Israeli troops begin Gaza pullout as ...

Israeli troops begin Gaza pullout as Hamas declares cease-fire

There are 70142 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Jan 18, 2009, titled Israeli troops begin Gaza pullout as Hamas declares cease-fire. In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

Israeli troops began withdrawing from the Gaza Strip on Sunday after Hamas declared a cease-fire, setting the stage for intensified international efforts to arrange a durable truce after a 22-day war against ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago Tribune.

Freedom Terrister

Chicago, IL

#66749 Dec 20, 2012
Freedom Terrister wrote:
If not for IAF taking out 95% of the Fajr-3, Fajr-3 and IIRC even a few Zelzal rockets, Pre-launch....If NOT for 5th Iron Dome battery rushed 3 months ahead of schedule to defend Tel Aviv.... If not for the other Iron Dome taking 450+ of heavier, extended range-Chinese grads projected to be heading for the THE heart of Israeli populaces in other towns.... Israeli casulties would have been in 100's, including wounded. That would have big blow to the morale & economy -- and would have left Israeli governmet NO choice but to under-take a VERY expensive, prolonged land operation in Gaza.... Wow, talk about life-saver, in the billions of dollar range!
So ID, as immature and incomplete as its lay-out still is, already paid for itself just during Amud Anan alone!
(nevermind that its cost were de-frayed by American Foreign Military Aid + addityional Congressional cash outlays...So even before export, Iron Dome is already breaking even, if not running a surplus of sorts, LOL But I digress)
Correction: "If not for IAF taking out 95% of the Fajr-3, FAJR-5 and IIRC even a few Zelzal rockets..."

Fajr-3 is mean, but Fajr-5 and Zelzal that's some bad-ass rocketry -- in the context of a terror group targetting city centers, that is. Then again, I never liked the idea of dismissevely referring to Hezbollah or HAMAS as jihadi gangs; that kind of complacent disregard is what led to 2LW. In fact pound-for-pound they are better armed for urban/guerilla warfare than most regular armies! And unlike other conventional armies, these 'roided-up Islamic DON'T play by the rules, honour, Geneva Conventions or all the other fancy infidel trappings....They've turned the whole "human shield" phenomenon into an art-form -- and far from feeling ashamed of hiding behind their own women & children, they BOAST about it. Sick, sick, sick.

Anywho. Qassams filled with nails, ball-bearings dipped in AIDS patient bodily fluids... is one thing. Few 100's dollars. Some of the extended-range Chinese Grads can them into the 1,000s -- especially now that Sinai bedouin smugglers are feeling the heat from Obama/Clinton/Morsi guarantees and less tunnels-available for the next few months. And considering that because of Iron Dome, you need a lot of them for barrages; plus building new underground launchers, with fairly expensive timing/targetting equipment.... the whole cost equation is beginning to shift. Compared to the cheap Qassam days, anyway....

Then figure in the billion+ dollar costs of rebuilding Gaza, all kinds of infrastructure, terror or otherwise......and the overall cost per-fire shoots up dramatically.
And then there are the Fajr-3, Fajr-5 and Zelzal. Much harder to replenish, MUCH more expensive when you fihure in the "passage & re-assembly" costs.

Especially now that aformentioned tragic head-on car accident in Sudan that prematurely ended the lives of Factor and Storage Depot....

In short.... do NOT believe any jihadi-tard echo-chamber goofballs who tells you how Hamas is going to bankrupt Israel with rocket fire. They literally don't know what they are talking about!

TRD

“The Real Deal”

Since: Apr 09

Central Florida

#66750 Dec 20, 2012
Soy de Palestina wrote:
<quoted text>No worries. We have our towels and water ready at all times.
Attaboy! Keep it simple...I'm sure everything will turn out all right.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#66751 Dec 20, 2012
TRD wrote:
<quoted text>Attaboy! Keep it simple...I'm sure everything will turn out all right.
Like we always say in Palestine, safety comes first.

