Elevated argument - Hawaii News

[How Many Die]

How Many Die wrote:

<quoted text>
Correct. Highways are 300% more dangerous. Moreover, according to today's paper:
"Hawaii is the most dangerous state for pedestrians ages 65 and older, according to a report by the coalition group Transportation for America.
The state also ranks third in the nation for having the largest proportion of pedestrian deaths of all ages in traffic accidents."

I have posted data (and link) YOU submitted. It is YOUR stuff! Your data clearly shows the rate for cars as well, and it IS 300% worse. No backtracking allowed.

[Rail Pandemic]

How Many Die wrote:

<quoted text>
I have posted data (and link) YOU submitted. It is YOUR stuff! Your data clearly shows the rate for cars as well, and it IS 300% worse. No backtracking allowed.

How Many Die wrote:

<quoted text>
Correct. Highways are 300% more dangerous.

"How Many Die", did you even look at the transit-safety link you posted, because in the failed attempt to makes up your own data, the car fatalities data you speak of was not even included in this chart!

WHERE in this data chart link that YOU have posted repeatedly does it show clearly the rate for car passenger fatalities vs. rail? It doesn't, so you have been caught lying again!

IT DOES NOT show all Highway Data in the chart show in this link, it only shows Commuter Rail (CR), Heavy Rail (HR), Light Rail (LR), Vanpool (VP) and Personal transit service (DR).
Nowhere in the data chart link you provided does it show that all "highways are 300% more dangerous than rail".

This link:
http://transit-safety.volpe.dot.gov/Data/sami...

If you open the above link that HMD claims to show that "Highways are 300% more dangerous", IT DOES NOT show the Highway data in this Data Chart Link on transit safety.

What the data chart does show is that Commuter Rail (CR), Heavy Rail (HR), and Light Rail (LR) have all INCREASED passenger fatalities on all rail modes,(CR, HR, LR) from 2006 to 2007.

This data chart shows that rail is dangerous and will cause passenger fatalities if you choose to ride rail. You choose to ignore this fact.

This chart also shows that Motor Bus or Rubber-tired passenger vehicles have had a DECREASE in passenger fatalities from 2006 to 2007. You've also choose to ignore this fact.

Also notice that Vanpool (VP) and Personal transit service operated (DR) in the data chart, has the LOWEST passenger fatalities of all transit modes listed in this data chart!
What this data chart clearly shows is that rail is more dangerous and will cause more passenger fatalities than other transit modes shown in this data chart.

[Rail Pandemic]

"Mass transit isn't what our area needs"

http://www.tampabay.com
In Print: Saturday, November 14, 2009

"I was disappointed to learn that five of seven Hillsborough County commissioners voted to move ahead on a plan to ask voters for a 1-cent sales tax for transit improvements. Spending billions of dollars to build a transit system in the Tampa Bay area would be a colossal waste of money for many reasons.

First, we don't need it. Traffic in Tampa actually flows relatively well, and the previous bottlenecks are being addressed either by double-decker roads (Selmon Crosstown Expressway), or widening (I-275 through downtown, Bruce B. Downs in New Tampa). Commutes in Tampa are typically in the range of 20-40 minutes, which compare very favorably to other metropolitan areas of similar population density.

Second, very few commuters would use the proposed system. Consider the typical rail commute: Commuters drive to a train station, park, get out in the elements (rain, humidity), wait for a train, get in a train with strangers, stop at several locations to pick up and drop off passengers, depart at their appropriate train stop and then walk or get into a taxi to take them to their final destination. Compare that commuter travel to people simply driving to their destination in the comfort of their own vehicle. And what about the convenience of being able to run errands or pick up and drop off the kids on your way to or from work?

Third, the cost is prohibitive, especially in these economic times. The TBARTA folks claim that most major metropolitan areas in the United States have a mass transit system. True — and they all lose money.

The fact is, except in areas of very high population density, the automobile trumps mass transit every time in convenience, and Americans are not going to give up their convenience."

from: Ken Keller, Temple Terrace

[alice]

rail is a nightmare

[How Many Die]

Rail Pandemic wrote:

<quoted text>
<quoted text>
"How Many Die", did you even look at the transit-safety link you posted, because in the failed attempt to makes up your own data, the car fatalities data you speak of was not even included in this chart!
WHERE in this data chart link that YOU have posted repeatedly does it show clearly the rate for car passenger fatalities vs. rail? It doesn't, so you have been caught lying again!

