Aiea woman excited for her saint in making

DENNIS ODA / STAR-BULLETIN Aiea's Audrey Toguchi said she was cured of cancer after praying to Father Damien at Kalaupapa, Molokai. Full Story
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Westsideray

Princeville, HI

#1 Jul 4, 2008
About time he became a Saint, I have been reading about him for years and years for his Sainthood. Finally.
Sue

Hilo, HI

#2 Jul 4, 2008
Strange isn't it? Damien never performed any miracles on the lepers.
Lou

Mililani, HI

#3 Jul 4, 2008
No disrespect to the good work done by Father Damien, but it would be interesting to know how many cases defy medical explanation. In such cases, how many patients prayed to be saved? And of those who prayed or did not pray, how many were successful?
Sue

Hilo, HI

#4 Jul 4, 2008
The Hawaii Medical Journal, 2000 Oct contains the article used as evidence during the Father Damien inquiry. The title of the article is "Complete spontaneous regression of cancer: four case reports, review of literature, and discussion of possible mechanisms involved" by W Y Chang (Audrey's doctor). Here is a citation:
Spontaneous regression or remission (SR) of cancers has been defined as the disappearance of the malignancies without any treatment or with obviously inadequate treatment. Four case reports are presented. These include a case of pleomorphic liposarcoma with bilateral lung metastases, a case of recurrent squamous cell carcinoma of the esophagus following esophagectomy a year earlier, a case of a squamous cell carcinoma of the scalp, and a case of a ruptured hepatocellular carcinoma with an emergency right hepatic lobectomy but with some gross cancer remaining in the left hepatic lobe. The literature of SR of cancers was reviewed and various mechanisms possibly involved in the disappearance of the cancers were discussed. Although immune modulation has been stated to be the most likely process causing SR, other mechanisms, such as genetic therapy, withdrawal of carcinogens, infection, fever and vaccine roles, apoptosis, antibody, antiangiogenesis and maturation mechanisms, withdrawal of therapy, natural killer activity, endocrine, hormonal, and pregnancy factors, and prayers or psychoneuro-religious participation were also mentioned. Induction and inhibition of malignant protein expression and repair of gene damage may prove to be the more important processes in cancer regression. It was also pointed out that the pulmonary metastases of the liposarcoma and the recurrent squamous cell carcinoma of the esophagus may be the very first cases of their kind to be described and that it is rare indeed to find 4 cases of SR's in a solo practice. Finally, it is likely that SR is rarer than previously believed and that the incidence may be one in every 140,000 cases of cancer rather the one per 60,000 to 100,000 cancer cases as earlier thought.(end of citation)
This is from the article written by Audrey's doctor.
"Four case reports are presented." The church ignores these.
Notice the weak phrase "prayers or psychoneuro-religious participation were also mentioned". "immune modulation has been stated to be the most likely process causing SR (spontaneous regression)"
Some people just get well. "it is likely that SR (spontaneous regression)is rarer than previously believed and that the incidence may be one in every 140,000 cases of cancer rather the one per 60,000 to 100,000 cancer cases as earlier thought."
So where is the miracle?
Any comments on the facts? or just more hurt feelings and name calling?
Martin Turow

Koloa, HI

#5 Jul 4, 2008
Does anyone happen to know why his body was returned to Belgium so late after his death? And why "a relic of his right hand" was returned to Molokai? It just seems strange. Why not let him rest where he did his life's greatest work?
Judy B

Hilo, HI

#6 Jul 4, 2008
Because catholics put a great emphasis on religious "relics". Catholics believe this is justified and right, and the rest of the world thinks they are superstitious and gullible.
Belgium wanted their relic back, and Molokai got the finger.
FR DAMIEN

Waterbury, CT

#7 Jul 4, 2008
For my third miracle, I'm going to make brains grow in Makawao posters.
Penny

Kaunakakai, HI

#8 Jul 4, 2008
In January '07, I was diagnosed with adenocarcinoma of the lung which had metastasised to my brain. I was given three to four months to live. I am nor religious, not Catholic and do not believe in prayer but I.ve lived on Moloka'i for live on Moloka`i and have lived her for thirty four years. I havereason to believe in Damien/s feisty and helpful attitude. I'd love to be cured of cancer. Chemotherapy has not had the desired effect. Gamma Laser Knife surgery seems to have worked fine twice. I had a string blessed by the Dalai Lama, Jewish family has their own prayer and I sourght and received Muslim prayer too. I've got Buddism covered too. I've lived much longer than expected and the quality of my ife is good. It has to be this aina and it's people who take good care of me. Should I declaired a miracle it is fine with me if credtt were given to St. Damien, to Moloka'i and o the people who love this island.

“in all things be pono, aloha”

Since: Aug 07

moloka'I, hawaii

#9 Jul 4, 2008
i believe there will be another miracle here on the island: this will improve our job situation and economy because of the increased visitor count. i just done't now where they will find places to stay. but oh wait! we just bought a 10 man tent!
Jew Blew

Honolulu, HI

#10 Jul 4, 2008
I used to pray hard hard hard but lost faith when the million dollars I wished for never materialized. Instead I got analized by a priest who said the money was inside me. Catholics so bulliars.
alice

Honolulu, HI

#11 Jul 4, 2008
Damien was a good man. No saint and he neevr delivered any miracles. But I honor him as a good man.

