Halfway house criticisms needed more ...

Halfway house criticisms needed more research

There are 40 comments on the Alamogordo Daily News story from Feb 2, 2008, titled Halfway house criticisms needed more research. In it, Alamogordo Daily News reports that:

I thought about responding when the article first appeared in the paper about the new halfway house, but then thought maybe it would blow over and no more would be said.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Alamogordo Daily News.

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H Thompson

United States

#1 Feb 3, 2008
Interesting
formerlyknownas gramma

Albuquerque, NM

#2 Feb 3, 2008
While I agree with most of what you have written, the fact remains that:
1. There was a restrictive convenant in place that was ignored.
2. The owner of the property gave conflicting information.
formerlyknownas gramma

Albuquerque, NM

#3 Feb 3, 2008
I forgot -
3. It is a business, not a residence.

Queen of Foo

“Ends never justify means”

Since: Dec 07

Alamogordo

#4 Feb 3, 2008
How many times must it be said that covenants do not mean crap! The Fair Housing Act does not allow for ordinances or covenants to disallow halfway houses in their community. This is well settled case law in NM and every other state that has tried this discrimination. In NM Hill v Community of Damien of Molokai makes this very clear.

Halfway houses are considered a single family unit since the residents act as a family unit. I am actually working on a article that talks about case law and will hopefully dispel many myths surrounding the fear of halfway houses.

I spoke in great length with Gayle Palshook on the phone and will be addressing her concerns in the article as well. People seeking treatment need and deserve a second chance. Having people who hate them and say or do things to harm their treatment interferes with any chance they might have to live a normal life without drugs or alcohol. Why change if people don't give you that second chance?

People say our society has gone to heck because God is not the focus of peoples lives yet many of these residents would claim to be good Christians. The problem with society has nothing to do with God but the fact we are a "me centered" society where people only care about themselves and their family. People do not care or look out for their neighbors. All they care about is keeping up with and outdoing their neighbors. We live in a society where your elderly neighbor can lie dead in his or her house for a week before being discovered because nobody bothered to realize that they had not seen their neighbor or went to check on them. We do not work together as a community to look out for one another. It is better to see your neighbor fail because it makes you (in general) feel superior.

You can always put down a neighbor who has an illegal drug addiction while you are popping pills or slugging alcohol because both those are legal but you and your neighbor are trying to accomplish the same thing- escape from reality. You (in general) just chose a different means of escape and that is the only difference, it does not make you any better though.
Denise Lang

La Luz, NM

#5 Feb 3, 2008
It's amazing that people who 'medicate' their feelings by drinking too much, eating too much, spending too much money shopping can be so judgmental about how others 'escape from reality' as QoF stated.
Before these people were in recovery, they were scattered in our neighborhoods, just unidentified.
Of course we need MORE treatment, rehab, half-way houses and fewer jails.

Since: Jan 08

Alamogordo, NM

#6 Feb 3, 2008
Why not put these facilities in areas where they will be welcome? There is a halfway house for women on Canal Street in a commercial district. No problems there. Why come into a single family residential area with persons who are not a family. Damien held that four Aids patients living together as a permanent family consititued a family. I agree. 16 persons in a 90 days revolving door facility have no permanence--the only thing they have in common is their former dependence on drugs.
John Baake

Alamogordo, NM

#7 Feb 3, 2008
Again people are missing the point!

This is not about halfway houses in general.
This is about THIS halfway house and it's deceoptive practices.

It was the people involved with the halfway house who were being evaisive and deceptive before anyone in this entire state said a negative word against them.

If they are not licensed as a treatment facility, then it is nothing more than a bording house. And that is against the covenants!

Queen of Foo

“Ends never justify means”

Since: Dec 07

Alamogordo

#8 Feb 3, 2008
John Baake wrote:
Again people are missing the point!
This is not about halfway houses in general.
This is about THIS halfway house and it's deceoptive practices.
It was the people involved with the halfway house who were being evaisive and deceptive before anyone in this entire state said a negative word against them.
If they are not licensed as a treatment facility, then it is nothing more than a bording house. And that is against the covenants!
Why is this so hard to understand! There is NO license needed for HALFWAY houses unless medical care is being provided! Show me the licensing requirements if you are going to keep blathering on and on about it!

As a teaser I will give you a quote I will be using in my article from Gayle Palshook when addressing the "lies" given to the residents in Oro Vista. "They were the truth but they (meaning Mr. Zayas) did not elaborate enough". The example given was "He stated he owned it but was renting it which led us to believe he was renting it to a family like another neighbor (note: which happens to be the house next to the facility). "Which was a true statement but Mr. Zayas is renting it to his Limited Liability company".