TRD

“The Real Deal”

Since: Apr 09

Central Florida

#66752 Dec 20, 2012
Soy de Palestina wrote:
<quoted text> Like we always say in Palestine, safety comes first.
None of that rubberized crap lasts very long anyway. Ahmad bin MacGyver to the rescue.
Ize Lost

Naugatuck, CT

#66753 Dec 20, 2012
TRD wrote:
<quoted text>There was an entire day of training dedicated to it in the Navy. Had to go in the gas chamber and take off the mask so we could demonstrate proficiency putting it back on under duress.
When was the last time you had your NBC warfare gear checked?
Us taking off our masks to ingest teargas hardly compares to what these fcukers have at their disposal. And, if used, Ahmad's water and towels won't matter. The reprisal will be in hard shrapnel and a little flame. See ya!
Ize Lost

Naugatuck, CT

#66754 Dec 20, 2012
Soy de Palestina wrote:
<quoted text> Like we always say in Palestine, safety comes first.
Really? They dispense condoms? Eeewwww. The visual of latex meeting redundant skin folds is unimaginable.

TRD

“The Real Deal”

Since: Apr 09

Central Florida

#66755 Dec 20, 2012
Ize Lost wrote:
<quoted text>
Us taking off our masks to ingest teargas hardly compares to what these fcukers have at their disposal. And, if used, Ahmad's water and towels won't matter. The reprisal will be in hard shrapnel and a little flame. See ya!
Shhhhhhh! I didn't want to unnecessarily distress the boy. I didn't have the heart to tell him that the reason the stuff doesn't last too long is because after one use it's disposed of during decontamination. Besides, his wet towels will be helpful when they're trying to locate the victim's bodies.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#66756 Dec 20, 2012
TRD wrote:
<quoted text>Shhhhhhh! I didn't want to unnecessarily distress the boy. I didn't have the heart to tell him that the reason the stuff doesn't last too long is because after one use it's disposed of during decontamination. Besides, his wet towels will be helpful when they're trying to locate the victim's bodies.
We don't need masks when we have the biggest Baby Jesus in the world on our side.
http://www.maannews.net/arb/ViewDetails.aspx...
Freedom Terrister

Chicago, IL

#66757 Dec 20, 2012
TRD wrote:
<quoted text>That's sarcasm, right?
Either way, my blessings are manifold...the love of a good woman, the sight of my children having their own children, enough to eat, a comfortable home, great friends, noble enemies...the dream.
TRD,

Lest you get offended and think that I call you "Rinnisons Man" with tongue firmly planted in cheek --- nevermind, pejoratively...

Let me explain. Granted, when I started to post here during Castlead, I probably already had a spark of an inkling, if not iron-clad certitude that my life was gonna go in a DIFFERENT direction than conventional wisdom or wishes of my family would dictate... And, just so we're clear, I certainly DON'T lack for role model(s) in "real" life.

But I would be remiss if I didn't mention the constructive role that you played in my formative years. For one, you are proving F. Scott Fitzgerald wrong --- there is in fact, 2nd act in American Life.

The "Rinnisons Man" part more specifically refers to the fact that seemingly you have your toe dipped into so many different bodies of water... and somehow manage to pull if off rather gracefully without drowing --- at least judging by the anonymity-based impression/composite that's emerged over the years. Correct me if I am wrong.

(Now, of course you could be some psycho, fraud, or whatever, but whatevet, I just don't think so -- and besides, I do NOT want to live in a world where I can't trust peolple or take them for their word.)

Now I've already made one 180-degrees leap of faith, to mix a few metaphors, once -- I mean, who knew that most of my grow-up friends would be Liberals and Libertarians, that Fine/Performance Arts is where the sausage will get made .... but your Rinnisons Man example, among others, has probably eased the transition.

For instance: it works the other way too -- just because I'm in a dynamic "humanities" mode now, does NOT mean that I can't keep up with some of my old "hard-ass" intersts like sports, politics, military affairs. Maybe even business/finance sometime down the line, reallllly down the line, LOL...

I think "Rinnisons Man/Woman" is something that's increasingly rare in modern world, and it's definately something to strive for (if not quite attain -- or, else, "what's Heaven for?" :)

I hope it made sense. Sorry for a poor Englishing.

PS. Now, before you get too full of yourself, Commander...for the record, LWScienceJunkie also taught me some things by example. Heck, look at Ize -- the guy is much smarter and more rounded than he pretends/gives himself credit for. And I hate to admit it, but NaNa has had a positive effect in way I'd rather not share now, too. Credit where due.