“in all things be pono, aloha”

Since: Aug 07

moloka'I, hawaii

#12 Jul 4, 2008
when we pray we may not receive from God in the way we were wishing, any more than a little kid gets from us whatever he wants, but as parents we do and give what is best for him, and so does our Father. He tries to build character in us rather than turning us into little demanding, spoiled divas. rebellion is the opposite of faith.
SLACK KEY

Waterbury, CT

#13 Jul 4, 2008
halemalu wrote:
when we pray ...faith.
Halemalu, did you get the info I sent you on Hawaii catchment systems a few weeks ago on the Molokai Ranch forum?
alice

Honolulu, HI

#14 Jul 4, 2008
I have no respect for the pope. Or his miracles,. Damien was a good, but not perfect man. He was heroic and that is enough to suggest. he was no saint.
SLACK KEY

Waterbury, CT

#15 Jul 4, 2008
halemalu wrote:
when we pray rebellion is the opposite of faith.
http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/R...
alice

Honolulu, HI

#16 Jul 4, 2008
Damien was a man with all the imperfections attached. He is no saint and would be embarrassed at that title. He did much good. Just leave it at that.

“in all things be pono, aloha”

Since: Aug 07

moloka'I, hawaii

#17 Jul 4, 2008
SLACK KEY wrote:
<quoted text>
Halemalu, did you get the info I sent you on Hawaii catchment systems a few weeks ago on the Molokai Ranch forum?
no i didn't get it. did you email it to me? thank you for the link, i bookmarked it and study it later. but first i am going to do something with all those over ripe mangoes. mango cobbler? mango omelette, or just put vodka on it and icecream on top?
No Miracle

Hilo, HI

#18 Jul 5, 2008
Which version is it?

http://starbulletin.com/2003/03/29/news/story...
"She had absolutely no treatment, not even a diet"

http://starbulletin.com/2008/07/04/news/story...
"She underwent surgery a year later. A tumor the size of a fist was removed from the side of her left thigh and buttock."

Don't confuse people with the facts. They want to believe in a miracle.
love waianae

Aiea, HI

#19 Jul 5, 2008
Catholics are nutz, just like muslims.
Sue M

New Ross, IN

#20 Jul 5, 2008
Sue wrote:
The Hawaii Medical Journal, 2000 Oct contains the article used as evidence during the Father Damien inquiry. The title of the article is "Complete spontaneous regression of cancer: four case reports, review of literature, and discussion of possible mechanisms involved" by W Y Chang (Audrey's doctor). Here is a citation:
Spontaneous regression or remission (SR) of cancers has been defined as the disappearance of the malignancies without any treatment or with obviously inadequate treatment. Four case reports are presented. These include a case of pleomorphic liposarcoma with bilateral lung metastases, a case of recurrent squamous cell carcinoma of the esophagus following esophagectomy a year earlier, a case of a squamous cell carcinoma of the scalp, and a case of a ruptured hepatocellular carcinoma with an emergency right hepatic lobectomy but with some gross cancer remaining in the left hepatic lobe. The literature of SR of cancers was reviewed and various mechanisms possibly involved in the disappearance of the cancers were discussed. Although immune modulation has been stated to be the most likely process causing SR, other mechanisms, such as genetic therapy, withdrawal of carcinogens, infection, fever and vaccine roles, apoptosis, antibody, antiangiogenesis and maturation mechanisms, withdrawal of therapy, natural killer activity, endocrine, hormonal, and pregnancy factors, and prayers or psychoneuro-religious participation were also mentioned. Induction and inhibition of malignant protein expression and repair of gene damage may prove to be the more important processes in cancer regression. It was also pointed out that the pulmonary metastases of the liposarcoma and the recurrent squamous cell carcinoma of the esophagus may be the very first cases of their kind to be described and that it is rare indeed to find 4 cases of SR's in a solo practice. Finally, it is likely that SR is rarer than previously believed and that the incidence may be one in every 140,000 cases of cancer rather the one per 60,000 to 100,000 cancer cases as earlier thought.(end of citation)
This is from the article written by Audrey's doctor.
"Four case reports are presented." The church ignores these.
Notice the weak phrase "prayers or psychoneuro-religious participation were also mentioned". "immune modulation has been stated to be the most likely process causing SR (spontaneous regression)"
Some people just get well. "it is likely that SR (spontaneous regression)is rarer than previously believed and that the incidence may be one in every 140,000 cases of cancer rather the one per 60,000 to 100,000 cancer cases as earlier thought."
So where is the miracle?
Any comments on the facts? or just more hurt feelings and name calling?
Thoughtful post; fair questions.

Well, you'd have to see the whole case presented by the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, to see what the Church officials involved were thinking. The Church generally doesn't think it's necessary that no scientific explanation be possible, ever, for a cure to be miraculous. That no medical/ scientific explanation be available at the time of the healing is good enough. "Some people just get well" is a legitmate observation, but it's not an explanation, really. Someday, there may be a scientific explanation for all four cases; but for now, the case that was of interest to the Church, because of the interest in canonizing Fr Damien, is the one in which the patient prayed to Fr Damien, and subsequently was healed.
I don't know the full thinking of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, nor that of the Pope, on this; but I guess it's to the effect that Fr Damien's intercession on this individual's behalf is a good enough explanation for the purpose of demonstrating the man's sanctity.

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