Over policed in St. Lawrence County

Over policed in St. Lawrence County

There are 183 comments on the North Country Now story from May 2, 2013, titled Over policed in St. Lawrence County. In it, North Country Now reports that:

Do you believe that your friends, neighbors and surrounding community members are all criminals that should be constantly scrutinized by the police? If not, why is it acceptable for there to be a SLC Sheriff between Potsdam and Canton, a US Border Patrol agent in the village of Canton, and three NYS Troopers between the villages of Canton and ... (more)

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your a dick

Fayetteville, NY

#44 May 8, 2013
everyone knew what they ment, go kill yourself
another dude

Gouverneur, NY

#45 May 8, 2013
Stopping cars and taking a few pills or a bag of weed from someone is not going to stop the drug problems. There are so many people in this area that grow weed and sell it to make money on the side it is ridiculous. They own businesses, work for you and talk to you around town. Then there are the people selling their pills. Do some talking to some locals and get these people stopped and you start a whole trail of this local stuff happening. Other than that - it comes thru from the reservation to other cities and Rt. 11 is a main road to drug dealers success. People talk and I hear it all the time. I never hear these people getting in trouble. This county is so poor that they need these people paying taxes to suppor the police force and all the other expenses our welfare inhabited area has to offer.
Anonymous

Ithaca, NY

#46 May 8, 2013
Better look again wrote:
The reason we are over policed is becuase the welfare trash seem to gravitate to SLC. But if you look at the numbers, crime is going up but police numbers are going down. The sheriff's are down two positions and a few out on extended leave. The SP just graduated on class in the last four years and although they have mroe coming out, four years worth of retirements are hard to recover. the local PDs are the same with budget issues. I am a teacher and I know we have similar problems but lets look at the reason for the increased police presence. Its not the numbers it the fact that they are more proactive trying to eradicate the drug problems and welfare crime that is taking over this county.
TEACHER?!
Obviously not an ENGLISH TEACHER!
attorney

New York, NY

#47 May 8, 2013
GouvGuy wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO
Lawyer, huh?
Didnt they teach about PROBABLE CAUSE, or just PROBABLY CAUSE?
MUST be a GOuverneur lawyer!
Ever heard of a typo mr perfect! Jackass
Curious

New York, NY

#48 May 8, 2013
retired CO wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe rather than be all up in arms about jobs of people putting their lives at risk protecting you, you would more upset with the fact that the majority of your "taxes" are spent supporting generations of welfare/ssi/disb, scammers. Just a thought
Here's what I want to know: What or who exactly are the roadblocks I'm referring to, and the LEOs there "risking their lives" to man them, protecting me from? Al Qaeda? Please. Although that WAS the original stated intent. But have the roadblocks around here produced any "hits"? No to my knowledge, and yet they're still setting them up. Why, then? Who's the REAL target? The Mohawks with cigarettes or weed? Drunk drivers? Registration and inspection violations? All of the above?

This is a perfect example of "mission creep". These roadblocks often amounts to little more than overt harassment of law-abiding citizens going about their daily business. I'm also really tired of the whole "well if you've got nothing to hide..." argument, too. If that's the case, then I guess all of us with "nothing to hide" shouldn't bother worrying about little things like the 4th Amendment, Habeus Corpus or search warrants, right? I mean, if you're innocent, you have nothing to worry about, right? Give me a break. The people who compiled the Constition and Bill of Rights had just shaken off a system that allowed the Monarch and his proxies to routinely deprive his subjects of anything resembling personal privacy. Sadly, little by little we seem to be heading back to that, and I think that's dangerous.

Anyway, back to your post, "Retired CO". You think that because ONE of those figures is higher than the other, then only the higher figure should be the subject of a discussion? The size of BOTH of those figures bothers me, and I think BOTH should be addressed, along with a myriad of other topics.