So thanks all.

TRD

“The Real Deal”

Since: Apr 09

Central Florida

#66758 Dec 20, 2012
Soy de Palestina wrote:
<quoted text> We don't need masks when we have the biggest Baby Jesus in the world on our side.
http://www.maannews.net/arb/ViewDetails.aspx...
Allegedly.

That's a monumental baby Jesus all right. Please forgive my snickering at the double irony of:

A. A giant baby.

B. A bunch of Christians and Muslims fixating on a Jew.

And the bonus irony of Arabs believing that Guinness records will somehow legitimize a state. For example "...Look honey, there's the National Kanafeh of Palestine! Those Palestinians sure know their desserts!". What's next, World's largest Hummus bowl?
Ize Lost

Naugatuck, CT

#66759 Dec 20, 2012
Freedom Terrister wrote:
<quoted text>
TRD,
Lest you get offended and think that I call you "Rinnisons Man" with tongue firmly planted in cheek --- nevermind, pejoratively...
Let me explain. Granted, when I started to post here during Castlead, I probably already had a spark of an inkling, if not iron-clad certitude that my life was gonna go in a DIFFERENT direction than conventional wisdom or wishes of my family would dictate... And, just so we're clear, I certainly DON'T lack for role model(s) in "real" life.
But I would be remiss if I didn't mention the constructive role that you played in my formative years. For one, you are proving F. Scott Fitzgerald wrong --- there is in fact, 2nd act in American Life.
The "Rinnisons Man" part more specifically refers to the fact that seemingly you have your toe dipped into so many different bodies of water... and somehow manage to pull if off rather gracefully without drowing --- at least judging by the anonymity-based impression/composite that's emerged over the years. Correct me if I am wrong.
(Now, of course you could be some psycho, fraud, or whatever, but whatevet, I just don't think so -- and besides, I do NOT want to live in a world where I can't trust peolple or take them for their word.)
Now I've already made one 180-degrees leap of faith, to mix a few metaphors, once -- I mean, who knew that most of my grow-up friends would be Liberals and Libertarians, that Fine/Performance Arts is where the sausage will get made .... but your Rinnisons Man example, among others, has probably eased the transition.
For instance: it works the other way too -- just because I'm in a dynamic "humanities" mode now, does NOT mean that I can't keep up with some of my old "hard-ass" intersts like sports, politics, military affairs. Maybe even business/finance sometime down the line, reallllly down the line, LOL...
I think "Rinnisons Man/Woman" is something that's increasingly rare in modern world, and it's definately something to strive for (if not quite attain -- or, else, "what's Heaven for?" :)
I hope it made sense. Sorry for a poor Englishing.
PS. Now, before you get too full of yourself, Commander...for the record, LWScienceJunkie also taught me some things by example. Heck, look at Ize -- the guy is much smarter and more rounded than he pretends/gives himself credit for. And I hate to admit it, but NaNa has had a positive effect in way I'd rather not share now, too. Credit where due.
So thanks all.
He is a classy guy, no doubt. But, money will do that to you. My draw is his combat experience and the education required to get there. Other than that, he suks. ;>)

TRD

“The Real Deal”