The residents from what I have heard have never been lied to they just felt the questions they asked were not elaborated on. Maybe they asked the wrong questions but it does not appear that anyone was lied to.
John Baake

Alamogordo, NM

#9 Feb 3, 2008
So what you're saying is that I can open a boarding house anywhere I want to without a license, as long as I call it a halfway house.
Queen of Foo wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is this so hard to understand! There is NO license needed for HALFWAY houses unless medical care is being provided! Show me the licensing requirements if you are going to keep blathering on and on about it!
As a teaser I will give you a quote I will be using in my article from Gayle Palshook when addressing the "lies" given to the residents in Oro Vista. "They were the truth but they (meaning Mr. Zayas) did not elaborate enough". The example given was "He stated he owned it but was renting it which led us to believe he was renting it to a family like another neighbor (note: which happens to be the house next to the facility). "Which was a true statement but Mr. Zayas is renting it to his Limited Liability company".
The residents from what I have heard have never been lied to they just felt the questions they asked were not elaborated on. Maybe they asked the wrong questions but it does not appear that anyone was lied to.

Queen of Foo

“Ends never justify means”

Since: Dec 07

Alamogordo

#10 Feb 3, 2008
John Baake wrote:
So what you're saying is that I can open a boarding house anywhere I want to without a license, as long as I call it a halfway house.
<quoted text>
No halfway houses have a specific meaning. I am not going to give away anymore of my article here. I will say that I will be explaining the difference between boarding homes and halfway houses since Gayle asked me the same exact question. I just have way too many hours invested in research to give it all away here, I hope you understand. It will all be revealed in time ;o)
John Baake

Alamogordo, NM

#11 Feb 3, 2008
Not only is it required to be licensed, But I have also found the fee for the license is $50
John Baake

Alamogordo, NM

#12 Feb 3, 2008

Queen of Foo

“Ends never justify means”

Since: Dec 07

Alamogordo

#13 Feb 3, 2008
John Baake wrote:
http://dhi.health.state.nm.us/ elibrary/NewItems/07.001.0007% 20HFL%20Fees%20&%20Procedu res.pdf
Look on page 2
Did you read the definitions of a "health care" facility by any chance? Tell me how this facility which is self paid would fall under this description? If they ever treat anyone under the age of 21 then they would requiring licensing under this definition. I know that this facility does plan to accept people under 21 in the future but does not at this time so licensing at THIS time is not required.

24-1-2 D Definitions.

"health facility" means a public hospital, profit or nonprofit private hospital, general or special hospital, outpatient facility, maternity home or shelter, adult daycare facility, nursing home, intermediate care facility, boarding home not under the control of an institution of higher learning, child care center, shelter care home, diagnostic and treatment center, rehabilitation center, infirmary, community mental health center that serves both children and adults or adults only, residential treatment center that serves persons up to twenty-one years of age, community mental health center that serves only persons up to twenty-one years of age and day treatment center that serves persons up to twenty-one years of age or a health service organization operating as a freestanding hospice or a home health agency. The designation of these entities as health facilities is only for the purposes of definition in the Public Health Act and does not imply that a free-standing hospice or a home health agency is considered a health facility for the purposes of other provisions of state or federal laws. "Health facility" also includes those facilities that, by federal regulation, must be licensed by the state to obtain or maintain full or partial, permanent or temporary federal funding. It does not include the offices and treatment rooms of licensed private practitioners.

Yes a halfway house would fall under these definition if they accepted federal funding. That is why it is listed:

7.1.7.2 SCOPE: These regulations apply to any health facility as defined by 24-1-2(D) NMSA 1978, as
amended, which is licensed or is required to be licensed, or any health facility which by federal regulations must be
licensed to obtain or maintain federal funding.
[11/20/85, 10/18/91, 4/30/93; 7.1.2 NMAC - Rn, 7 NMAC

Any more questions?
tired of queenie

San Jose, CA

#14 Feb 3, 2008
It seems to me that you lurk around waiting to jump on any inaccuracies, no matter how slight, rather than the actual issue at hand. If you were buying a house, would you decide that the best place is right next to a halfway house? Some will say yes and some no, for various reasons. The fact that I would not consider buying that house diminishes the property value, as that would be one less bidder. As valid as the other points are, perhaps it would be easier to fight this on a strictly "property value dimishment" angle?
John Baake

Alamogordo, NM

#15 Feb 3, 2008
7.1.7.10 (B)

CATEGORY II. Fees for facilities providing residential care and services on a twenty-four (24) hour basis shall be based on the number of beds in each facility.

TYPE OF FACILITY

Adult Boarding Home
Adult Residential Shelter care Home
Community Residential Facility for Developmentally Disabled Individuals
Family Care Home
Half Way Home
New or Innovative Programs
Residential Treatment Homes

Aplication Rate According to Facility Size
2-29 .....$50.00
30-50 ....$50.00
51-100 ....$50.00
101-150 ...$75.00
151-200 ...$75.00
200+.....$75.00

Appearently you missed the little tiny word "or" when you were spouting off about the federal funding stuff.
A state license is required for all of these facility's "OR" any other that would require a license to recieve federal funds.
It does not matter whether they are reciving federal funds. What matters is that they are declaring themselves a type of facility which would be eligible to recieve federal funds.