If you're really a retired CO, then you're part of the law enforcement (LE) system, and it's understandable then that any criticism of LE by anyone NOT LE is met with a response of "these people are heroes, They risk they're live daily yada yada yada". I hear it all the time, and it's meant to shut people like me up. "How DARE YOU criticize these HEROES! Un-American blah blah blah!" The defensive walls go up immediately and it becomes impossible have a real substantive conversation with people like you. I'm just so sick of it. The the utter arrogance and contempt that many members of LE show for "citizens" is frightening. LE does and gets what it wants just because it's LE, and us "citizens" just have to keep bending over?!? I don't think so. Have they forgotten who pays the bills? Have you?
corn covered poop

Hammond, NY

#49 May 8, 2013
Curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's what I want to know: What or who exactly are the roadblocks I'm referring to, and the LEOs there "risking their lives" to man them, protecting me from? Al Qaeda? Please. Although that WAS the original stated intent. But have the roadblocks around here produced any "hits"? No to my knowledge, and yet they're still setting them up. Why, then? Who's the REAL target? The Mohawks with cigarettes or weed? Drunk drivers? Registration and inspection violations? All of the above?
This is a perfect example of "mission creep". These roadblocks often amounts to little more than overt harassment of law-abiding citizens going about their daily business. I'm also really tired of the whole "well if you've got nothing to hide..." argument, too. If that's the case, then I guess all of us with "nothing to hide" shouldn't bother worrying about little things like the 4th Amendment, Habeus Corpus or search warrants, right? I mean, if you're innocent, you have nothing to worry about, right? Give me a break. The people who compiled the Constition and Bill of Rights had just shaken off a system that allowed the Monarch and his proxies to routinely deprive his subjects of anything resembling personal privacy. Sadly, little by little we seem to be heading back to that, and I think that's dangerous.
Anyway, back to your post, "Retired CO". You think that because ONE of those figures is higher than the other, then only the higher figure should be the subject of a discussion? The size of BOTH of those figures bothers me, and I think BOTH should be addressed, along with a myriad of other topics.
If you're really a retired CO, then you're part of the law enforcement (LE) system, and it's understandable then that any criticism of LE by anyone NOT LE is met with a response of "these people are heroes, They risk they're live daily yada yada yada". I hear it all the time, and it's meant to shut people like me up. "How DARE YOU criticize these HEROES! Un-American blah blah blah!" The defensive walls go up immediately and it becomes impossible have a real substantive conversation with people like you. I'm just so sick of it. The the utter arrogance and contempt that many members of LE show for "citizens" is frightening. LE does and gets what it wants just because it's LE, and us "citizens" just have to keep bending over?!? I don't think so. Have they forgotten who pays the bills? Have you?
So if we want this to stop, turn people in. Lets face it, your friends that are part of a smaller network are supported by the bigger ones. I am guessing the smaller guys who are found in these road blocks are turning on their suppliers etc.

Stop protecting your little circle jerk friends and clean this area up. Start sending names into the police if you are so informed.
Riparian

Ardsley, NY

#50 May 8, 2013
attorney wrote:
<quoted text>there are no "random" searches. The 4th Amendment protects you against this and LEO's have to abide or risk a suit. Probably cause is needed to search your vehicle! However the Border Patrol only requires reasonable suspicion to conduct a stop, still probably cause is required for a search!
On another note there are a lot of LEO's in the St. Lawrence county area, but we are positioned on an international boundary that is also shared with an Indian reservation, increasing the need for a greater presence. In all truthfulness you have no idea what the amount of illegal activity is taking place and destroying the future! I have been in court for many years and the increase in criminal activity is staggering
I agree with your interpretation of the law. However when people you know are driving by and the officer threatens a longer stay on the roadside and a second car with a dog to tear up my car(i dont even let my dogs in my car)
I decieded to let him win that day but its still bullshit.
Also if you think they need probable cause or reasonable suspician thats just a technicality in court. They can fabricate that later if their illegal stop and search yielded anything worth while.
retired CO

New York, NY

#51 May 8, 2013
Curious wrote:
Here's what I want to know: What or who exactly are the roadblocks I'm referring to, and the LEOs there "risking their lives" to man them, protecting me from? Al Qaeda? Please. Although that WAS the original stated intent. But have the roadblocks around here produced any "hits"? No to my knowledge, and yet they're still setting them up. Why, then? Who's the REAL target? The Mohawks with cigarettes or weed? Drunk drivers? Registration and inspection violations? All of the above?

