Ohio private clubs can't allow smoking

[KHartman]

Linda wrote:

<quoted text>
Speaking of exempt, did you see the exemptions that Ohio voted for?
Copied and pasted from actual certified ballot
Exempt from the smoking restrictions certain locations, including private residences (except during the hours that the residence operates as a place of business involving non-residents of the private residence), designated smoking rooms in hotels, motels, and other lodging facilities; designated smoking areas for nursing home residents; retail tobacco stores, outdoor patios, private clubs, and family-owned and operated places of business;
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/elections/elec...

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/elections/elec...

"(C) Family-owned and operated places of employment in which all employees are related to the owner, but only if the enclosed areas of the place of employment are not open to the public, are in a free standing structure occupied solely by the place of employment, and smoke from the place of employment does not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the provisions of this chapter."

"(G) Private clubs as defined in section 4301.01(B)(13) of the Revised Code, provided all of the following apply: the club has no employees; the club is organized as a not for profit entity; only members of the club are present in the club's building; no persons under the age of eighteen are present in the club's building; the club is located in a freestanding structure occupied solely by the club; smoke from the club does not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the provisions of this chapter; and, if the club serves alcohol, it holds a valid D4 liquor permit."

[Linda]

KHartman wrote:

<quoted text>
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/elections/elec...
"(C) Family-owned and operated places of employment in which all employees are related to the owner, but only if the enclosed areas of the place of employment are not open to the public, are in a free standing structure occupied solely by the place of employment, and smoke from the place of employment does not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the provisions of this chapter."
"(G) Private clubs as defined in section 4301.01(B)(13) of the Revised Code, provided all of the following apply: the club has no employees; the club is organized as a not for profit entity; only members of the club are present in the club's building; no persons under the age of eighteen are present in the club's building; the club is located in a freestanding structure occupied solely by the club; smoke from the club does not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the provisions of this chapter; and, if the club serves alcohol, it holds a valid D4 liquor permit."

please show that on the ballot at the time of the vote :-)

That was months *AFTER* the vote K

[Cincy Steve]

KHartman wrote:

<quoted text>
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/elections/elec...
"(C) Family-owned and operated places of employment in which all employees are related to the owner, but only if the enclosed areas of the place of employment are not open to the public, are in a free standing structure occupied solely by the place of employment, and smoke from the place of employment does not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the provisions of this chapter."
"(G) Private clubs as defined in section 4301.01(B)(13) of the Revised Code, provided all of the following apply: the club has no employees; the club is organized as a not for profit entity; only members of the club are present in the club's building; no persons under the age of eighteen are present in the club's building; the club is located in a freestanding structure occupied solely by the club; smoke from the club does not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the provisions of this chapter; and, if the club serves alcohol, it holds a valid D4 liquor permit."

While this may be the full text of the bill, this part was 'not'
on the ballot that everyone voted on...

[Happy Contented Soul]

Cancer Stix wrote:

<quoted text>
Clam up HAG!

Buzz off hey now.

[Linda]

Cincy Steve wrote:

<quoted text>
While this may be the full text of the bill, this part was 'not'
on the ballot that everyone voted on...

The majority voted on the exemptions :)

[KHartman]

Linda wrote:

<quoted text>please show that on the ballot at the time of the vote :-)
That was months *AFTER* the vote K

No, the full text of the law was available well in advance of the election, for folks that cared enough to read it. I did.

[KHartman]

Cincy Steve wrote:

<quoted text>
While this may be the full text of the bill, this part was 'not'
on the ballot that everyone voted on...

This happens with many issues. What you see on the ballot is a summary of the proposed law. The prepared voter doesn't wait till the day of the election to familiarize themselves with the issues or the candidates.

I knew exactly what I was voting for.

[Linda]

KHartman wrote:

<quoted text>
No, the full text of the law was available well in advance of the election, for folks that cared enough to read it. I did.

the full text of the law was *not* on the ballot and voted for . The majority voted on the exemptions listed *ON THE BALLOT*

sENATOR sEITS LETTER TO Angie T. Huber
Vice President of Government Relations
Smoke Free Ohio stated

Because the misleading just goes on and on. The ballot language (copy attached ) plainly told voters that family-owned businesses and private clubs would be exempt. It did not say,“but only if they have no employees” nor did it include the other limiters that are in the law that you wrote to make these exemptions wholly illusory.

[Linda]

K, I'm amazed that you think people vote on laws months before they are written. People vote on what is written on a ballot

[Linda]

KHartman wrote:

<quoted text>
This happens with many issues. What you see on the ballot is a summary of the proposed law. The prepared voter doesn't wait till the day of the election to familiarize themselves with the issues or the candidates.
I knew exactly what I was voting for.

good for you, you voted for the exemptions listed on the ballot

[Freedom]

KHartman wrote:

<quoted text>
This happens with many issues. What you see on the ballot is a summary of the proposed law. The prepared voter doesn't wait till the day of the election to familiarize themselves with the issues or the candidates.
I knew exactly what I was voting for.

So...you went to the polls with the intention of removing the right for like minded people to gather together indoors on private property to enjoy a LEGAL lifestyle...even in a private club eh?

How socialistic of you.....

Tell us...what form of government is most likely to declare private clubs "public"?

Hhhhmmmm.