I've got the car rate from YOUR post, where YOU said:

"Fatality rates per 100,000,000 miles:

Cars are rated 1.5
Buses are rated .5
Commuter rail is rated less than 1
Light rail is rated less less than 1
Heavy rail is rated .5"

Apparently, you got the transit data from the link that was included in the quote of your post, not mine.

With some fluctuation, however, you can find the car rate YOU gave in many statistical tables. I repeated YOUR statistics. If you have an issue with this, it is an issue you have to resolve with yourself.

If, as you say, I am lying by quoting you, then you are the source of the lie. But in this case, your data are true: cars are 300% more deadly.

[alice]

another mufi fiasco

[Really]

How Many Die wrote:

<quoted text>
I've got the car rate from YOUR post, where YOU said:
"Fatality rates per 100,000,000 miles:
Cars are rated 1.5
Buses are rated .5
Commuter rail is rated less than 1
Light rail is rated less less than 1
Heavy rail is rated .5"
Apparently, you got the transit data from the link that was included in the quote of your post, not mine.
With some fluctuation, however, you can find the car rate YOU gave in many statistical tables. I repeated YOUR statistics. If you have an issue with this, it is an issue you have to resolve with yourself.
If, as you say, I am lying by quoting you, then you are the source of the lie. But in this case, your data are true: cars are 300% more deadly.

This link - http://transit-safety.volpe.dot.gov/Data/sami ... according to "Rail Pandemic", "clearly shows is that rail is more dangerous and will cause more passenger fatalities than other transit modes shown in this data chart"

[alice]

alice wrote:

another mufi fiasco

yup

[Balance]

Really wrote:

<quoted text>
This link - http://transit-safety.volpe.dot.gov/Data/sami ... according to "Rail Pandemic", "clearly shows is that rail is more dangerous and will cause more passenger fatalities than other transit modes shown in this data chart"

You are misreading the data. You need to look at rates for a true comparison.

[Really]

Balance wrote:

<quoted text>
You are misreading the data. You need to look at rates for a true comparison.

Hey, "Balance". Do you know understand English? Are you in the habit of putting words into another person's mouth?

If you read carefully what "Really" wrote in Post No.1974 and If you understand English such as "according to Rail Pandemic', you should have said the following:

"He" (or "Rail Pandemic'")- is misreading the data. He (or Rail Pandemic) needs to look at rates for a true comparison. However, what "rates" are you talking about? The rates HMD wrote which is not supported by a link or the rates in the link divulged by HMD.

But why bother. Fatalities on the highways are as pointless and as ridiculous as fatalities in the hospitals. Fatalities on the highways are irrelevant to the issue being discussed in this forum - Elevated argument or Rail vs. Anti-Rail.

[Relevant]

How Many Die wrote:

<quoted text>
I've got the car rate from YOUR post, where YOU said:
"Fatality rates per 100,000,000 miles:
Cars are rated 1.5
Buses are rated .5
Commuter rail is rated less than 1
Light rail is rated less less than 1
Heavy rail is rated .5"
Apparently, you got the transit data from the link that was included in the quote of your post, not mine.
With some fluctuation, however, you can find the car rate YOU gave in many statistical tables. I repeated YOUR statistics. If you have an issue with this, it is an issue you have to resolve with yourself.
If, as you say, I am lying by quoting you, then you are the source of the lie. But in this case, your data are true: cars are 300% more deadly.

Why is anyone responding to HOW MANY DIE comments when he is irrevelant?

[alice]

alice wrote:

rail is a nightmare

Mufi will be long gone when this entire corrupt project blows up and sinks the city's finances

[Rail Pandemic]

November 15, 2009
"Riding out the recession"
"Spokane Transit Authority puts projects on hold, looks for ways to bolster revenue"

"The worst economic recession in generations has brought a new reality: Cuts in service are likely over the next several years."

“We are in a pickle,” said Richard Rush, a Spokane city councilman and member of the STA board.

"Expect penny-pinching.