This is a perfect example of "mission creep". These roadblocks often amounts to little more than overt harassment of law-abiding citizens going about their daily business. I'm also really tired of the whole "well if you've got nothing to hide..." argument, too. If that's the case, then I guess all of us with "nothing to hide" shouldn't bother worrying about little things like the 4th Amendment, Habeus Corpus or search warrants, right? I mean, if you're innocent, you have nothing to worry about, right? Give me a break. The people who compiled the Constition and Bill of Rights had just shaken off a system that allowed the Monarch and his proxies to routinely deprive his subjects of anything resembling personal privacy. Sadly, little by little we seem to be heading back to that, and I think that's dangerous.

Anyway, back to your post, "Retired CO". You think that because ONE of those figures is higher than the other, then only the higher figure should be the subject of a discussion? The size of BOTH of those figures bothers me, and I think BOTH should be addressed, along with a myriad of other topics.

If you're really a retired CO, then you're part of the law enforcement (LE) system, and it's understandable then that any criticism of LE by anyone NOT LE is met with a response of "these people are heroes, They risk they're live daily yada yada yada". I hear it all the time, and it's meant to shut people like me up. "How DARE YOU criticize these HEROES! Un-American blah blah blah!" The defensive walls go up immediately and it becomes impossible have a real substantive conversation with people like you. I'm just so sick of it. The the utter arrogance and contempt that many members of LE show for "citizens" is frightening. LE does and gets what it wants just because it's LE, and us "citizens" just have to keep bending over?!? I don't think so. Have they forgotten who pays the bills? Have you?
I have forgotten nothing! I pay taxes and over the years ALOT! Never drawn one cent of your liberal entitlement bull! Go ahead do away with LE moron cause "you pay the bills" and you'll be the first to cry when someone whoops your crying ass or someone beats you up, or a host of other crimes upon you.Oh but then it'll be they didn't respond fast enough why do I pay taxes yada yada yada argument goes both ways. In one breath you cry theres illegals taking jobs and scamming benefits and the next your crying someone's putting up roadblocks trying to control it, get a grip.
Riparian

Ardsley, NY

#52 May 8, 2013
Better look again wrote:
The reason we are over policed is becuase the welfare trash seem to gravitate to SLC. But if you look at the numbers, crime is going up but police numbers are going down. The sheriff's are down two positions and a few out on extended leave. The SP just graduated on class in the last four years and although they have mroe coming out, four years worth of retirements are hard to recover. the local PDs are the same with budget issues. I am a teacher and I know we have similar problems but lets look at the reason for the increased police presence. Its not the numbers it the fact that they are more proactive trying to eradicate the drug problems and welfare crime that is taking over this county.
Borderpatrol roadblocks dont stop welfare fraud. Neither does a bunch of state police swarming all over town.Those are assinine notions.
Our largest drug problems stem from prescription pills. Borderpartol roadblocks and random stops dont stop the dude in town walking around selling pills collecting them from the old people he buys them from because social security wont pay the rent and buy food.
Have you ever met a real drug addict?
They dont drive, own a car, or have any way to go anywhere. Its all an excuse to mess with people they have no right to.
attorney

New York, NY

#53 May 8, 2013
Riparian wrote:
<quoted text>I agree with your interpretation of the law. However when people you know are driving by and the officer threatens a longer stay on the roadside and a second car with a dog to tear up my car(i dont even let my dogs in my car)
I decieded to let him win that day but its still bullshit.
Also if you think they need probable cause or reasonable suspician thats just a technicality in court. They can fabricate that later if their illegal stop and search yielded anything worth while.
Agree on your example of the longer stay scenario, however probable cause, or consent are the law. I'm seeing an increased numbers of dismissed cases for bad stops and unlawful search and seizure. With an increased LE presence in a given area actually magnifies their actions and is creating case law that is upholding the 4th amendment. making false statements by an officer that is proved by a defense attorney will surely result in his loss of employment and potential jail.
Curious

New York, NY

#54 May 8, 2013
retired CO wrote:
<quoted text>
I have forgotten nothing! I pay taxes and over the years ALOT! Never drawn one cent of your liberal entitlement bull! Go ahead do away with LE moron cause "you pay the bills" and you'll be the first to cry when someone whoops your crying ass or someone beats you up, or a host of other crimes upon you.Oh but then it'll be they didn't respond fast enough why do I pay taxes yada yada yada argument goes both ways. In one breath you cry theres illegals taking jobs and scamming benefits and the next your crying someone's putting up roadblocks trying to control it, get a grip.
What don't you get? I'll be very concise so you don't have to strain yourself.

