Elevated argument - Hawaii News

Elevated argument - Hawaii News

There are 2573 comments on the Honolulu Star-Bulletin story from May 19, 2009, titled Elevated argument - Hawaii News. In it, Honolulu Star-Bulletin reports that:

The city's plan for a 20-mile elevated rail transit system worries many architects.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

Really

Waipahu, HI

#2575 Jan 5, 2010
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>whoa! That statement of yours about the wheel not being invented before automobiles were being produced is wrong on so many levels.
You are just totally hopeless.
You are just totally hopeless. An echo who failed to guess the time period of "Eat or get eaten". Yes, Mr. Echo, what time period was I talking about when I said the wheel was not invented yet and it was a matter of "Eat or get eaten"?

Why is it people can not understand that Oahu just can never afford Rail? And discussing the affairs of Oahu with outsiders like Tsarbomba is meaningless.
Jerry Tsai

Wahiawa, HI

#2576 Jan 6, 2010
Rail suuuucks as is. Too little for way too much. I hope Mufi stays around. I want to hear him say, "I said I'd take elevated rail off the table if needed. In this economy we need a more comprehensive and cost-efficient transportation and development plan for Oahu. Let the transit money accrue interest. In the meantime let's merge job creation with the following: cheaper energy solutions, simpler transportation alternatives, basic infrastructure repair and releiving traffic congestion through technology."

If he did this, I would be his best friend.
Realistic

Wailuku, HI

#2577 Jan 6, 2010
Tsarbomba wrote:
<quoted text>
Expectations for a cost estimate now for rail extension projects is unrealistic.
How can it be "unrealistic" in your opinion? Obviously you feel that spending $5.5 billion dollars on 20 miles of elevated heavy rail is realistic from your perspective, but how many more multi-billions in cost is unrealistic when local taxpayers are funding this train system without real cost facts?
Don't the Feds have an expectation that requires that cost estimates must be provided in advance for a through review on any project this massive? Both the 2006 AA report on rail and the Notice of Intent to prepare the 2007 DraftEIS show the rail route from Kalaeloa to Waikiki/UHManoa.
Tsarbomba, you've explained that we can't know the cost of a gallon milk or a gallon gas ten years in the future.... Yet, if rail opens in 2019 as the mayor claims it must, why should Oahu residents expect any "valid" cost estimates in 2010 on a rail project that's not even in existence until year 2019? Why not inform the public on a revised cost estimate for heavy rail spending on the Kalaeloa to Waikiki/UHManoa rail route as was planned by the Mayor and his rail "experts" four years ago in the 2006 AA report? Obviously rail will cost more than $5.5 billion dollars, so why not tell all Oahu residents the full build out cost estimate for the complete system now before we start to break ground on a rail to nowhere?
alice

United States

#2578 Jan 6, 2010
no need to rail now..population is declining fast
Tsarbomba

Corona, CA

#2579 Jan 6, 2010
Realistic wrote:
Yet, if rail opens in 2019 as the mayor claims it must, why should Oahu residents expect any "valid" cost estimates in 2010 on a rail project that's not even in existence until year 2019?
Initial phase opens in 2012.
Reality

Honolulu, HI

#2580 Jan 6, 2010
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
You are just totally hopeless. An echo who failed to guess the time period of "Eat or get eaten". Yes, Mr. Echo, what time period was I talking about when I said the wheel was not invented yet and it was a matter of "Eat or get eaten"?
Why is it people can not understand that Oahu just can never afford Rail? And discussing the affairs of Oahu with outsiders like Tsarbomba is meaningless.
haha! poor baby. you made a boo boo and now you are trying to correct yourself.

It doesn't matter anymore about whether we can afford rail or not. The Mayor approved it, City Council approved it, State DOT approved it, the contracts are agreed to and signed, and all that is left is for the Feds to approve the doctored EIS and then it will be a done deal.
Realistic

Wailuku, HI

#2581 Jan 6, 2010
Tsarbomba wrote:
<quoted text>
Initial phase opens in 2012.
You must be dreaming again Tsarbomba.
Are you referring to the initial phase of heavy steel rail built on the empty farm lands in Kapolei that will not have a ridership base to serve?
Has that agriculture land in Kapolei been rezoned for development yet by the Honolulu Department of Planning and Permitting ? Not yet you say?
How is this realistic when rail never broke ground as was promised by the mayor last year?
Where is the revised final EIS on rail for public review? Who will the ridership base be to ride a train that has three of the first rail stations built in empty fields with no surrounding homes, businesses or roads?
Where would these rail riders go on a transit platform that does not serve established residential neighborhoods?

