid program.
The funding is partially offset by a series of changes to various tax programs, but according to data from the committee, about $3.6 billion more is needed for offsets."
Cha-ching, maybe I'll get an airplane with this free lunch money to check on the crops...
That Guy

Matteson, IL

#97 Oct 16, 2007
Fix the Future wrote:
<quoted text>
Sheesh, is this old canard still making the rounds of the internet? It was debunked a long time ago. See:
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/8/27/12...
For the record, my Prius gets about 55mpg in the city and about 50mpg on the highway--this over three years.
Yeah, I thought about a motorcycle instead but it's hard to take a family of four anywhere on a Harley. Or to do the week's grocery shopping. And let's not forget those Indiana winters!
Contrary to what Al Gore would have you believe, there is no correlation between a carbon footprint and the cost of something (Carbon Credits to offset private jets and massive homes). The Carbon footprint is related to the impact that production of the vehicle, usage, and disposal of the vehicle has on the environment. The batteries in the Prius are not exactly biodgradeable or pollution free to create.
charles stone

Lapel, IN

#98 Oct 16, 2007
Bill500 wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Stone,
Please take an extra moment of your day and use some punctuation marks.
Bill who the hell do you think you are quit crying about the way something is wrote you waste more time picking over what people say talk about needing to take an exta moment you need to as well pal.

“Think outside the box!”

Since: Aug 07

Indianapolis

#99 Oct 16, 2007
That Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Contrary to what Al Gore would have you believe, there is no correlation between a carbon footprint and the cost of something (Carbon Credits to offset private jets and massive homes). The Carbon footprint is related to the impact that production of the vehicle, usage, and disposal of the vehicle has on the environment. The batteries in the Prius are not exactly biodgradeable or pollution free to create.

That's not the point. The point is, even taking the batteries into account, a Prius is still MUCH more energy efficient ("dust to dust") than a Hummer. Not to mention much more economical, of course. And a lot more practical. My neighbor up the street has a Hummer and he has to leave it in the driveway because it won't fit in his garage!
wow

Cincinnati, OH

#100 Oct 16, 2007
I'm sorry - farmers DO NOT work all through the year. ProudFarmGirl - Did you really list "worrying" as part of the "occupation"? Who the hell doesn't?!! Research?!? For the whole winter?!! Please! If I want to know what the farmers are doing during the winter months, I just drive over to the nearest coffee shop. They're working on a finishing a hearty breakfast and,(a lot of the time) rationalizing to themselves why they shouldn't leave a tip.

I know farmers who not only get paid by the gov't not to farm, but also get paid by other farmers to use the land that the gov't has deemed "unfarmable". So not only are they part-timers for life, they're also cheats.

Not all are like this, I know, but it's time we stop thinking of farming as a reasonable full-time occupation. Like you said, ProudFarmGirl, there are those that farm AND work another job. The rest of them need to consider doing that, too.

As for the ethanol issue - I say open up american oil deposits, and also, start incorperating solar energy into everyday life.
Bill500

United States

#101 Oct 17, 2007
charles stone wrote:
<quoted text>Bill who the hell do you think you are quit crying about the way something is wrote you waste more time picking over what people say talk about needing to take an exta moment you need to as well pal.
Mr. Stone,
If one writes something, one should do do it, correctly, thereby, allowing those who read it to understand it without hesitation. By not utilizing punctuation, you do an injustice to those who must read it.
In your last scribe, you are, again, not utilizing punctuation. If I may, I'll just loan you some of my extra punctuation marks.,?...,
Nope

Canton, MI

#102 Oct 17, 2007
Fix the Future wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not the point. The point is, even taking the batteries into account, a Prius is still MUCH more energy efficient ("dust to dust") than a Hummer. Not to mention much more economical, of course. And a lot more practical. My neighbor up the street has a Hummer and he has to leave it in the driveway because it won't fit in his garage!
No, the Prius has much shorter useful life than the Hummer, and actually costs more per mile to operate. The useful life of the Prius is only 100,000 miles, while the Humer is rated at a useful life of 300,000 miles. the total life-cycle cost to operate a Prius is $3.25 per mile. For the Hummer, it's $1.95 per mile

The nickel for Prius batteries is mined in Canada, then shipped to Ireland to be refined, then the refined nickel is shipped to China for production of battery components. Then those components are shipped to Japan for the final battery assembly.

People who buy the Prius are eco-dupe's
Nope

Canton, MI

#103 Oct 17, 2007
Fix the Future wrote:
<quoted text>
Sheesh, is this old canard still making the rounds of the internet? It was debunked a long time ago. See:
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/8/27/12...
For the record, my Prius gets about 55mpg in the city and about 50mpg on the highway--this over three years.
Yeah, I thought about a motorcycle instead but it's hard to take a family of four anywhere on a Harley. Or to do the week's grocery shopping. And let's not forget those Indiana winters!
Uh, that "debunking" link isn't exactly accurate. matter of fact is just that guy's opinion, no basis in fact in anything his says.
The Vision

Indianapolis, IN

#104 Oct 17, 2007
Charlie Peters wrote:
Does corn ethanol policy for fuel increase oil use and oil profit?
Some folks think so
Clean Air Performance Professionals
When I burn 10% EtOH gas, my fuel milage drops by 13%. I know that EtOH has a lower energy density than gas does, so a slight drop is expected. A 13% drop means that I am burning more fossil fuel than if the EtOH was not there. Yea, that is a huge shot of profit for the iol companies.

“Think outside the box!”

Since: Aug 07

Indianapolis

#105 Oct 17, 2007
Nope wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh, that "debunking" link isn't exactly accurate. matter of fact is just that guy's opinion, no basis in fact in anything his says.

He provides links to studies that refute that "Dust to dust" pseudo-study point by point. One example, from the Pacific Institute study:
" Even the most cursory look reveals serious biases and flaws: the average Hummer H1 is assumed to travel 379,000 miles and last for 35 years, while the average Prius is assumed to last only 109,000 miles over less than 12 years. These selective and unsupported assumptions distort the final results. A quick re-analysis with peer-reviewed data leads to completely opposite conclusions: the life-cycle energy requirements of hybrids and smaller cars are far lower than Hummers and other large SUVs."

It goes on to point out that they pretty much made up the numbers you quote about expected lifetime of a Prius vs a Hummer. In fact, using reliability data and other measures (since both MUST be estimates as neither vehicle has been around for 10 years yet) they come up with the exact opposite prediction. I believe that "Dust to Dust" pseudo-study was commissioned by GM....

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