[Cincy Steve]

KHartman wrote:

<quoted text>
This happens with many issues. What you see on the ballot is a summary of the proposed law. The prepared voter doesn't wait till the day of the election to familiarize themselves with the issues or the candidates.
I knew exactly what I was voting for.

Since I don't want to have the same argument on two different threads, please refer to post 46702 http://www.topix.net/forum/health/smoking/THN...

[Linda]

Freedom wrote:

<quoted text>
So...you went to the polls with the intention of removing the right for like minded people to gather together indoors on private property to enjoy a LEGAL lifestyle...even in a private club eh?
How socialistic of you.....
Tell us...what form of government is most likely to declare private clubs "public"?
Hhhhmmmm.

Elections and ballots are not meant to be like blank checks or to be continued as they wish after the fact

[just ME]

WOW

http://www.yuref.com/r/24702/

[u cannot own me]

The Columbiana County Health Department has decided to stop being the enforcement agency for the state's smoking ban.
Why? Not because the health department doesn't agree that smoking is a health hazard, it just can't afford to be the policing agency for an unfunded mandate. A $3,800 state grant was provided for the first year of implementation, but it was not continued beyond that.
At the end of March, we reported that 269 violations had been reported in our county since the law took effect in May of 2007. The health department issued warnings to 20 taverns and clubs and fined 16 of those establishments between $100 and $1,000.
The health department receives 90 percent of the fine money, but some of the establishments wish to appeal their fines, which would require the health board to create an appeals board and retain an attorney to represent them at a hearing. This may cost the board more than it receives.
Also without the grant funds, enforcing the ban was causing the health board to take sanitarians away from well and septic inspections, as well as school safety inspections, to investigate smoking complaints. Other necessary programs were suffering at the expense of smoking ban enforcement.
Most of Ohio's non-smokers will tell you that they appreciate being able to breathe in public places, especially restaurants, without inhaling second-hand smoke. However, governing by referendum has many drawbacks. Unlike laws which are drawn up by Congress or the state legislature, referendums written by special interest groups and passed by voters rarely take into consideration all of the costs involved and the repercussions, such as lost business and resulting layoffs at the affected businesses.
Another similar health-oriented referendum is being proposed for the November ballot in Ohio - the Ohio Healthy Families Act. This law would require all Ohio businesses with more than 25 employees to give their workers seven paid sick days per year.
The Ohio Chamber of Commerce, as well as several of our local chambers, and Gov. Ted Strickland are opposing this measure saying that it, too, will hurt businesses and result in the loss of jobs. Everyone here knows that Ohio has been one of the states hit hardest by the current tough economic climate. We don't need shortsighted people pushing laws that can make conditions even worse.
Imposing healthy standards by referendum may sound good on the surface, but the framers of these laws need to figure out the costs involved, how to fund them and how we'll recover from any negative economic impact.
http://www.morningjournalnews.com/page/conten...

[Musician]

Looks like Issue 5 continues to lose even second hand steam.

[Freedom]

Linda wrote:

<quoted text>
Elections and ballots are not meant to be like blank checks or to be continued as they wish after the fact

You mean like voting on a law and filling in the blanks later? Now that is dangerous indeed.

What is even more dangerous however is allowing a vote on the removal of rights from a minority by popular opnion....that is by definition tryanny of the majority.

[u cannot own me]

Freedom wrote:

<quoted text>
You mean like voting on a law and filling in the blanks later? Now that is dangerous indeed.
What is even more dangerous however is allowing a vote on the removal of rights from a minority by popular opnion....that is by definition tryanny of the majority.

G-morning Freedom, I have never thought of counting and comparing the word count on the issues on the Nov 06 ballot but a man did, Thanks BB. Makes ya go hmmm, what did they hide to get the smoking ban voted in?

Issue 5,(smoking ban) question consisted of 216 words

Issue 3,“Gambling & College Scholarships” consisted of 924 words

Issue 2; the “Minimum Wage” amendment to the Ohio Constitution, consisted of 1,054 words

The description of Issue 4, the “Smoke Less” Constitutional amendment, 2,166 words

[u cannot own me]

Musician wrote:

Looks like Issue 5 continues to lose even second hand steam.

YEP!!! Causes me to giggle

[Freedom]

u cannot own me wrote:

<quoted text>
G-morning Freedom, I have never thought of counting and comparing the word count on the issues on the Nov 06 ballot but a man did, Thanks BB. Makes ya go hmmm, what did they hide to get the smoking ban voted in?
Issue 5,(smoking ban) question consisted of 216 words
Issue 3,“Gambling & College Scholarships” consisted of 924 words
Issue 2; the “Minimum Wage” amendment to the Ohio Constitution, consisted of 1,054 words
The description of Issue 4, the “Smoke Less” Constitutional amendment, 2,166 words

No question about it Linda....the antis knew exactly what they were doing. What a dirty trick to pull on those who fought to keep us free.

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...

Bill Seagraves, state commander of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, said he feels backers of the smoking ban duped many of his own members who supported the ban.

"If they didn't mislead us, why did they put private clubs were exempt on the ballot when that's not the case?" he said. "I've had people to call and tell me they voted for the smoking ban because they don't think there should be smoking in restaurants but they said I thought it wouldn't apply in our clubs."