Officials are planning for a 2 percent cut in service late next year, followed by more substantial reductions of 7 percent a year in both 2011 and 2012. The service cuts would be accompanied by reductions in spending on new buses and other assets.

Decisions on how to reduce bus service to meet budget goals won’t be made until later."

"Improvements on hold

Meyer said she doesn’t want the transit agency to become paralyzed by the down economy and its current budget woes but wants it to look ahead.

Among its latest efforts, STA is:

-Embarking on a new study of rapid transit through the Spokane Valley with an eye toward possibly using electric buses at a fraction of the cost of light rail.

-Working with the city of Spokane on an analysis of the potential for a streetcar system serving downtown, the University District, hospitals, Browne’s Addition and the Spokane County Courthouse. The cars could run on tires and be powered electrically.

-Creating a “smart bus” system in which riders would get real-time arrival and departure information, even mid-route. Installing cameras on all buses is part of the project, an element that is under negotiation with drivers. The cameras would be a deterrent to potential problems because the video images could be retrieved for evidence.“It’s an element of safety customers haven’t had before,” Meyer said.

-Modifying the downtown STA Plaza to make drop-offs, boardings and transfers more efficient.

To offset those investments, STA is going to postpone vehicle replacements, expansions of park-and-ride lots and improvements of agency facilities. Plaza modifications will take place over several years to conserve cash in 2010.

In addition, STA is curtailing a program in recent years of helping finance local street construction projects"

"Because STA depends so heavily on sales tax collections for its fiscal health, the agency could be facing budget constraints for some time to come.

Sales tax collections through September were down 12 percent and there is little prospect for recovery until nearly 2015."

from: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/nov/15/...

[Too Bad]

Hawaii is run by idiots so it is no surprise they will spend 6 billion for a train when they can't keep the schools open? yes makes total sense for Hawaii.

[alice]

Too Bad wrote:

Hawaii is run by idiots so it is no surprise they will spend 6 billion for a train when they can't keep the schools open? yes makes total sense for Hawaii.

very true...but mufi was paid off by developers to do it at public expense

[How Many Die]

Rail Pandemic wrote:

<quoted text>

Fatality rates per 100,000,000 miles:
Cars are rated 1.5
Buses are rated .5
Commuter rail is rated less than 1
Light rail is rated less less than 1
Heavy rail is rated .5

Rail Pandemic, you should know that someone using your name is disputing the facts that you posted, clearly after conducting careful research. But it is important to look at the rates you posted carefully, as they reveal that cars are 300% more deadly.

[How Many Die]

Really wrote:

<quoted text>
Really? Explain? Really, No matter what kind of statistics you bring forth you do not scare car owners one bit with your "Highways are dangerous".
Another website (http://www.aiam.org/public/aiam/safety/crash_... ) put up the figure of 6.024 million in the number of car crashes in 2007. Of those number 37,248 resulted in fatalities.

Excellent information Really. You are saying that, in 2007, 37,248 people died on the highways of America. The same year, there were 6.024 million crashes. That is about 162 crashes for every fatality. A lot of minor, major and incapacitating injuries, as well as property damage. And all this in just one year. Strike the alarm!

[Really]

State aims to unclog H-1 freeway
2 lanes will be added: 1 at Middle Street and 1 from Radford Drive to H-2's merge

STORY SUMMARY | READ THE FULL STORY
Gov. Linda Lingle and some lawmakers expressed support for plans unveiled yesterday by the Department of Transportation to reduce peak-hour traffic congestion for commuters to or from West Oahu.

With developments that include the University of Hawaii at West Oahu and other planned projects in Leeward Oahu, Lingle said, "It can't happen at a moment too soon."

One of the projects will add a lane for eastbound commuters on the H-1 freeway from Ola Lane to Vineyard Boulevard to help reduce congestion at the Middle Street merge.

The other project entails adding a lane for westbound commuters in the afternoon by contra-flowing an eastbound freeway lane from Radford Drive to the Waiawa Interchange.

[Really]

Commuters going east by the Middle Street merge - labeled the 41st-worst bottleneck in the country last year by traffic analyst INRIX - would save precious minutes of driving time under one of two proposals showcased yesterday.