Queen of Foo

“Ends never justify means”

Since: Dec 07

Alamogordo

#16 Feb 3, 2008
tired of queenie wrote:
It seems to me that you lurk around waiting to jump on any inaccuracies, no matter how slight, rather than the actual issue at hand. If you were buying a house, would you decide that the best place is right next to a halfway house? Some will say yes and some no, for various reasons. The fact that I would not consider buying that house diminishes the property value, as that would be one less bidder. As valid as the other points are, perhaps it would be easier to fight this on a strictly "property value dimishment" angle?
Thank you for the honor of putting me in your username. Very funny!

Okay so in your mind every house you look at that you do not decide to buy for whatever reason has "diminished" it's value? Sorry but it does not work that way, you give your opinion of a place too much value over the market. All it means is you are just not the right buyer for that house. That does not mean someone of greater means won't come along and decide it is the right price for the property.

The only people that diminish the property value are the residents out there living like swine.

Regardless if we say your argument has any merit at all (which it does not) it is not an argument that one can use legally to discriminate. I guess that is a good reason to rent rather than own. If you do not like your neighbors you can just move.

Queen of Foo

“Ends never justify means”

Since: Dec 07

Alamogordo

#17 Feb 3, 2008
John Baake wrote:
7.1.7.10 (B)
CATEGORY II. Fees for facilities providing residential care and services on a twenty-four (24) hour basis shall be based on the number of beds in each facility.
TYPE OF FACILITY
Adult Boarding Home
Adult Residential Shelter care Home
Community Residential Facility for Developmentally Disabled Individuals
Family Care Home
Half Way Home
New or Innovative Programs
Residential Treatment Homes
Aplication Rate According to Facility Size
2-29 .....$50.00
30-50 ....$50.00
51-100 ....$50.00
101-150 ...$75.00
151-200 ...$75.00
200+.....$75.00
Appearently you missed the little tiny word "or" when you were spouting off about the federal funding stuff.
A state license is required for all of these facility's "OR" any other that would require a license to recieve federal funds.
It does not matter whether they are reciving federal funds. What matters is that they are declaring themselves a type of facility which would be eligible to recieve federal funds.
John you are so very confused. Look at the definitions.

7.1.7.2 SCOPE: These regulations apply to any health facility as defined by 24-1-2(D)

I posted 24-1-2 D and you still want to argue. The halfway houses that needs licensing are only the ones who fall under the scope (definition). BTW have you been drinking? Or do you have a hard time with comprehension all the time?

“na”

Since: Jan 08

Otero Resistance County

#18 Feb 3, 2008
Denise Lang wrote:
It's amazing that people who 'medicate' their feelings by drinking too much, eating too much, spending too much money shopping can be so judgmental about how others 'escape from reality' as QoF stated.
Before these people were in recovery, they were scattered in our neighborhoods, just unidentified.
Of course we need MORE treatment, rehab, half-way houses and fewer jails.
Good point. I don't believe incarceration deals with addiction, as substance abuse is rampant in prisons. AA based networking and support are powerful tools in recovery. I would like the fewer jails comment explained. But I agree with Denise, addressing substance abuse and addiction with serious, dedicated community support is essential.
John Baake

Alamogordo, NM

#19 Feb 3, 2008
I have no problem comprehending these articles. But appearently you do.

24-1-2 D does not say that a facility must be receiving federal funds to fall under the definitions. It says any facility ELIGIBLE to recieve federal funds.
Queen of Foo wrote:
<quoted text>
John you are so very confused. Look at the definitions.
7.1.7.2 SCOPE: These regulations apply to any health facility as defined by 24-1-2(D)
I posted 24-1-2 D and you still want to argue. The halfway houses that needs licensing are only the ones who fall under the scope (definition). BTW have you been drinking? Or do you have a hard time with comprehension all the time?

“na”

Since: Jan 08

Otero Resistance County

#20 Feb 3, 2008
"You can always put down a neighbor who has an illegal drug addiction while you are popping pills or slugging alcohol because both those are legal but you and your neighbor are trying to accomplish the same thing- escape from reality. You (in general) just chose a different means of escape and that is the only difference, it does not make you any better though."

Another good point. I'm posting this comment on Super Bowl Sunday, one of our nation's biggest drinking days. Let's read the police logs this week and see if there is an increase in alcohol related arrests: DWI, domestic violence, fights, disturbances, ambulance calls related to substance abuse, and criminal damage. The Super Bowl rakes in billions of dollars. Does anyone think there would be support for banning the Super Bowl or any other holiday where alcohol is abused as part of the celebration? Who do we lable as irresponsible and who do we lable as undesirable?

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