Elevated argument - Hawaii News

[Really]

Balance wrote:

<quoted text>
What do you mean when you post the garbled sentence "do you know understand English"? You have two verbs without a conjunction.
At any rate, I do understand the language perfectly well and I meant exactly what I said, that YOU are misreading the statistics. You quoted Rail Pandemic to obviously make a point with which you agree. YOU were wrong in your agreement with RP. The fact that Rail Pandemic is also wrong does not make you right.
Also Rail Pandemic's link does not give all the rates quoted in his/her post, i.e.:
"Fatality rates per 100,000,000 miles:
Cars are rated 1.5
Buses are rated .5
Commuter rail is rated less than 1
Light rail is rated less less than 1
Heavy rail is rated .5"
This does not negate the fact that, according to Rail Pandemic's post, cars are 300% more deadly. Relative fatality rates are extremely relevant to the choice of mode of travel. Otherwise, Rail Pandemic would not spend the time and effort to present accurate statistics.
I suggest you take a remedial English class.

Duh.

Post # 1974 exactly quotes what the opinion is of "Rail Pandemic" on the link "http://transitsafety.vo lpe. dot.gov/Data/sami ..."

Duh.

[How Many Die]

Really wrote:

<quoted text>
Duh.
Post # 1974 exactly quotes what the opinion is of "Rail Pandemic" on the link "http://transitsafety.vo lpe. dot.gov/Data/sami ..."
Duh.

Since I am the one who quoted Rail Pandemic originally, I am giving you the specifics: Check post #96 where Rail Pandemic presents data clearly showing that highways are 300% more deadly, just like "Balance" explained to you. Your attacking "Balance" with half truths shows your deceitful ways.

[How Many Die]

Really wrote:

<quoted text>
Really? Explain? Really, No matter what kind of statistics you bring forth you do not scare car owners one bit with your "Highways are dangerous".
Another website (http://www.aiam.org/public/aiam/safety/crash_... ) put up the figure of 6.024 million in the number of car crashes in 2007. Of those number 37,248 resulted in fatalities.

Since you are backpedaling to save face, try to deny that you told us that in 2007 37,248 people died on American highways, and that there were 6.024 million crashes that same year. You are simply ignoring all this death, injury and property damage to save a few minutes.

[Really]

How Many Die wrote:

<quoted text>
Since you are backpedaling to save face, try to deny that you told us that in 2007 37,248 people died on American highways, and that there were 6.024 million crashes that same year. You are simply ignoring all this death, injury and property damage to save a few minutes.

Duh.

[Really]

How Many Die wrote:

<quoted text>
Since I am the one who quoted Rail Pandemic originally, I am giving you the specifics: Check post #96 where Rail Pandemic presents data clearly showing that highways are 300% more deadly, just like "Balance" explained to you. Your attacking "Balance" with half truths shows your deceitful ways.

Duh

[Planner]

Really wrote:

State aims to unclog H-1 freeway
2 lanes will be added: 1 at Middle Street and 1 from Radford Drive to H-2's merge
STORY SUMMARY | READ THE FULL STORY
Gov. Linda Lingle and some lawmakers expressed support for plans unveiled yesterday by the Department of Transportation to reduce peak-hour traffic congestion for commuters to or from West Oahu.
With developments that include the University of Hawaii at West Oahu and other planned projects in Leeward Oahu, Lingle said, "It can't happen at a moment too soon."
One of the projects will add a lane for eastbound commuters on the H-1 freeway from Ola Lane to Vineyard Boulevard to help reduce congestion at the Middle Street merge.
The other project entails adding a lane for westbound commuters in the afternoon by contra-flowing an eastbound freeway lane from Radford Drive to the Waiawa Interchange.

False. Simple math shows that neither a Train nor an additional "OLA Lane-Vineyard" nor a westbound Contra Flow will solve the three major bottlenecks. Simple math.