Since: Apr 09

Central Florida

#66760 Dec 20, 2012
Freedom Terrister wrote:
<quoted text>
TRD,
Lest you get offended and think that I call you "Rinnisons Man" with tongue firmly planted in cheek --- nevermind, pejoratively...
Let me explain. Granted, when I started to post here during Castlead, I probably already had a spark of an inkling, if not iron-clad certitude that my life was gonna go in a DIFFERENT direction than conventional wisdom or wishes of my family would dictate... And, just so we're clear, I certainly DON'T lack for role model(s) in "real" life.
But I would be remiss if I didn't mention the constructive role that you played in my formative years. For one, you are proving F. Scott Fitzgerald wrong --- there is in fact, 2nd act in American Life.
The "Rinnisons Man" part more specifically refers to the fact that seemingly you have your toe dipped into so many different bodies of water... and somehow manage to pull if off rather gracefully without drowing --- at least judging by the anonymity-based impression/composite that's emerged over the years. Correct me if I am wrong.
(Now, of course you could be some psycho, fraud, or whatever, but whatevet, I just don't think so -- and besides, I do NOT want to live in a world where I can't trust peolple or take them for their word.)
Now I've already made one 180-degrees leap of faith, to mix a few metaphors, once -- I mean, who knew that most of my grow-up friends would be Liberals and Libertarians, that Fine/Performance Arts is where the sausage will get made .... but your Rinnisons Man example, among others, has probably eased the transition.
For instance: it works the other way too -- just because I'm in a dynamic "humanities" mode now, does NOT mean that I can't keep up with some of my old "hard-ass" intersts like sports, politics, military affairs. Maybe even business/finance sometime down the line, reallllly down the line, LOL...
I think "Rinnisons Man/Woman" is something that's increasingly rare in modern world, and it's definately something to strive for (if not quite attain -- or, else, "what's Heaven for?" :)
I hope it made sense. Sorry for a poor Englishing.
PS. Now, before you get too full of yourself, Commander...for the record, LWScienceJunkie also taught me some things by example. Heck, look at Ize -- the guy is much smarter and more rounded than he pretends/gives himself credit for. And I hate to admit it, but NaNa has had a positive effect in way I'd rather not share now, too. Credit where due.
So thanks all.
Before it gets lost...you're welcome. And please accept my thanks for all the time you've spent educating and entertaining us. I know you and Ahmad still lead hectic lives while those of us on the back nine are able to do more relaxing. Trust me, you'll have plenty of time for that later (as long as we make it through the Mayan night intact) but there's never enough time for learning.

Aside from some good-natured ribbing where truth temporarily took a back seat, I've tried to walk it like I talk it. If I have ever stretched the truth in fun, I hope I subsequently made it clear that I was joking. You seem to know where you're going and I admire that in a person. I'm sure that wherever you end up you'll excel.

One thing though, liberal should never be confused with libertarian.

Ever.

TRD

“The Real Deal”

Since: Apr 09

Central Florida

#66761 Dec 20, 2012
And for the record: LW is my favorite science teacher.

TRD

“The Real Deal”

Since: Apr 09

Central Florida

#66762 Dec 20, 2012
Ize Lost wrote:
<quoted text>
He is a classy guy, no doubt. But, money will do that to you. My draw is his combat experience and the education required to get there. Other than that, he suks. ;>)
I wub you too <sniff>.
Freedom Terrister

Chicago, IL

#66763 Dec 20, 2012
Freedom Terrister wrote:
<quoted text>
Correction: "If not for IAF taking out 95% of the Fajr-3, FAJR-5 and IIRC even a few Zelzal rockets..."
Fajr-3 is mean, but Fajr-5 and Zelzal that's some bad-ass rocketry -- in the context of a terror group targetting city centers, that is. Then again, I never liked the idea of dismissevely referring to Hezbollah or HAMAS as jihadi gangs; that kind of complacent disregard is what led to 2LW. In fact pound-for-pound they are better armed for urban/guerilla warfare than most regular armies! And unlike other conventional armies, these 'roided-up Islamic DON'T play by the rules, honour, Geneva Conventions or all the other fancy infidel trappings....They've turned the whole "human shield" phenomenon into an art-form -- and far from feeling ashamed of hiding behind their own women & children, they BOAST about it. Sick, sick, sick.
Anywho. Qassams filled with nails, ball-bearings dipped in AIDS patient bodily fluids... is one thing. Few 100's dollars. Some of the extended-range Chinese Grads price can run into the 1,000s -- especially now that Sinai bedouin smugglers are feeling the heat from Obama/Clinton/Morsi guarantees and less tunnels-available for the next few months. And considering that because of Iron Dome, you need a lot of them for barrages; plus building new underground launchers, with fairly expensive timing/targetting equipment.... the whole cost equation is beginning to shift. Compared to the cheap Qassam days, anyway....
Then figure in the billion+ dollar costs of rebuilding Gaza, all kinds of infrastructure, terror or otherwise......and the overall cost per-fire shoots up dramatically.
And then there are the Fajr-3, Fajr-5 and Zelzal. Much harder to replenish, MUCH more expensive when you fihure in the "passage & re-assembly" costs.
Especially now that aformentioned tragic head-on car accident in Sudan that prematurely ended the lives of Factor and Storage Depot....
Oh yeah and then there's the SURVIVABILITY of the rocket crews/launchers.

