U.S. rattled as Mexico drug war bleed...
Ret-AF

Alamogordo, NM

#85 Mar 15, 2009
Mr. Nicholson,

Do I believe that as a nation we have fought or applied ourselves in a continually consistent manner when it comes to getting rid of drugs? In a word, no.

But I also do not believe we can afford to legalize drugs, especially not now with so many out of work and down on their luck. Everyone complains about our society being unprofessional, uneducated, greedy, slothfull, and whatever else comes to mind. Go ahead and legalize drugs and see what happens. Think that person driving and texting makes you mad, or how about that multiple DUI person that continues to drive and endanger everyone. Those will be nothing compared to what I think will happen.

This is what we need to do..reset and reset now. Choke our borders closed until nothing gets in or out and that includes weapons, and ammo (but that's another thread). Slap the State Department and the President around until they understand that we the people come first. Set or stop, then enforce controls on all types of immigration until our borders are stabalized and illegal weapons shipments have ceased.

Then start going after individual home grown dealers, producers, and distributors of drugs until we see a downturn in use...once that occurs then let's discuss, if not legalization, some type of (for lack of a better phrase) decriminalization of certain drugs or drug possession.

Right now it appears as if our social controls are going the way of the dinosaur or at the very least morphing into something I no longer recognize...throwing mind altering intoxicants into the mix will not help.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#86 Mar 15, 2009
Ex Cop wrote:
<quoted text>
You say "put money into the pockets of working people to spend on the economy".
I say let us all WORK for our money to spend on the economy. Stealling from the rich and giving the poor will not work in getting those people to work. They will just not work knowing that the government will just put money in their pockets.
I agree that everybody should work for their money. The problem is that the nation has lost 4.4 million jobs since recession officially began in Dec. 2007. Many people do not have spending money because they don't have work. The Stimulus Package is designed to create jobs. I don't think you have to worry about the poor people getting your money.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#87 Mar 15, 2009
Ret-AF wrote:
Mr. Nicholson,
I understand your view as per the legalization of drugs. My question is this: What do you do with the drug cartel leaders and members once you've legalized their product?
I assume that as a rational person you would expect to see them prosecuted for the crimes they committed in the furtherance of their (then) illegal activities?
Since Mexico has (in my mind) always been a corrupt country who is going to prosecute the individuals once they are brought to justice? At the rate things are going it won't be the Mexican government.
This is what I forsee happening if drugs are legalized without controlling our borders first. First of all the Mexican government/people will undergo some changes to their way of life that will be painful to endure if they do not or cannot adjudicate this drug war quickly, viciously, and effectively.
I would then (depending upon how things go) expect the cartel leaders and members to be granted some sort of limited or full amnesty for their actions and then become full-fledged honest, upright, and earnest leaders in the drug business community.
Once this occurs I would expect the (then) legalized market to become fully inundated by Mafia/gangster types attempting to control their share of the 'free' market. The current legalized 'Mom and Pop' type growers who are flourishing in areas of California and some other states will be forced out of business by guess who? Conglomerates, possibly the federal government, and anyone else who can figure out a way to make megabucks off of something that was intended to fix a problem.
We all remember that LSD was not prohibited until at least, what, 1964, why was that? Didn't our country already work through problems with opium dens, cocaine in beverages, etc, etc, etc? We came through all of that with idea that for whatever reason criminalizing the use of those drugs was the best thing we could do for our society.
Thank you for your thoughtful post! What to do with all the cartel criminals. I would be for prosecution if we can catch them. They would still be breaking the law by smuggling drugs into our country.

I think that we should only legalize marijuana and grow it locally in the US. Weed makes up about 80% of the drug trade according to the Border Patrol. Hard drugs drug trafficking should remain illegal, but use should be handled by sentencing users to rehab treatment instead of incarceration.