[alice]

rail is a total bust already

[Really]

Planner wrote:

<quoted text>
False. Simple math shows that neither a Train nor an additional "OLA Lane-Vineyard" nor a westbound Contra Flow will solve the three major bottlenecks. Simple math.

Converting those 2 lanes into an HOV lane will ease traffic somewhat. But most of all it will make Rail irrelevant because when the Bus Express gets to bypass the two areas of traffic congestion people will flock to the Bus Express instead of the train. That's because people would reach their destination much faster than taking a slow moving train that stops every mile of the way.

[Rail Pandemic]

This is all the text in post # 95 (this was the very first post by "How Many Die "] in the "Elevated argument" topic:

How Many Die wrote:

<quoted text>
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

Look at the data chart you posted HMD:

It shows Fatal Crashes for National Statistics are GOING DOWN SINCE 2002.

Fatal Crashes are even LOWER today than in 1994 even though more people choose to drive.

The chart YOU post also shows a massive increase in Vehicle Miles Traveled since 1994 to 2008, up over 600 billion miles traveled since 1994 to a new high of 2.9 trillion Miles Traveled in 2008 , yet since then the Fatalities per 100 Million Vehicle Miles Traveled HAS DROPPED EVERY YEAR since 1994!

Registered Vehicle totals have INCREASED since 1994, up by over 60 million, yet fatalities per 100,000 Registered Vehicles HAS DROPPED EVERY YEAR since 1994 (21.15) to 16.13 in 2007!

Licensed Drivers have INCREASED from 175 million in 1994, to 205 million in 2008,(more cars and drivers) yet since then the Fatalities per 100 Million Vehicle Miles Traveled HAS DROPPED EVERY YEAR since 1994!

Lets look at what the chart YOU posted states have INCREASED:
Vehicle Miles Traveled, Registered Vehicles, Licensed Drivers, and Resident Population...

Yet EVERY YEAR the chart you post shows a DECREASE in Fatalities per 100 Million Vehicle Miles Traveled, Fatalities per 100,000 Population, Fatalities per 100,000 Registered Vehicles, and Fatalities per 100,000 Licensed Drivers.

This chart proves YOU DON'T even read your own links that you post.
It shows how you've FAILED and choose not to recognize that Vehicle Miles Traveled, Registered Vehicles, Licensed Drivers, and the Resident Population have all INCREASED,(more cars and drivers), yet EVERY YEAR in this chart shows a DECREASE in Fatalities per 100 Million Vehicle Miles Traveled, Fatalities per 100,000 Population, Fatalities per 100,000 Registered Vehicles, and Fatalities per 100,000 Licensed Drivers.

Thank you How Many Die for the valuable data chart you've posted (post # 95) showing and proving that the increase in cars and drivers over the last 15 years shows a DECREASE in Fatalities in National Statistics, EVERY YEAR since 1994.

[Congestion Unresolved]

Dr. Prevedouros describes our traffic congestion problem:

Dr. Prevedouros, Professor of Traffic Engineering at UH, yesterday in the Hawaii Reporter asked and answered the question, Is There a Plan to Solve Traffic Congestion of Oahu?

He tells us that, "Unlike most other urban areas, where congestion decreased slightly from two years ago, the latest Urban Mobility Report from the Texas Transportation Institute shows that congestion has gotten worse in Honolulu."

"Of course it is not new to residents that Honolulu is a congested city. Honolulu is one of the nation’s most lane deficient cities. It has a traffic congestion problem; not a transit ridership problem. A traffic problem cannot be solved with transit solutions."

"Some say that Honolulu has such severe congestion because its car ownership is very high. Some politicians even claim that Honolulu is number one in car ownership. This is totally wrong. Honolulu’s car ownership ranks 64th in the nation, much lower than its rank in population!"

"So are we going to see an improvement in congestion? The rail proposal clearly says that:(1) TheBus carries 6% of the trips on Oahu now, and (2) TheBus and TheRail together will carry 7% of the trips 20 years from now. What’s the end result? Much worse traffic congestion."

