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141 - 160 of 217 Comments Last updated Jan 25, 2013
pde

Gilberts, IL

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#143
Jan 23, 2013
 
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
For the record, if you go back and read -- my meaning is that if someone feels that a person is not manly b/c he connects with his daughter by reading books she likes and sharing his books with her -- that to me is an insecure person and speaks volumes about that person who believes such a thing.
And if it wasn't clear, well here's an explanation that must have been needed for others to comprehend what I was saying. Not saying it was necessarily the reader, could be the writer -- but whatever.
I did find you went a bit strongly off into the whole secure-man-thing ... but we'd also gotten away from what was the original point here. I do think that it's particularly admirable that the man in the original letter did keep his promise when his daughter was presenting him with books that aren't quite in his taste.

But the other thing to look at is that the list of authors HE apparently presented to her aren't actually that far different. He does read those type of novels. What she had him read might not have been within his chosen sphere, but was definitely well within his reading comfort zone (if he was reading the authors on his list by choice). So, in reality, the agreement he made hasn't actually been all that challenging. And really, the whole letter is kind of stupid. If someone is reading what was on list A by choice, they are most likely familiar with the authors on list B, and vice versa.

If Sub or edog had said they were willing to read say, Fitzgerald but totally unwilling to read the named female authors, that's an issue of insecurity or bull-headedness. The guys like that who actually were studying English (my undergrad is English, my masters is in engineering) are just flat-out aholes. You honor Dickens but won't touch Austen or Bronte with a ten-foot pole? Ahole.
pde

Gilberts, IL

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#144
Jan 23, 2013
 
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
In actuality, I never have once. I challenge you to find an example.
Rather than simply saying "you just don't understand what I was saying," why don't you actually defend your claims? Or is that too easy?
"When my daughter was about 12 years old, we made a deal that either of us would read a book that the other thought was outstanding.

Fast forward 18 years. We have read and had lively discussions on 50-plus great books together! Other readers might want to try this."

Today's letter doesn't stand as an example?
pde

Gilberts, IL

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#145
Jan 23, 2013
 
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Girly books, then. What's your point?
<quoted text>
If you're letting your 12 year old read 50 Shades of Gray, you've failed as a parent.
And that's why I offered Heinlein, Anthony, and Azimov as examples of adult literature?

Do you even know who they are?

(For the record, Azimov is misspelled because the name appears to be setting off the smut filter. Which since he was anti-smut, is hilarious.)

Since: Jan 10

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#146
Jan 23, 2013
 
Watched csi at nicks tonight. Elizabeth shue came on.

Nick: she's showing her age.
Me (tersely): she's MY age so watch it.
Nick (sincerely): she looks older than you!!

( me thinking, good job nick.)

Since: Jan 10

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#147
Jan 23, 2013
 
Oops meant that in the main place not a daily column.

“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

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#148
Jan 23, 2013
 
pde wrote:
<quoted text>
I did find you went a bit strongly off into the whole secure-man-thing ... but we'd also gotten away from what was the original point here. I do think that it's particularly admirable that the man in the original letter did keep his promise when his daughter was presenting him with books that aren't quite in his taste.
But the other thing to look at is that the list of authors HE apparently presented to her aren't actually that far different. He does read those type of novels. What she had him read might not have been within his chosen sphere, but was definitely well within his reading comfort zone (if he was reading the authors on his list by choice). So, in reality, the agreement he made hasn't actually been all that challenging. And really, the whole letter is kind of stupid. If someone is reading what was on list A by choice, they are most likely familiar with the authors on list B, and vice versa.
If Sub or edog had said they were willing to read say, Fitzgerald but totally unwilling to read the named female authors, that's an issue of insecurity or bull-headedness. The guys like that who actually were studying English (my undergrad is English, my masters is in engineering) are just flat-out aholes. You honor Dickens but won't touch Austen or Bronte with a ten-foot pole? Ahole.
Are you in Human Interface/Factors?
Okay-
I HATE Faulkner. I was forced to read him in HS and I hated him then. I tried again when I was older and I still hated him.Maybe if he didn't write in his version of Mississippi Ebonics...The best thing about Sound and Fury is the title and it goes downhill after that.

I have never been able to make it through Grape of Wrath or Moby Dick but I really like Hemingway. I have taught some technical writing courses and try to use Hemingway as an example of straight forward unadorned prose.

It took me until I was in my 50's to get to Jane Austen and then I couldn't put it down.

I have taken an e-reader from the library- I will always be a paper person.

Night all

“Licensed to Ill”

Since: Aug 08

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#149
Jan 23, 2013
 
Toj wrote:
I find there are certain guys on here (Sub and edog for example) whose reading comprehension is sorely lacking.

When they are bored, they obviously twist what the conversation is about and then say the other person is twisting the conversation.

Then Sub gets all Sub-length in his posts and edog thinks he's brilliant b/c he uses a lot of words.

