Elevated argument - Hawaii News

Elevated argument - Hawaii News

There are 2568 comments on the Honolulu Star-Bulletin story from May 19, 2009, titled Elevated argument - Hawaii News. In it, Honolulu Star-Bulletin reports that:

The city's plan for a 20-mile elevated rail transit system worries many architects.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

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Just a GI

Somersworth, NH

#1 May 19, 2009
If the thing has to be elevated, it should go over the H1 right-of-way where it could shade cars and reduce road rage. I suppose it would spoil the views from the highway, though.
Lani

United States

#2 May 19, 2009
I wouldn't count on that federal money.
former local boy

United States

#3 May 19, 2009
Just a GI wrote:
If the thing has to be elevated, it should go over the H1 right-of-way where it could shade cars and reduce road rage. I suppose it would spoil the views from the highway, though.
Have you ever been to a large city with a transit system? You need to think of how people will enter and exit the system. These "hubs" or metro stops need to be centered around business and/or be easily accessible. Please tell me how that would be accomplished with the rail system flying over the H1.
Still From Heeia

Dallas, TX

#4 May 19, 2009
What's the rush with elevated commuter rail? Does the City have blinders on? Don't they read the same papers we do, talking about services being cut, about the Boat and the Superferry being cancelled, about schools being closed? We're in a recession! And what's with Okino saying that rail could "pay for itself"? What a fairy tale! Factor in massive taxpayer subsidies, the cost of financing, and the cost of constructing elevated rail, and you're not going to see rail pay for itself, EVER. Build rail, and traffic will not improve, the landscape will be ruined, people will still drive from Kapolei to town in droves, and the taxpayers will get soaked once again by our inept City government. Alooooha.
john w bienko

Ottawa, Canada

#5 May 19, 2009
Every person and building along the proposed route will suffer extraordinary damage to health and quality of life. People using and living on the streets at ground level will lose the view of the sky and surrounding landscapes forever.
An earthquake, tsunami or power failure will create a transportation nightmare.
The costs and debt load are not sustainable to the taxpayer/citizens. It is apparent the estimates do not reflect the future real costs. These will be double/triple the estimates.
Aloha Oe
former local boy

United States

#6 May 19, 2009
john w bienko wrote:
Every person and building along the proposed route will suffer extraordinary damage to health and quality of life. People using and living on the streets at ground level will lose the view of the sky and surrounding landscapes forever.
An earthquake, tsunami or power failure will create a transportation nightmare.
The costs and debt load are not sustainable to the taxpayer/citizens. It is apparent the estimates do not reflect the future real costs. These will be double/triple the estimates.
Aloha Oe
Please, please explain how a transit system not running on fossil fuels and having zero emissions will cause health issues. Also, how will a natural disaster cause a transportation nightmare any different than if rail was not built? And how do you, oh great economist with a PHd in sociology and macro-economics, know that the cost and debt loads are not sustainable? So every other country and major US city out there with an elevated rail transit system is slowly going bankrupt? Please don't just spout incendiary comments without facts, or common sense to back up your wild claims.
former local boy

United States

#7 May 19, 2009
Still From Heeia wrote:
What's the rush with elevated commuter rail? Does the City have blinders on? Don't they read the same papers we do, talking about services being cut, about the Boat and the Superferry being cancelled, about schools being closed? We're in a recession! And what's with Okino saying that rail could "pay for itself"? What a fairy tale! Factor in massive taxpayer subsidies, the cost of financing, and the cost of constructing elevated rail, and you're not going to see rail pay for itself, EVER. Build rail, and traffic will not improve, the landscape will be ruined, people will still drive from Kapolei to town in droves, and the taxpayers will get soaked once again by our inept City government. Alooooha.
For one, The Boat and Superferry are not being paid for by a direct tax established for their creation and upkeep; 2, many US cities and countries with rail transit actually do break even, some even making a small profit with revenue from ridership, advertisement, retail sales, and right-of-way leases; 3, traffic will improve (which is a proven fact in every city where transit has been built) by taking cars off the road; 4, people will take the train once it is built and they can finally see the reality of its benefits. It is easy to mock something before its built and before you can see its actual effect.