Read the whole op/ed where he interviews two of the nation's leading urban transportation experts and also answers his own question. Of course there is no plan to work on traffic congestion; we only have rail plans.

[Uninformed]

Congestion Unresolved wrote:

Dr. Prevedouros describes our traffic congestion problem:
Dr. Prevedouros, Professor of Traffic Engineering at UH, yesterday in the Hawaii Reporter asked and answered the question, Is There a Plan to Solve Traffic Congestion of Oahu?
He tells us that, "Unlike most other urban areas, where congestion decreased slightly from two years ago, the latest Urban Mobility Report from the Texas Transportation Institute shows that congestion has gotten worse in Honolulu."
"Of course it is not new to residents that Honolulu is a congested city. Honolulu is one of the nation’s most lane deficient cities. It has a traffic congestion problem; not a transit ridership problem. A traffic problem cannot be solved with transit solutions."
"Some say that Honolulu has such severe congestion because its car ownership is very high. Some politicians even claim that Honolulu is number one in car ownership. This is totally wrong. Honolulu’s car ownership ranks 64th in the nation, much lower than its rank in population!"
"So are we going to see an improvement in congestion? The rail proposal clearly says that:(1) TheBus carries 6% of the trips on Oahu now, and (2) TheBus and TheRail together will carry 7% of the trips 20 years from now. What’s the end result? Much worse traffic congestion."
Read the whole op/ed where he interviews two of the nation's leading urban transportation experts and also answers his own question. Of course there is no plan to work on traffic congestion; we only have rail plans.

Have you heard of the State's $4 billion highway modernization plan?

[How Many Die]

Rail Pandemic wrote:

This is all the text in post # 95 (this was the very first post by "How Many Die "] in the "Elevated argument" topic:
<quoted text>
Look at the data chart you posted HMD:
It shows Fatal Crashes for National Statistics are GOING DOWN SINCE 2002.

I am aware of this trend. After all I posted the link. What you do not realize in your hurry to make a point is that fatalities of transit modes have also been GOING DOWN as well. How do I know this? From YOUR post #96:

"Total Fatalities by transit mode in 1998: 286
in 1999: 299
in 2000: 295
in 2001: 267
in 2002: 280
in 2003: 234
in 2004: 248
in 2005: 236
in 2006: 227 "

Rail Pandemic, you are all wet again. You are only looking at one side of the comparison, totally ignoring your own data. It is the relative rate that counts. Highways are still 300% more deadly.

[alice]

no money to build the rail

[Rail Pandemic]

How Many Die wrote:

<quoted text>
What you do not realize is that fatalities of transit modes have also been GOING DOWN as well.
Rail Pandemic, you are all wet again. You are only looking at one side of the comparison, totally ignoring your own data. It is the relative rate that counts. Highways are still 300% more deadly.

No, you are the one who is all wet.
Read the data chart again...
http://transit-safety.volpe.dot.gov/Data/sami...
What you do not realize is that fatalities on public transit modes HAVE NOT been going down as you spew, but fatality rates have increased, and this chart shows that if you just look at it...

The 2006 fatalities rate was 22% higher the next year in 2007 on public transit, an INCREASE in fatalities from 227 in 2006 to 288 in 2007.

What the data chart does show is that Commuter Rail (CR), Heavy Rail (HR), and Light Rail (LR) have had a 22% INCREASE in the passenger fatality rate on all rail modes,(CR, HR, LR) from 2006 to 2007.

I am not ignoring the data, you just want to rant on that "highways are still 300% more deadly than rail...fine. Do what you please, but you are wrong.

Total passenger miles:

Commuter rail: 9,102,553,926
Heavy rail: 4,681,146,806
Light rail: 1,806,248,516
http://transit-safety.volpe.dot.gov/Data/sami...
(this link shows vehicle miles by mode and year)

Cars: 2,900,000,000,000
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
(2.9 trillion passenger miles traveled in 2008)
(this link shows passenger miles traveled by cars in 2008)

If rail had traveled 2.9 trillion passenger miles as cars did in 2008, then this is 193.3 times MORE than the amount traveled by all rail modes in a year (15 billion passenger miles in total on rail).