You are right, it would turn out to be big business, but it could be regulated and taxed like alcohol and tobacco. Let me know what you think.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#88 Mar 15, 2009
Ret-AF wrote:
Mr. Nicholson,
Do I believe that as a nation we have fought or applied ourselves in a continually consistent manner when it comes to getting rid of drugs? In a word, no.
But I also do not believe we can afford to legalize drugs, especially not now with so many out of work and down on their luck. Everyone complains about our society being unprofessional, uneducated, greedy, slothfull, and whatever else comes to mind. Go ahead and legalize drugs and see what happens. Think that person driving and texting makes you mad, or how about that multiple DUI person that continues to drive and endanger everyone. Those will be nothing compared to what I think will happen.
This is what we need to do..reset and reset now. Choke our borders closed until nothing gets in or out and that includes weapons, and ammo (but that's another thread). Slap the State Department and the President around until they understand that we the people come first. Set or stop, then enforce controls on all types of immigration until our borders are stabalized and illegal weapons shipments have ceased.
Then start going after individual home grown dealers, producers, and distributors of drugs until we see a downturn in use...once that occurs then let's discuss, if not legalization, some type of (for lack of a better phrase) decriminalization of certain drugs or drug possession.
Right now it appears as if our social controls are going the way of the dinosaur or at the very least morphing into something I no longer recognize...throwing mind altering intoxicants into the mix will not help.
Again you make good points and they should to be addressed by any new drug policy.

The thing with people is that people like to get high and will do so regardless of what the law says. The "War on Drugs" has been going on for thirty years, costing billions each year, and has been a total disaster. Prohibition does not work! People continue to use drugs in spite of laws, incarceration, and the war. We put users into prisons where they continue to use drugs. This is the reality and it is crazy and absurd to continue what we are doing.

Then there is the violence. This violence, on the borders and increasingly in larger cities, exists only because there is so much money involved with illegal drugs and every thug in the Western hemisphere wants a piece of the action. Legalizing, producing, controlling, and taxing the sale of drugs would put the illegal trade out of business, just like the ending of prohibition on alcohol ended Mafia involvement. The Mafia and the violence only existed because alcohol was illegal.

Driving while impaired is still driving impaired regardless of the drug.

I think that, because of all the points you made in your post, we should legalize marijuana. Think about it and see what one group of law enforcement officers have to say about the war on drugs. http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php

“+Brutally Inquizitive+”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#89 Mar 16, 2009

“+Brutally Inquizitive+”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#90 Mar 16, 2009
Janet White

United States

#91 Mar 16, 2009
Nos3y wrote:
http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_ 11921826
http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_11901868
The last sentence of the story in your first link is hysterical.

“+Brutally Inquizitive+”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#92 Mar 16, 2009
Janet White wrote:
<quoted text>
The last sentence of the story in your first link is hysterical.
Oh, you mean the part where they said it was unknown WHY he had the firearms? LOL
Janet White

Sunnyvale, CA

#93 Mar 16, 2009
Bingo!

“+Brutally Inquizitive+”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#94 Mar 16, 2009
"Juárez has new chiefs of police, public safety"
http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_11929018

“+Brutally Inquizitive+”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#95 Mar 16, 2009
"Mexico's government says cartel violence killed 6,290 people across Mexico last year and more than 1,000 in the first eight weeks of 2009. Some of the violence has spilled over to the U.S., where Mexican drug cartels are believed to operate in 230 cities, according to a recent Justice Department report.

The violence in Juarez has been brutal — even by local standards. Police Chief Roberto Orduna Cruz quit last month after cartel henchmen followed through on their threat to kill two police officers every 48 hours unless he resigned.

Two days later, the cartels taped up warnings on store windows across the city that Mayor Jose Reyes Ferriz was next. Reyes and officials with the state of Chihuahua then asked for more federal troops.

Mexican officials have responded to the violence by dispatching 5,000 military soldiers and more than 1,200 federal police officers to the city. The local government also has fired more than 600 municipal police officers with links to cartels — a rare move for Mexican cities — and handed over police duties to the military. "

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-03-16...

“+Brutally Inquizitive+”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#96 Mar 16, 2009
^^^^^^^
"But the military presence has also led to increased human rights abuse allegations, said Gustavo de la Rosa Hickerson, the ombudsman at the State Commission for Human Rights in Ciudad Juarez.

Since the military first arrived in the city in March 2008, his office has documented 160 cases of human rights abuses and more than 3,000 individual incidents of violations, he said.

One man said he was arrested by military soldiers, beaten, stripped naked and had his testicles shocked with electricity, according to a complaint forwarded by the commission to lawmakers.