It used to be that a few of them had to be trained, and it cost much less for equipment itself & the "talent turn-over" was much less. Same rocket commanders could survive literally for years.
Now, Iron Dome not only takes care of the more dangerous trajectory, but its mini-MMR PINPOINTS in real-time the location of the rocket-crew and/or launcher. So not only are PIJ, Hamas, PRC, PFLP and Co are starting to run short on their best people, the job itself is becoming almost a suicide mission!

First of all, despite their fiery rhetoric & posturing, MOST jihadi leaders are in no hurry to be martyred. Fact. Secondly, even the volunteers who actually might be willing to put their life where their mouth is when it comes to blowing up Israelis in, say, a bus or cafe where a jihadi is assured of if not killing then certainly maiming at least 1 Ebbyl Juice or 2 little Ebbyl Juiceling....... But when it comes to firing rockets that prbably won't even get off the ground or will miss target or intercepted, even a suicidally-leaning Islamofascist might start to ask himself inconvenient question "Is it really worth it? Where's the punch-line, boss?!"

IMO, Amud Anan wasn't so much about shutting Hamas up -- you know, even if Hudna was reached with Hamas, Iran will never allow Islamic Jihad or PRC to remain silent for long, nevermind the smaller al-Qaeda affiliates popping up all over Gaza, they don't take orders from anybody.... I am on the side of those who think it was just a glorified exercise or prelude that addressed longer-range rockets & various Iraninan C4I infrastructure... ahead of somrthing else.

<<cont.>>
Freedom Terrister

Chicago, IL

#66764 Dec 20, 2012
TRD wrote:
One thing though, liberal should never be confused with libertarian.
You've cleary never met some of the Ron Paul "libertarian" poseurs on campuses and hang-outs.

Thanks why I usually put them in quotation marks, so as to distinguish these poseurs from tradition, real Ayn Rand libertarians. For all intents and purposes, they are basically liberal, but much more isolationist when it comes to war & much less honest with themselves.

A cult of L.Ron Paultard's... but no body-therans or Xenu to lighten things up. Ah who am I kidding, I love them all the same, weed-reeking and all :)
Freedom Terrister

Chicago, IL

#66765 Dec 20, 2012
<<cont.>>

In that sense, it was a NICE fake-out by Netanyahu. Even the IDF recruits were actually closer to 30,000 than 70,000, LOL. Hamas realized Bibi was bluffing and that having exhaused most of its target-bank in the first 2-3 days, Bibi was NOT going to go in -- not so close to the elections,way. But it was too late for Hamas by then, Morsi-Hillary-Obama already working hard on cease-fire.

That was a clinic in surgical precision, all-around network-centric UAV coverage... just beautiful. Much like Saddam's "Mother & Jolly Inebriated Uncle With Happy Fingers of All Battles".... the "Gates of Hell" Hamas promised after Ja'abari eliminations, got stuck-closed, apparently. Zero tanks lost by IDF even though they were parked RIGHT THERE for Hamas to shoot with those fancy Kornet, Metis-M, Milan and RPG-29 --- ATGM have a range of, what, 5 miles??? I mean, how hard would it have been for some Hamasnik to hide in an unlit 7th story apartment building, next to those delicious human-shields ---- and then let off a Kornet or 2 in the direction of perfectly stationary Merkava-4 at the border? Easy! But Hamas plain chickened out.

Likwise, zero planes, helicopters or UAV downed despite the usual silly claims & photo-shop fabrications by the AllahAkbar gallery. The best they could do was parade some 5 year old drone and discarded fuel-tank. Lulz! And it wasn't lack of trying or weaponry -- it's common knowledge that Gaza terror-groups had big stocks of Strela and also more advanced Igla-S, that f*cker is deadly. And yet, no cigar!