When you multiply 288 (2007 public transit fatalities) X 193.3 = 55,680 public transit fatalities if 2.9 trillion passenger miles had been traveled on public transit/rail vs. by comparison 2.9 trillion passenger miles traveled by motor vehicles in 2008.

[How Many Die]

Rail Pandemic wrote:

<quoted text>
No, you are the one who is all wet.
Read the data chart again...

Read YOUR data again (post #96):

"Total Fatalities by transit mode in 1998: 286
in 1999: 299
in 2000: 295
in 2001: 267
in 2002: 280
in 2003: 234
in 2004: 248
in 2005: 236
in 2006: 227 "

From about 290 to about 230 is a DECREASE, no matter how you spin it.

[Rail Pandemic]

How Many Die wrote:

<quoted text>
Read YOUR data again (post #96):
"Total Fatalities by transit mode in 1998: 286
in 1999: 299
in 2000: 295
in 2001: 267
in 2002: 280
in 2003: 234
in 2004: 248
in 2005: 236
in 2006: 227 "
From about 290 to about 230 is a DECREASE, no matter how you spin it.

No. You are wrong no matter how you spin it.
http://transit-safety.volpe.dot.gov/Data/sami...
Open the link and READ the data chart again. The trend is was an increase in fatalities, up 22% from 2006 to 2007.

The 2006 fatalities rate was 22% higher the next year in 2007 on public transit, an INCREASE in fatalities from 227 in 2006 to 288 in 2007.

What the data chart does show is that Commuter Rail (CR), Heavy Rail (HR), and Light Rail (LR) have had a 22% INCREASE in the passenger fatality rate on all rail modes,(CR, HR, LR) from 2006 to 2007.

I am not ignoring the data, you just want to rant on that "highways are still 300% more deadly than rail...fine. Do what you please, but you are wrong.

Total passenger miles:

Commuter rail: 9,102,553,926
Heavy rail: 4,681,146,806
Light rail: 1,806,248,516
http://transit-safety.volpe.dot.gov/Data/sami...
(this link shows vehicle miles by mode and year)

Cars: 2,900,000,000,000
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
(2.9 trillion passenger miles traveled in 2008)
(this link shows passenger miles traveled by cars in 2008)

If rail had traveled 2.9 trillion passenger miles as cars did in 2008, then this is 193.3 times MORE than the amount traveled by all rail modes in a year (15 billion passenger miles in total on rail).

When you multiply 288 (2007 public transit fatalities) X 193.3 = 55,680 public transit fatalities if 2.9 trillion passenger miles had been traveled on public transit/rail vs. by comparison 2.9 trillion passenger miles traveled by motor vehicles in 2008.

[Really]

Hey, "Rail Pandemic", why not just ignore this imbecile who keeps posting over and over and over stats on highway fatalities.

Highway fatalities are meaningless and irrelevant to the topic of "Elevated argument".

[Maverick]

Really wrote:

<quoted text>
Converting those 2 lanes into an HOV lane will ease traffic somewhat. But most of all it will make Rail irrelevant because when the Bus Express gets to bypass the two areas of traffic congestion people will flock to the Bus Express instead of the train. That's because people would reach their destination much faster than taking a slow moving train that stops every mile of the way.

No way Jose...duh

[Rail Pandemic]

Really wrote:

Hey, "Rail Pandemic", why not just ignore this imbecile who keeps posting over and over and over stats on highway fatalities.
Highway fatalities are meaningless and irrelevant to the topic of "Elevated argument".

True. The posted data links speak volumes and proves that the imbecile rants are wrong, meaningless and irrelevant.
Task complete: Unfriend HMD

[Really]

Maverick wrote:

<quoted text>No way Jose...duh

Duh. No way? How and why? Duh.