Others complained of being doused with gasoline and threatened with fire, the complaint said.

Military officials are monitoring the troops for human rights abuses, though few victims have filed official complaints, said Torres, the security spokesman.

Carlos Huerta, a former crime reporter with El Norte, is among those who believe the lull may be temporary. Huerta was writing about the cartel violence early last year when he received a call on his cellphone, threatening to kill him and his family unless he stopped. He left the newspaper and the city for two weeks, then returned.

"Right now, we're betting on the increase in troops," Huerta said. "We hope it pays off."

“+Brutally Inquizitive+”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#97 Mar 16, 2009
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/117/story/64001.ht...

This link leads to an article that describes what the U.S. is contemplating as far as helping Mexico.
Janet White

Sanger, CA

#98 Mar 17, 2009
Today, 11:30 am, Pepper's Grill, a representative of the U.S. Border Patrol will address the Republican Party of Otero County. This is a monthly no host lunch meeting and open to the public.
Ret-AF

Alamogordo, NM

#99 Mar 17, 2009
Most of the higher level individuals involved with the current drug related issues in Mexico received training from the US military at some time or another.

One of the first things you learn in any military strategy related course of instruction is to always have an alternate base of operations.

Where might the casual readers of this blog think that is for these drug peddler's?

I've said this before in other forums and I'll say it here. We need to wake up and start paying attention to our surroundings as well as the going's on in our neighborhoods.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#100 Mar 17, 2009
Janet White wrote:
Today, 11:30 am, Pepper's Grill, a representative of the U.S. Border Patrol will address the Republican Party of Otero County. This is a monthly no host lunch meeting and open to the public.
Janet, I'm at work this morning. Could you post here a summary of the meeting?
Janet White

Sanger, CA

#101 Mar 17, 2009
1. Prayer
2. Pledge of Alliegance
3. Minutes of previous meeting
4. Treasurer's report
5. BP speaker with power point presentation:
a. one out of eight apprehended has criminal
background of a serious nature
b. the environment is being trashed on
trails and in lay up areas. BLM involved.
c. BP increased from 8 to 20 thousand in past
couple of years
d. fence and types fence; agents and modes
of detection
e. territory covered by Alamogordo office and
improvements to it
f. questions from the audience.
I didn't take notes so I may have missed something here.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#102 Mar 17, 2009
Thanks, I can fill in the blanks.
Janet White wrote:
1. Prayer
2. Pledge of Alliegance
3. Minutes of previous meeting
4. Treasurer's report
5. BP speaker with power point presentation:
a. one out of eight apprehended has criminal
background of a serious nature
b. the environment is being trashed on
trails and in lay up areas. BLM involved.
c. BP increased from 8 to 20 thousand in past
couple of years
d. fence and types fence; agents and modes
of detection
e. territory covered by Alamogordo office and
improvements to it
f. questions from the audience.
I didn't take notes so I may have missed something here.

“+Brutally Inquizitive+”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#103 Mar 17, 2009
Janet White wrote:
1. Prayer
2. Pledge of Alliegance
3. Minutes of previous meeting
4. Treasurer's report
5. BP speaker with power point presentation:
a. one out of eight apprehended has criminal
background of a serious nature
b. the environment is being trashed on
trails and in lay up areas. BLM involved.
c. BP increased from 8 to 20 thousand in past
couple of years
d. fence and types fence; agents and modes
of detection
e. territory covered by Alamogordo office and
improvements to it
f. questions from the audience.
I didn't take notes so I may have missed something here.
Thanks for the info Janet. Did it sound as though there are plans being made to improve the situation on our end of it?

Since: Apr 08

Taos, New Mexico

#104 Mar 17, 2009
Greetings to my neighbors to the south. I'd like to add a few comments regarding the previous posts.
President Calderon's comment, as I read it, was that as long as Americans were going to continue consuming illegal drugs, the drug trade would be profitable enough it could not be eliminated. What I see as the key word is "illegal". If the US were to legalize all drugs, not decriminalize, legalize, and control the entire process from production to consumption the Mexican cartels would need a different line of work. Grow American, buy American.
Visit http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php - Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. We do NOT advocate drug use, we do advocate an end to the insanity of the drug war and the continuously rising tide of violence associated with prohibition.

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