1) The roadblocks, which have become a way of life up here, are completely unnecessary and a waste of taxpayers dollars;

2) The attitudes of some of the LEOs encountered at those roadblocks is unacceptable and irritating at the very least, and often borders on straight-up actionable harassment;

3) I never mentioned "illegals taking jobs" or welfare "scammers". That was someone else; and

4) You help prove my point about some members of the LE community by your defensiveness. Statements like "you'll be the first to cry when someone whoops your crying ass or someone beats you up, or a host of other crimes upon you.Oh but then it'll be they didn't respond fast enough", etc. are just utter nonsense. But if it makes you feel better about yourself, whatever.

You and your self-important attitude are part of the problem. Get over yourself. You are your partners work for the rest of us hard working, tax paying "civilians", and we're getting sick and tired of being treated like crap in their own backyards. Maybe you should adjust yourself to that reality.
attorney

New York, NY

#55 May 8, 2013
Curious wrote:
<quoted text>What don't you get? I'll be very concise so you don't have to strain yourself.

1) The roadblocks, which have become a way of life up here, are completely unnecessary and a waste of taxpayers dollars;

2) The attitudes of some of the LEOs encountered at those roadblocks is unacceptable and irritating at the very least, and often borders on straight-up actionable harassment;

3) I never mentioned "illegals taking jobs" or welfare "scammers". That was someone else; and

4) You help prove my point about some members of the LE community by your defensiveness. Statements like "you'll be the first to cry when someone whoops your crying ass or someone beats you up, or a host of other crimes upon you.Oh but then it'll be they didn't respond fast enough", etc. are just utter nonsense. But if it makes you feel better about yourself, whatever.

You and your self-important attitude are part of the problem. Get over yourself. You are your partners work for the rest of us hard working, tax paying "civilians", and we're getting sick and tired of being treated like crap in their own backyards. Maybe you should adjust yourself to that reality.
I think you should lose your attitude and maybe you wouldn't experience the attitudes at roadblocks you speak of. I have never worked a roadblock in my life as I was a CO so attacking my attitude at roadblocks is completely incorrect. However I have passed through many roadblocks and very rarely have I encountered bad attitudes and def not harassment. There are a few out there as with any job there are ass holes in every group but by lumping them all together is stupid!
and yes

New York, NY

#56 May 8, 2013
I'm both so I have seen it from all angles
real attorney

New York, NY

#57 May 8, 2013
attorney wrote:
<quoted text>I think you should lose your attitude and maybe you wouldn't experience the attitudes at roadblocks you speak of. I have never worked a roadblock in my life as I was a CO so attacking my attitude at roadblocks is completely incorrect. However I have passed through many roadblocks and very rarely have I encountered bad attitudes and def not harassment. There are a few out there as with any job there are ass holes in every group but by lumping them all together is stupid!
Retired CO I would appreciate you not misrepresenting yourself by using my tag in these posts. You're obviously not an attorney as easily spelled out in your writings above.
Curious

New York, NY

#58 May 8, 2013
Are you really an attorney?!? Maybe you should bone up on your reading comprehension skills, counselor. Do they offer CLE points for that?

Who said anything about you working a roadblock?

Who said ALL LEOs were the problem? A substantial portion? Yes indeed. All? No way.

My attitude has NEVER been an issue when dealing with LE in any capacity.

One thing I do agree with you about - there certainly ARE a$$holes in every bunch, no doubt. It just seems to me that some supervisor somewhere is rounding them all up for roadblock duty.
said

Ithaca, NY

#59 May 8, 2013
Curious wrote:
Here's what I want to know: What or who exactly are the roadblocks I'm referring to, and the LEOs there "risking their lives" to man them, protecting me from? Al Qaeda? Please. Although that WAS the original stated intent. But have the roadblocks around here produced any "hits"? No to my knowledge, and yet they're still setting them up. Why, then? Who's the REAL target? The Mohawks with cigarettes or weed? Drunk drivers? Registration and inspection violations? All of the above?