You can't just continue to ignore the many problems with this flawed rail plan. You need to get your head out of the sand.
Tsarbomba

Corona, CA

#2582 Jan 6, 2010
Realistic wrote:
You must be dreaming again Tsarbomba.
.....
"Yet, if rail opens in 2019," you made a simplistic remark, you get a simplistic answer. There is no dreaming in rebutting that statement. Why do you now shift the topic of discussion? Not one of your barrage of questions affects valid cost estimation for a project that opens in 2012 and wraps up in 2019.
alice

United States

#2583 Jan 6, 2010
Rail is done..will never pass an audit or EIS. No need for it now that folks are leaving Hawaii in droves.
rail tax

Honolulu, HI

#2585 Jan 6, 2010
Tsarbomba wrote:
<quoted text>
Questions don't affect a project that opens in 2012 and wraps up in 2019.
In 1789 Ben Franklin observed that nothing is certain except for death and taxes.

221 years later, Tsarbomba observed that nothing is certain except for rail and taxes.
Really

Waipahu, HI

#2586 Jan 6, 2010
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>haha! poor baby. you made a boo boo and now you are trying to correct yourself.
It doesn't matter anymore about whether we can afford rail or not. The Mayor approved it, City Council approved it, State DOT approved it, the contracts are agreed to and signed, and all that is left is for the Feds to approve the doctored EIS and then it will be a done deal.
Not really a done deal. You forgot about Governor Lingle.
Really

Waipahu, HI

#2587 Jan 6, 2010
Pro-rail moochers like "Reality" are just like little children who have no care in the world and just love to ride the train. "Reality" began pestering me with his "echo" like a naughty little boy and ended up showing his true colors - a parasite who does not care if the people of Oahu can not afford rail.
Rail Pandemic

Wailuku, HI

#2588 Jan 8, 2010
Tsarbomba wrote:
<quoted text>Questions don't affect valid cost estimation for a project that opens in 2012 and wraps up in 2019.
Questions do affect cost estimations on the rail scam. Hence, the many freedom of information act requests.
Tsarbomba, I know you want to continue to ignore the vast problems with this heavy rail project, but....you need to wake up.

"An FTA memo and other documents were obtained yesterday by The Advertiser under a Freedom of Information request.

The FTA memo dated Oct. 7, 2009 stated, "While the city already has in place a dedicated funding source, project costs have reached a point where they EXCEED the projected capacity of that source."

The federal agency's approval of the rail project is important because the city hopes the agency will eventually provide $1.55 billon of the estimated $5.3 billion cost.

Groundbreaking on the 20-mile elevated rail line from East Kapolei to Ala Moana has been delayed while the city gathers backing from various federal and state officials.

The bulk of the money for building the rail line is to come from a half-percentage-point surcharge that was added to the general excise tax in Honolulu in January 2007. However, the slowdown in Hawai'i's economy caused tax collections to fall below estimates for much of last year.

The FTA said "collections have under-run projections made before the current economic downturn. Consequently, financial issues may pose difficulties sufficient to put at risk the city's anticipated initiation of final design in early 2010."
From 1/7/10-Front page, A-1: www.Honoluluadvertiser.com
Reality

Honolulu, HI

#2590 Jan 11, 2010
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Not really a done deal. You forgot about Governor Lingle.
She can't do anything because State DOT signed off on the project already. She is just blowing more hot air.
Really

Waipahu, HI

#2591 Jan 11, 2010
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>She can't do anything because State DOT signed off on the project already. She is just blowing more hot air.
Really. Do you not know that the EIS has to go thru Lingle's desk for approval. And without Lingle's approval of the EIS Rail is dead.
alice

United States

#2592 Jan 11, 2010
we don't need this bad project
Rail Pandemic

Wailuku, HI

#2593 Jan 11, 2010
"State office says city rail committee was "exempt" from State sunshine laws requiring them to keep minutes"

From: Honolulu Advertiser 1/11/10

"The city committee members won't have to disclose further details about what happened during the meetings because the five-member committee didn't keep minutes, according to the state Office of Information Practices."