Once again, I say get out of the islands and see the world. See all the great cities that have mass transit systems and see how clean most are, how efficient they are, and how much cheaper they are to use than owning a car.
Waaaaa waaaaaa waaaaaa

Honolulu, HI

#8 May 19, 2009
The architects sure are getting a lot of mileage out of this. A few months ago, nobody had heard of this group. All of a sudden, its status is immense, at least with the media and the anti-railers...
Flexo

Honolulu, HI

#9 May 19, 2009
former local boy wrote:
<quoted text>
Please, please explain how a transit system not running on fossil fuels and having zero emissions will cause health issues. Also, how will a natural disaster cause a transportation nightmare any different than if rail was not built? And how do you, oh great economist with a PHd in sociology and macro-economics, know that the cost and debt loads are not sustainable? So every other country and major US city out there with an elevated rail transit system is slowly going bankrupt? Please don't just spout incendiary comments without facts, or common sense to back up your wild claims.
Rail will run on electricity which is generated by burning fossil fuel. That's how we make our electricity in Honolulu. Do you get it now? We already know from the city's own figures that rail will require subsiidies in the neighborhood of $100 million a year. That's probably an under estimate. No way it will ever pay for itself with those kinds of subsidies.
The only thing we can do to help ourselves is to build at grade, saving quite a bit of money. With that saved money we might even be able to build the UH segment which would truly help our traffic situation. Further, there's no logical reason to make it elevated between Kapolei and Waipahu. There's no infrastructure to avoid, the route goes through former sugar lands.
manini

Honolulu, HI

#10 May 19, 2009
former local boy wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you ever been to a large city with a transit system? You need to think of how people will enter and exit the system. These "hubs" or metro stops need to be centered around business and/or be easily accessible. Please tell me how that would be accomplished with the rail system flying over the H1.
I assume they would access the stations the same way they are going to access the ones that are going to be flying over Honolulu.
s dogood

Honolulu, HI

#11 May 19, 2009
It is MADNESS to be spending SO MUCH for Rail in this time of such severe budget problems. When the City council raises bus fares to $2.25 to cover budget shortfalls, there's something SERIOUSLY WRONG with this picture.

I just returned from the Mainland where I saw a rapid transit rail pass numerous times with less than 6 total passengers. And they are having HUGE problems with money to keep the rail running.

This is an INSANE PROJECT that going to cost us all dearly for years to come. Now more than ever we need to STOP the RAIL idea forever. WAKE UP HAWAII!!you've been sold FULL OF BALONEY idea by some FULL of BALONEY PEDDLERS.
Dakar

Wahiawa, HI

#12 May 19, 2009
There are so many things that need to be done to reduce traffic, from double-decking the H1 in town (should've been done years ago) to better access & exits (e.g., the H1 & McCully) to improved intersections to implementing TSM (transportation system management) techniques that would make our existing system flow more efficiently. Those items would have SIGNIFICANTLY more impact than the proposed rail, and the savings we could have by building an at-grade light-rail system would more than pay for them.
kapaa

Lihue, HI

#13 May 19, 2009
all the naysayers are wasting their breath! when mufi becomes governor it will be an elevated rail system and the super ferry will be back right around that time ..so all the hippies on kauai can get ready to be ferryized!
Chicken Little

United States

#14 May 19, 2009
i been scared too ...

what if dat ting ...

fall on my head ...

den what ....
ENGINEER

Waipahu, HI

#15 May 19, 2009
Well people, wake up with MAGLEV we could save the 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS in construction and operating and maintennace costs. In these hard times of no money this would solve many of our problems and we could finish the whole system from Kapolei to UH Manoa. This would also increase ridership as riders would not have to transer to buses to get to UH in 49 minutes. Another plus for MAGLEV is that the guideway is only 21 feet wide versus 31 feet for Steel. This is the big savings for construction cost reduction of HALF A BILLION DOLLARS!!! Please call your councilman and Mayor to let MAGLEV compete.
eracism

Kaneohe, HI

#16 May 19, 2009
only the iwi kupuna can stop the rail
and the crown lands konohiki title
claims. go getum iwi!
GO GREEN

Waipahu, HI

#17 May 19, 2009
The big question is why the City with their great planners only have 900 parking spaces in Kapolei. With 130,000 people from Waianae, Makakilo, Ewa, and Kapolei most people will drive to save the 15 minutes to wait, walk and transfer from a circulator. If the city does not provide adequate parking this rail system will be a travesty and will never get the ridership because it would not save people that much time as it would not be convenient. Please Mr. Mayor support the people of the Ewa Plains with adequate parking don't just promise and don't deliver a world class system. The space could be used for farmers markets, 50th state fair, and the relocation of Aloha stadium if we have the 90 acres for 10,000 spaces of parking.
eracism

Kaneohe, HI

#18 May 19, 2009
stop anymore immigration from the USA AND ASIA
then we wont need a rail and tax the church than
we wont have to pay high property taxes.
Shareholder

Kaneohe, HI

#19 May 19, 2009
I would support building the system at ground level if it means it'll be cheaper to build it.
Jack

Milwaukee, WI

#20 May 19, 2009
Unless the Hawaii Superferry disaster has finally taught people their lesson, this rail transit project is going to be another monster debacle at grave expense to the taxpayers.

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