Upset, Sublikme? No. I am laughing at you. Not with you. At you.
You criticizing anyone's ... and I mean anyone's ... reading comprehension is like Corky from "life goes on" being critical of someone and calling them mentally challenged.

Sublikme? Is that supposed to be a juvenile insult or was that a Freudian slip?
pde

Gilberts, IL

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#150
Jan 23, 2013
 
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you in Human Interface/Factors?
Okay-
I HATE Faulkner. I was forced to read him in HS and I hated him then. I tried again when I was older and I still hated him.Maybe if he didn't write in his version of Mississippi Ebonics...The best thing about Sound and Fury is the title and it goes downhill after that.
I have never been able to make it through Grape of Wrath or Moby Dick but I really like Hemingway. I have taught some technical writing courses and try to use Hemingway as an example of straight forward unadorned prose.
It took me until I was in my 50's to get to Jane Austen and then I couldn't put it down.
I have taken an e-reader from the library- I will always be a paper person.
Night all
At this moment in time, my area of focus is human-computer interaction/UI development, but that is not actually what I studied for my master's degree ;) I work in human-computer interaction at a civil engineering firm (and was hired because I have background in the civil engineering side as well), and I also have experience in informational management/database systems. You could call me a somewhat intelligent and absolutely bizarre flake. My husband, the more traditional software engineer, says he doesn't even try to understand how I think. Or why I decide to study what I decide to study at the times I decide to study it.

As a writer, I find Hemingway brilliant. As a reader, I find Hemingway boring.

I just got a Kindle paperwhite, and I both love it and hate it. My experiment with reading on the paperwhite was Pride & Prejudice.

“Licensed to Ill”

Since: Aug 08

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#151
Jan 23, 2013
 
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>Whose the us? Go back through the posts. We were talking about a man who promised his daughter he would read the books she felt were fabulous and she would read the books he liked as well. That is sharing. He wasn't afraid he suddenly wouldn't be manly if he read a book that interested his daughter.

Nothing about that has anything to do with you. You wouldn't want to make that pact with your daughter? Then don't.

The father was making a connection with his daughter and wasn't worried about his manhood. Suddenly, reading a book a daughter might like to you means he's not a man? I don't know what other conclusion to draw with your knee-jerk, over-the-top reaction to my post. Reading a book that interests a man's daughter would not make him less than a man in my book and the fact that it wouldn't cross his mind makes him more of a man in my eyes than someone who would feel it would affect their manhood.

I stand by my opinion that men who cannot understand that do not have confidence in themselves and constantly have to shout that they are a "man". I question how much a man someone can be if they have to constantly remind people.

You seem to be picking a fight with me and you jumped in the middle of the posts so you're not getting the drift of what is being said. Anyone is entitled to their opinion. That would include you and that would include me -- along with, yes even, edog.:)

What I think of your opinion won't change anything. And I do love to laugh.
You have now completely spun the issue around and are now saying that I've been saying he's less of a man for reading these books. So Toj of you!

In reality (you should check it out sometime ... reality that is) this whole conversation between you and me began because YOU were the one who led everything off by saying men who enjoy reading girl books are more secure than men who don't.

So it wasn't me saying he's less of a man (I ACTUALLY said it's not bad that a man would read a girl book ... With your reading comprehension issues you probably missed that part, tho, bwahaha ha), but you saying that he's more secure in his manhood that our conversation has revolved around. Go back and read the posts and you'll see it's true.

Rather than my saying he was less of a man, I simply said, actually it has nothing to do with being secure or not being secure. My whole point was that men often times choose not to do certain things simply because they don't interest us. All of my examples were directed at this point.

Most men don't get their nails done ... because it doesn't interest us and is not something we'd enjoy.

Most men don't make a day of shoe shopping ... because that doesn't interest us and is not something we'd enjoy.

Most men don't go shopping all day at the mall with their buddies ... because that doesn't interest us and is not something we'd enjoy.

Likewise most men don't read a lot of books are geared toward women and that girls find interesting ... because that doesn't interest us and is not something we'd enjoy.

Also, it's not like this guy was just being nice ... like I might do occasionally if my wife wanted to go to the ballet ... He sounds like he really enjoyed reading books that are primarily geared toward women. You take this to mean he's more secure than men who probably would not be interested in such things. I disagree. I take that to mean he enjoys books geared towards women. So it's more than just connecting. If it were all about connecting, there are plenty of other ways to connect with your daughter, other than reading twilight or whatever together.

“Licensed to Ill”

Since: Aug 08

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#152
Jan 23, 2013
 
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>We were talking about a man who promised his daughter he would read the books she felt were fabulous and she would read the books he liked as well.
Do you think he actually used the word "fabulous?"