This is a perfect example of "mission creep". These roadblocks often amounts to little more than overt harassment of law-abiding citizens going about their daily business. I'm also really tired of the whole "well if you've got nothing to hide..." argument, too. If that's the case, then I guess all of us with "nothing to hide" shouldn't bother worrying about little things like the 4th Amendment, Habeus Corpus or search warrants, right? I mean, if you're innocent, you have nothing to worry about, right? Give me a break. The people who compiled the Constition and Bill of Rights had just shaken off a system that allowed the Monarch and his proxies to routinely deprive his subjects of anything resembling personal privacy. Sadly, little by little we seem to be heading back to that, and I think that's dangerous.

Anyway, back to your post, "Retired CO". You think that because ONE of those figures is higher than the other, then only the higher figure should be the subject of a discussion? The size of BOTH of those figures bothers me, and I think BOTH should be addressed, along with a myriad of other topics.

If you're really a retired CO, then you're part of the law enforcement (LE) system, and it's understandable then that any criticism of LE by anyone NOT LE is met with a response of "these people are heroes, They risk they're live daily yada yada yada". I hear it all the time, and it's meant to shut people like me up. "How DARE YOU criticize these HEROES! Un-American blah blah blah!" The defensive walls go up immediately and it becomes impossible have a real substantive conversation with people like you. I'm just so sick of it. The the utter arrogance and contempt that many members of LE show for "citizens" is frightening. LE does and gets what it wants just because it's LE, and us "citizens" just have to keep bending over?!? I don't think so. Have they forgotten who pays the bills? Have you?
Key words in your first paragraph "not to my knowledge"! And please explain to everyone how a CO enforces the law???
PoliceNik

Utica, NY

#60 May 8, 2013
yup wrote:
Actually, police numbers in st. Lawrence are low, especially state police. Do the research. 2nd... you are complaining about too many police officers? Okay.. so when you truly NEED a police officer and it takes them 20 mins to long, you will bitch that it too long and there should be more. Its a never ending battle with people. Ppl hate police but love the police when they need them. People complain about being pulled over and given tickets... well don't break the law and you wont be pulled over or given a ticket. Border patrol are under federal standards, which is different that state and county probable cause. I've never seen a more stupid article/post and the ridiculous comments ppl have made.
Ok YUP, since you seem to be the self-appointed expert...How many NYS Police according to YOUR research are there in St. Lawrence Cty, and Franklin Cty.? You sound like an expert on the subject...enlighten your audience
roger spencer

Ardsley, NY

#61 May 9, 2013
PoliceNik wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok YUP, since you seem to be the self-appointed expert...How many NYS Police according to YOUR research are there in St. Lawrence Cty, and Franklin Cty.? You sound like an expert on the subject...enlighten your audience
to many
Curious

New York, NY

#62 May 9, 2013
said wrote:
<quoted text>
Key words in your first paragraph "not to my knowledge"! And please explain to everyone how a CO enforces the law???
Yes, not to my knowledge. Not around here, at least. Drugs? Yes. Drunks? Yes. Illegals? A handful. Bootlegging (smokes)? Yes. Vehicle infractions? Yes. Muslim fundamentalist terrorists bent on destruction, ie Al Qaeda (the rationale used to begin the roadblocks)? Not so much.

I never said that COs "enforce the law". They have absolutely no authority outside the walls, BUT... COs are in fact represented by LE unions. They share common interests. COs are generally considered LEOs.
another CO

Ardsley, NY

#64 May 9, 2013
Curious wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, not to my knowledge. Not around here, at least. Drugs? Yes. Drunks? Yes. Illegals? A handful. Bootlegging (smokes)? Yes. Vehicle infractions? Yes. Muslim fundamentalist terrorists bent on destruction, ie Al Qaeda (the rationale used to begin the roadblocks)? Not so much.

I never said that COs "enforce the law". They have absolutely no authority outside the walls, BUT... COs are in fact represented by LE unions. They share common interests. COs are generally considered LEOs.
We are represented by LE unions???

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