"A city committee that reviewed construction bids for Honolulu's planned rail project did not keep minutes of meetings that led to the awarding a $483 million construction contract to build the first phase of the rail line.

A separate, four-member city contract evaluation committee did keep minutes of a meeting in July 2007 that led to awarding a much smaller rail-related contract. Those minutes were eventually released to the public and showed that some committee members expressed disappointment, and one committee member said the city should have done MORE to publicize the contract."

City transportation director Wayne Yoshioka stated the decision on "whether or not to keep" evaluation committee meeting minutes or to "disclose further details" about what happened during those meetings is up to the committee members.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/201...
Rail Pandemic

Wailuku, HI

#2594 Jan 11, 2010
Posted on January 11, 2010- by JENNIFER CABALA, KING 5 News

SEATTLE- "It's almost impossible to find parking near light rail station in Seattle, and the city is making it a lot harder. They're cracking down on property owners offering long-term parking in light rail zones.

If you want to ride light rail you now have three options: walk, ride the bus or figure out how to smuggle your car into the neighborhood. There is almost no legal long term parking in the area and the city wanted it that way.

Long before the light rail carried its first passengers, the City of Seattle decided not to provide any parking by the stations.

"We don't want the areas around the light rail stations to become acres of parking areas and parking lots," said Councilman Tom Rasmussen, Chair of the Transportation Committee.

In fact the city made it nearly impossible to get long term parking near the stations. Extended neighborhood parking requires a permit, and local companies were forbidden from offering long term parking in their lots.

KING 5 has obtained letters to at least four property owners ordering them to stop using their lots for long term parking, but people who would like to use light rail say in many cases there is no way to get to light rail without driving there.

"If you live in Renton, it's quicker to drive here park and take rail. They should have prepared for parking," said one resident.

The city recognizes it's a problem but has no intention of adding parking, saying the quality of life for people who live in the neighborhood has to outweigh the convenience to light rail users.

"We want people to enjoy living in their neighborhoods and the more those areas become places where people want to park cheaply the less they will be areas where people will want to be," said Rasmussen."

http://www.nwcn.com/news/washington/Seattle-c...

One Seattle resident posted this: "Typical of the transit systems in this area...if you build it they WON'T come. No wonder the ridership for light rail is so low compared to what they were estimating. Sound Transit...just another name for idiotic spending."

And another Seattle post:
"Just one more example of Sound Transit being utterly BRAIN DAMAGED - spend billions on a rail system that only people within walking distance can use... Another example: Run it right past one of the biggest shopping centers in the region, but don't bother to put a station there.... Can't believe we voted to increase and extend the sales tax for them to spend another 20 years wasting billions more $ building more rail stations that on one can/will use..."
LLWfan

Kihei, HI

#2595 Jan 12, 2010
Rail sucks big time, Mufi is a crook, this is one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on Hawaii taxpayers, we cannot afford it, only a small percentage of Hawaii population will actually use it, alot of pro railers who post have something to benefit from this rail project whether it be monetary or status. This rail pig needs to be stopped and not shoved down the Hawaii taxpayers throats. As an American taxpaying citizen in Hawaii it is our obligation to do everything in our power to fight against this injustice being executed against Hawaii citizens and it's future generations.
Fred Keahiani

Wahiawa, HI

#2596 Jan 12, 2010
Rail Pandemic wrote:
"State office says city rail committee was "exempt" from State sunshine laws requiring them to keep minutes"
From: Honolulu Advertiser 1/11/10
"The city committee members won't have to disclose further details about what happened during the meetings because the five-member committee didn't keep minutes, according to the state Office of Information Practices."
"A city committee that reviewed construction bids for Honolulu's planned rail project did not keep minutes of meetings that led to the awarding a $483 million construction contract to build the first phase of the rail line.
A separate, four-member city contract evaluation committee did keep minutes of a meeting in July 2007 that led to awarding a much smaller rail-related contract. Those minutes were eventually released to the public and showed that some committee members expressed disappointment, and one committee member said the city should have done MORE to publicize the contract."
City transportation director Wayne Yoshioka stated the decision on "whether or not to keep" evaluation committee meeting minutes or to "disclose further details" about what happened during those meetings is up to the committee members.
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/201...
Interesting! The whole rail venture stinks. It was a shaky idea to start with. It's a really BAD idea now. It will ruin the landscape and sink us financially, and will never fix traffic congestion.

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