<snicker>

“Licensed to Ill”

Since: Aug 08

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#153
Jan 23, 2013
 
pde wrote:
<quoted text>Ok. edog has, at multiple times, demonstrated on this group that he has problems with reading comprehension. That's what I was getting at with my post.

You, on the other hand, I feel quite sure could read and comprehend any of the stated authors without a problem. I'm not one of those getting into the whole question of whether you should or not, or are secure in yourself or not.

Here, I'll throw out what usually confounds anyone who I get into discussions about science fiction/fantasy/classics with. I DESPISE Tolkien. I also despise C.S. Lewis. I can comprehend their novels, doesn't mean I like them or have any desire to force myself to read them ;)
When I read Tolkien I was 16 or 17. I'm not sure how I would feel about it now. I liked the movies, tho.
pde

Gilberts, IL

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#154
Jan 23, 2013
 
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You take this to mean he's more secure than men who probably would not be interested in such things. I disagree. I take that to mean he enjoys books geared towards women. So it's more than just connecting. If it were all about connecting, there are plenty of other ways to connect with your daughter, other than reading twilight or whatever together.
And I disagree with you, because I look at the books he recommended to her, and the books she recommended to him, and find that on another level, there's not necessarily that much of a difference.

Austen is primarily romance literature but we don't actually know how many of her novels he ended up reading. Everything else on both his list and her list has historical literature aspects to it. Her list is historical literature with romantic aspects, his, historical literature with adventure aspects. And not even totally.

“Licensed to Ill”

Since: Aug 08

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#155
Jan 23, 2013
 
pde wrote:
And I wish more people could comprehend technical documentation. I have just wasted two days hand-holding people with impressive technical resumes who apparently can't comprehend simple workspace setup and build documentation.
It's really something that is an acquired skill and even more so than reading regular literature, which I think comes easy to most. It requires a lot of attention to detail and actively thinking as you do it, as I'm sure you know. Unlike a lot of reading that is easy to digest ... sometimes you gotta go back and reread portions.

“Licensed to Ill”

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#156
Jan 23, 2013
 
pde wrote:
<quoted text>And I disagree with you, because I look at the books he recommended to her, and the books she recommended to him, and find that on another level, there's not necessarily that much of a difference.

Austen is primarily romance literature but we don't actually know how many of her novels he ended up reading. Everything else on both his list and her list has historical literature aspects to it. Her list is historical literature with romantic aspects, his, historical literature with adventure aspects. And not even totally.
I haven't read those books so I don't have the faintest idea. I won't pretend otherwise. It is my understanding, however, that not too many men are big fans of Austen and some of those other authors.
pde

Gilberts, IL

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#157
Jan 23, 2013
 
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't read those books so I don't have the faintest idea. I won't pretend otherwise. It is my understanding, however, that not too many men are big fans of Austen and some of those other authors.
Well, he says he never would have picked up books by these authors if he hadn't had the bargain with his daughter to read them. That also doesn't necessarily imply he became a fan--just that he got something out of those particular novels.

My husband would never willingly pick up an Austen book--or any other romance novel--to read. But at some point during his teenaged years, he had to read, and got something out of Wuthering Heights (Bronte).

I also hate Wuthering Heights, so I find that funny. I have our dvr set up to record Masterpiece Classic. Most of it, he WILL NOT watch--I can't even get him to sit down and give Downton a chance. But he watched the recent remake of Wuthering Heights after I said "oh, gag, delete it."

I doubt I'd ever get him to read any other Bronte sister novel though.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

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#158
Jan 24, 2013
 
pde wrote:
Her list is historical literature with romantic aspects, his, historical literature with adventure aspects.
That seems like a stark difference to me.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#159
Jan 24, 2013
 
pde wrote:
Today's letter doesn't stand as an example?
Nope. When she was 12 they made a deal. What kind of books was she reading at 12?

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

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#160
Jan 24, 2013
 
pde wrote:
<quoted text>
And that's why I offered Heinlein, Anthony, and Azimov as examples of adult literature?
Do you even know who they are?
I might have heard of one of them. Never read any that I'm aware of though.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

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#161
Jan 24, 2013
 
My goodness, that sounds strangely like a personal attack.
Weren't you the one advocating we all play nice?
Toj wrote:
I find there are certain guys on here (Sub and edog for example) whose reading comprehension is sorely lacking.
When they are bored, they obviously twist what the conversation is about and then say the other person is twisting the conversation.
Then Sub gets all Sub-length in his posts and edog thinks he's brilliant b/c he uses a lot of words.
Upset, Sublikme? No. I am laughing at you. Not with you. At you.

Toj

“Equality”

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#162
Jan 24, 2013
 
RACE wrote:
My goodness, that sounds strangely like a personal attack.
Weren't you the one advocating we all play nice?
<quoted text>
I think there were a few people advocating that we all play nice. Gave in a tiny bit to the baiting.(mimishrug) We all have our days. At least I didn't say fully what I really think.:)

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