200 Women, Children Removed From Polygamist Camp

[Tex]

soulflower wrote:

<quoted text>
You are right, but nobody cares b/c they are supposedly "Christian" (which they ARE NOT) and because their is a view in most people's minds, especially men in this country, that acutally feels the taking of young girls as wives is justified.
Honestly speaking, if you could legalize sex between men and girls 12 and older, you would get more support for it than anyone cares to admit.
Most men are touched by that sickness and if they could get their hands on a young woman legally for sex and/or love, they would do it in a heartbeat. Sad, but very true.

Sad but true. I had someone male interested in me when I was 13 and he was 10 years older. Two years later he tried again. Eventually, he tried his luck with a cousin of mine who is 6 years younger than me. We all know now that he likes to prey on young unsuspecting girls. Even more amazing, he tried to get in touch with me a few years ago to see if I'd be interested in him.

His take was as long as he didn't force anything, he wasn't doing anything wrong. When I reminded him I was 13 when he first started trying to get me to do things, he had a certain lapse of memory, amnesia.

I was flattered by his attention sometimes, but I never thought of marrying him at all. So this idea that the young girls pursue the old men is pretty ludicrous. Additionally, the women who have left have written and said this isn't true.

[James Winter]

Leslie Shaffer Muncy wrote:

I just read Dorothy Allred Solomons book Daughter of the saint Growing up in Polygamy. It was excellent eye opener on what really goes on. I do not keep my books. I bought this one straight from amazon.com and read it once. My seller name is Leslie Morgan if anyone is interested in it.

you want to REALLY get into it, look up a religion(TLC) in Manti, UT (Harmston, if I remember right), look up Ervil Lebaron and his Colonia Lebaron in Mexico, ULDS in Layton, yeah these people are real prizes...the FLDS is just the icing on the nastiest cake ever baked..

the centennial park polygamist group is pretty much mainstream mormonism in comparison with these other fruit religions err cults..

[joy]

I can not believe how many weak people there are in America. They worship a man instead of God !!!!
Free the women and children. They need to have a life, and not be slaves.

[Nicki]

At least they got a mini-vacation and a taste of what life is like off the ranch. Then some moved off the ranch. Maybe there is hope.

[Tex_Top_Chef]

larry wrote:

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Try looking into the truth about what you say. The only thing you got right were the names Joseph Smith and Mormoni. So lets make come corrections. Joseph Smith did recieve GOLD plates from Moroni. These plates were shown to eleven others and their testamonies have been published in every edition of the Book of Mormon. There are also accounts of others who saw the plates, there accounts however are not published with the Book of Mormon. The Plates were in the Hill Cummorah not on his land. While the LAW of the U.S. had the age of marriage at 10 the youngest wife of Joseph Smith was infact 14 and all indications are that those married at this age were NOT consumated at that age. If you are going to tell the story of our founding at least get your basic fact right.

Well, couldn't find the thread on the gold plates, but here's what Larry says anyway. Enjoy!

[James Winter]

joy wrote:

I can not believe how many weak people there are in America. They worship a man instead of God !!!!
Free the women and children. They need to have a life, and not be slaves.

it isn't so much that they WORSHIP a man...you have to understand how it works...

Thomas S. Monson is NOT someone I WORSHIP...to me, he is a Prophet like Moses or Noah or Isaiah.

I don't worship Mormon, Moroni, Joseph Smith or ANY OTHER mortal man..

HOWEVER, we believe that these men LIKE Moses, Noah etc...also receive revelation from God. We are not following the Prophet so much as we're following GOD through HIS prophets in the same way God did it in the time of Noah, Isaiah or Moses.

If you don't believe like we do, then fine. But I am not here to criticize YOUR belief system. If you don't agree with it...that is fine, nobody is asking you to, but we DO believe in God! We believe that he has prophets in the same way he did during biblical times.

[joy]

So are you saying you aren't able to talk to God yourself, and know what he tells you?

[James Winter]

joy wrote:

So are you saying you aren't able to talk to God yourself, and know what he tells you?

No, I can pray for myself and I can get answers...but I only hold stewardship for myself and my immediate family.

What if I was called to be a bishop? without the proper authority, I would STILL only have stewardship of myself and my family...but I couldn't preside over a congregation..because I do not have the proper authority to hold stewardship over anyone besides my family.

If I was called to be an area leader of Brazil, I still would only have the ability to receive answers for my family..after all, God hasn't given me authority to do that yet...

It is because of the priesthood which is the authority to represent Christ's will here on earth and preside and officiate as he would if he were here on earth.

imagine if you will, a policeman in uniform....you would be pretty pissed off to find out that cop had no authority..

likewise, I'd be pretty pissed off to know that I have been paying tithing to a church where the leaders do not have the proper authority...after all, where did the money go...not just MY money but everyone else's too! keep in mind that OUR leaders are NOT paid through tithing. We all have our responsibilities in the church but we do so voluntarily...