Spike-NLOS taking out 4 Islamic Jihad hiding in an international media in violation of all laws of combat, by the way... WITHOUT harming a single civilian, was money. Ooomph. Practically no casualties on Israeli side (save for that foolish Kyrian Malachi gawkers, of course). The country continued to function more or less. Message was sent to all relevant, uh, parties.

np: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/...
Freedom Terrister

Chicago, IL

#66766 Dec 20, 2012
TRD wrote:
<quoted text>Before it gets lost...you're welcome. And please accept my thanks for all the time you've spent educating and entertaining us. I know you and Ahmad still lead hectic lives while those of us on the back nine are able to do more relaxing. Trust me, you'll have plenty of time for that later (as long as we make it through the Mayan night intact) but there's never enough time for learning.
Aside from some good-natured ribbing where truth temporarily took a back seat, I've tried to walk it like I talk it. If I have ever stretched the truth in fun, I hope I subsequently made it clear that I was joking. You seem to know where you're going and I admire that in a person. I'm sure that wherever you end up you'll excel.
One thing though, liberal should never be confused with libertarian.
Ever.
Specifically, I just wanted to make sure there is no hard-feelings vis-a-vis "Rinnisons Man" title. It's meant as a COMPLIMENT fo reasons stated in previous post.

As for knowing where I am going, not so fast, that can change in a hurry, too; I hope not but in life, you never know. 5 years ago, I would have laughted you out of the gym or any other room -- if you'd told me the fagggy stuff I'd be doing now. But I do confess to loving it so, lawday!

In fact, I've learned to not just accept, but RELISH the fundamental UNPREDICTABILITY of life/God/nature. And in my area of study, it can get a little bit like Alzheimer's --- "everyday you go different places & meet new people"....LOL!

And playa, don't think I have entirely forgotten how to multi-task and WASTE time on Topix, either. No biggie, you've got a few more days to put up with my sh!t. You sure you are up to it, Commander?

TRD

“The Real Deal”

Since: Apr 09

Central Florida

#66767 Dec 20, 2012
Freedom Terrister wrote:
<quoted text>
Specifically, I just wanted to make sure there is no hard-feelings vis-a-vis "Rinnisons Man" title. It's meant as a COMPLIMENT fo reasons stated in previous post.
As for knowing where I am going, not so fast, that can change in a hurry, too; I hope not but in life, you never know. 5 years ago, I would have laughted you out of the gym or any other room -- if you'd told me the fagggy stuff I'd be doing now. But I do confess to loving it so, lawday!
In fact, I've learned to not just accept, but RELISH the fundamental UNPREDICTABILITY of life/God/nature. And in my area of study, it can get a little bit like Alzheimer's --- "everyday you go different places & meet new people"....LOL!
And playa, don't think I have entirely forgotten how to multi-task and WASTE time on Topix, either. No biggie, you've got a few more days to put up with my sh!t. You sure you are up to it, Commander?
I bet you can't believe how much I've learned in four short years.

Compliment accepted, thanks.

Bring it on;>)
Freedom Terrister

Chicago, IL

#66768 Dec 20, 2012
TRD wrote:
<quoted text>I bet you can't believe how much I've learned in four short years.
Compliment accepted, thanks.
Bring it on;>)
Wouldn't surprise me. They say 60 is the new 40.

That's why this silly little thread survives. Not even with regulars missing for months-to-years at a time... it does provide the CONTEXT & CONTUNITY. Played out against THE most volatile, dangerous and thus EXCITING region of the world, the Holy Land, no less!

(Incientally, Facebook can never replace the "old-school" internet, while there is a downside to the whole "anonymity" thing.... on the other hand, because people are too self-conscious and self-censoring on FB (not to mention, self-obsessed!). It's just not the same.

Look at this thread. Its TOPICALITY & urgency hasn't decreased one-iota; if anything the tension, drama & stakes have GONE UP dramatically since 2009!

Proof in the pudding: we all changed here: some more than others; but also all stayed the same in several meaninful ways.

If you're gonna waste some guilty-pleasure time, this thread is as good a place as any.

And really, I don't get all the whiners about "why can't this thread die already!". What purpose does a statement like that make? Or is it just to get attention? If people don't like it, they can leave for a year+ like myself, or permanently like Gray's sanity.

Afterall, here in Jewmerica, it's all about freedom, baby!

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