The state unveiled two initiatives yesterday at Gov. Linda Lingle’s office aimed at reducing traffic congestion on the H-1 freeway during prime travel times. Here, the H-1 freeway’s eastbound lanes coming out of the Middle Street Tunnel were congested yesterday.

The projects are expected to relieve traffic conjestion on Oahu.

Motorists headed west on the H-1 freeway in the afternoon rush hour would also benefit.
State Transportation Director Brennon Morioka presented the plans, estimated to shave commuters' travel time by 10 to 20 minutes in the morning and afternoon crushes.
"This is intended to improve the quality of life," said Morioka.
The overall costs are estimated at $155 million. Eighty percent of each project will be federally funded, while 20 percent of each project will be state funded.
One of the projects involves an afternoon contra-flow lane - a lane to be added on the H-1 freeway for westbound commuters during peak traffic. With the success of the ZipperLane for eastbound commuters in the morning, transportation officials wanted to use the same concept to ease the afternoon commute in the opposite direction.
Currently, there are four general-purpose lanes and a car pool lane. The plan calls for adding a general-purpose lane on the H-1 freeway from Radford Drive to the Waiawa Interchange by using an eastbound lane. Morioka said the project is expected to save motorists five to 10 minutes.
Movable concrete barriers will remain fixed for the extra general-purpose lane and the car pool lane, which means the ZipMobile will no longer be needed to retract and deploy the barriers. Multiple emergency gates will be installed along the contra-flow lanes.
Dean Hazama, chairman of the Mililani Mauka/Launani Valley Neighborhood Board, said motorists will benefit from the emergency gates that are expected to help reduce congestion should a major accident occur.
The project will be done in two phases. Construction of the so-called PM Contraflow lane will occur in the first phase. The second phase will include widening the existing H-1 freeway from the Waiawa Interchange to the Waikele offramp.
The second proposal involves adding a lane to the H-1 freeway for eastbound commuters to alleviate bottlenecking at the Middle Street merge during peak morning traffic. The extra lane will stretch from the Middle Street merge or Ola Lane to Vineyard Boulevard. The project is expected to reduce trips by up to 20 minutes during the morning, afternoon and weekend peak traffic times.
"This is going to be one of the most impactful and meaningful projects that the Department of Transportation has done in a very, very long time," said Morioka, describing the merge as one of the worst bottlenecks in the state, if not one of the worst in the country.
He noted that the Middle Street merge bottleneck existed in the early 1970s and has continued to worsen.
"Residents have waited far too long for congestion relief on their highways," he said. "We simply cannot wait to start, as it is unacceptable to allow this condition of congestion to worsen over the years."

[Balance]

Really wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey, "Balance". Do you know understand English? Are you in the habit of putting words into another person's mouth?
If you read carefully what "Really" wrote in Post No.1974 and If you understand English such as "according to Rail Pandemic', you should have said the following:
"He" (or "Rail Pandemic'")- is misreading the data. He (or Rail Pandemic) needs to look at rates for a true comparison. However, what "rates" are you talking about? The rates HMD wrote which is not supported by a link or the rates in the link divulged by HMD.
But why bother. Fatalities on the highways are as pointless and as ridiculous as fatalities in the hospitals. Fatalities on the highways are irrelevant to the issue being discussed in this forum - Elevated argument or Rail vs. Anti-Rail.

What do you mean when you post the garbled sentence "do you know understand English"? You have two verbs without a conjunction.

At any rate, I do understand the language perfectly well and I meant exactly what I said, that YOU are misreading the statistics. You quoted Rail Pandemic to obviously make a point with which you agree. YOU were wrong in your agreement with RP. The fact that Rail Pandemic is also wrong does not make you right.

Also Rail Pandemic's link does not give all the rates quoted in his/her post, i.e.:

"Fatality rates per 100,000,000 miles:
Cars are rated 1.5
Buses are rated .5
Commuter rail is rated less than 1
Light rail is rated less less than 1
Heavy rail is rated .5"

This does not negate the fact that, according to Rail Pandemic's post, cars are 300% more deadly. Relative fatality rates are extremely relevant to the choice of mode of travel. Otherwise, Rail Pandemic would not spend the time and effort to present accurate statistics.

I suggest you take a remedial English class.