You can PHYSICALLY see the effect of our tithing..we do not pay rent or mortgages for ANY of our chapels or temples...believe me...the LA, San Diego, Boston, Washington DC and Oakland temples are ALL on VERY expensive plots of land..

the tithing takes care of the gardening of chapels and temples...it takes care of the bills, it takes care of those things and the church is STILL in the green...it isn't about the money, it is about faith to pay tithing.

even missionaries who have a special calling, pay for their missions out of pocket...NOT the Church.

[James Winter]

joy wrote:

So are you saying you aren't able to talk to God yourself, and know what he tells you?

the point is, when a prophet is praying to God, he is not praying for himself alone, he is praying to get revelation for a whole church AND like Moses, has the authority to do so. the difference between Moses and Monson is that Monson's talks are printed in the church magazines and online at lds.org where Moses' writings are in the Bible...either way they are God's will for his people at each chronological period of time. in the time of Moses, there was the law of moses that was extremely strict. Christ fulfilled that law and now we follow different laws, but their importance is more applicable to US than the people in Moses' day.

I am no prophet, I maintain my family, but we love having the guidance that is provided to all families in order to keep ourselves happy and to invite the spirit into our home. We DO use prayer to help our kids learn, but we learn how to be better parents in Church as well from other parents who have more experience.

[joy]

It sounds very difficult for you. It is so easy just to read the Bible and serve a living God for me.
I do not need a middle man to pray for me.

[MrZip]

The church is also interested in various business ventures, like building a huge mall in SLC. I dont neccesarily disagree with that, since Im a huge capitalist and love free enterprise. I just think its awesome that a church could get 10% of the GROSS or NET (they never tell you which to pay, they ask you: "do you want GROSS blessings or NET blessings"), have their sales department (Missionaries) pay their own way to grow their membership so more people can pay 10%.

Honestly, I don't believe that the higher ups in SLC dont sincerely believe they are saving the world and doing their God's work, I find it a very interesting model, and to add in that theyre tax deductible. The early church always struggled with money, and in the 30's and 40's they really emphasised and cleaned up the tithing situation, and ever since its been in the red.

I also think that with the support group the mormon church has, theres really no incentive to change it, especially since the mormon prophets, apostles and council of the seventy, as well as the presiding bishopric and administrative help all make a living from it, all from people who give 10% of their gross or net income from it.

If you go to LDS.org they even have a link where you can donate land and assets to them, and many people do, sincerely believing that they are giving their estates to the Lord. What a gig!

Im not saying its good or bad folks, but its whats happening.

[James Winter]

MrZip wrote:

The church is also interested in various business ventures, like building a huge mall in SLC. I dont neccesarily disagree with that, since Im a huge capitalist and love free enterprise. I just think its awesome that a church could get 10% of the GROSS or NET (they never tell you which to pay, they ask you: "do you want GROSS blessings or NET blessings"), have their sales department (Missionaries) pay their own way to grow their membership so more people can pay 10%.
Honestly, I don't believe that the higher ups in SLC dont sincerely believe they are saving the world and doing their God's work, I find it a very interesting model, and to add in that theyre tax deductible. The early church always struggled with money, and in the 30's and 40's they really emphasised and cleaned up the tithing situation, and ever since its been in the red.
I also think that with the support group the mormon church has, theres really no incentive to change it, especially since the mormon prophets, apostles and council of the seventy, as well as the presiding bishopric and administrative help all make a living from it, all from people who give 10% of their gross or net income from it.
If you go to LDS.org they even have a link where you can donate land and assets to them, and many people do, sincerely believing that they are giving their estates to the Lord. What a gig!
Im not saying its good or bad folks, but its whats happening.

For what it is worth, I know a family that lives here in Northern California who bought one of those homes from the Church. I do think that these properties can help families within the Church and it is NOT just to enrich the Church's wallet.

[James Winter]

joy wrote:

It sounds very difficult for you. It is so easy just to read the Bible and serve a living God for me.
I do not need a middle man to pray for me.

Actually, when I pray, I pray for myself and my family and also do not need a middle man in regards to my daily prayers. In fact all members who are active do the same including the leaders of the Church, but as far as the overall Church, the Church needs to be guided correcly in order to avoid apostasy and errant teachings.

The leaders of the church simply guide the Church by way of God's will through their priesthood which is the authority to act in Christ's name as if HE were here.

[MrZip]

James Winter wrote:

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For what it is worth, I know a family that lives here in Northern California who bought one of those homes from the Church. I do think that these properties can help families within the Church and it is NOT just to enrich the Church's wallet.

I didnt know that, thats good to know.