“...,to wit”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#81 Aug 14, 2013
Whether it is biological or cultural in origin, it is no less real that in the US men tend to be more stoic and less emotionally demonstrative. Stereotypes start someplace.

If it is cultural and you don't like it, work for change, but change happens at a cultural pace, meaning generations.

Since: Oct 09

Wagner, SD

#82 Aug 14, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
One word. Patriarchy.
Indeed, that's certainly appropriate. Although I also think that such cultural shyte is bad for men, also. Boys and men are still too often taught not to express their emotions, to suppress their feelings for the most part, and this is not only very unfair to them, it causes a lot of problems for them and their families, especially spouses. They're taught to "man up" and other such nonsense, as if their feelings and emotions don't matter.

My son is a young adult now, but when I was raising him as a single parent I could not believe how often I was criticized and disdained when I'd comfort him when he was hurt and crying, or when I'd hug him just because or on his request. You'd have thought I was abusing or neglecting him or something.

And he certainly didn't grow up to be a "nancy boy" or a "girly man" or any of those nonsense epithets used to degrade men who actually dare to express their feelings. He's as macho as they come, but still able to express his own emotions and to support and help others with their own.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#83 Aug 14, 2013
Oh Phooey!
He just mans up around you, but when he's alone he sobs over the way you stunted him emotionally, making him so mamby-pamby with his feelings. All the other guys laugh at him because he can color coordinate his clothes.

(ducks and runs!)
Judge Janie wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed, that's certainly appropriate. Although I also think that such cultural shyte is bad for men, also. Boys and men are still too often taught not to express their emotions, to suppress their feelings for the most part, and this is not only very unfair to them, it causes a lot of problems for them and their families, especially spouses. They're taught to "man up" and other such nonsense, as if their feelings and emotions don't matter.
My son is a young adult now, but when I was raising him as a single parent I could not believe how often I was criticized and disdained when I'd comfort him when he was hurt and crying, or when I'd hug him just because or on his request. You'd have thought I was abusing or neglecting him or something.
And he certainly didn't grow up to be a "nancy boy" or a "girly man" or any of those nonsense epithets used to degrade men who actually dare to express their feelings. He's as macho as they come, but still able to express his own emotions and to support and help others with their own.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#84 Aug 14, 2013
Judge Janie wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed, that's certainly appropriate. Although I also think that such cultural shyte is bad for men, also. Boys and men are still too often taught not to express their emotions, to suppress their feelings for the most part, and this is not only very unfair to them, it causes a lot of problems for them and their families, especially spouses. They're taught to "man up" and other such nonsense, as if their feelings and emotions don't matter.
My son is a young adult now, but when I was raising him as a single parent I could not believe how often I was criticized and disdained when I'd comfort him when he was hurt and crying, or when I'd hug him just because or on his request. You'd have thought I was abusing or neglecting him or something.
And he certainly didn't grow up to be a "nancy boy" or a "girly man" or any of those nonsense epithets used to degrade men who actually dare to express their feelings. He's as macho as they come, but still able to express his own emotions and to support and help others with their own.
ITA. I'm actually working on a paper right now, gender binaries, patriarchy, expectations, gender codes, etc. Males definitely have more privilege from their first breath (which is why they don't recognize it, it is like breathing to them) and have never know anything else, but I think women are given more understanding when trying on gender identities. Much more acceptable (at least now days) for a woman to be a long haul trucker than for a man to be a ballet dancer....

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#85 Aug 14, 2013
RACE wrote:
Oh Phooey!
He just mans up around you, but when he's alone he sobs over the way you stunted him emotionally, making him so mamby-pamby with his feelings. All the other guys laugh at him because he can color coordinate his clothes.
(ducks and runs!)
<quoted text>
Don't hold back, tell us what you really think.

I just finished writing a piece of my paper last night that deals with just this kind of language within groups of males. I love this place, it's like a microcosm of the bigger world because you guys all do this stuff on a small and easily observable scale.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#87 Aug 14, 2013
Yay! Were lab rats!
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't hold back, tell us what you really think.
I just finished writing a piece of my paper last night that deals with just this kind of language within groups of males. I love this place, it's like a microcosm of the bigger world because you guys all do this stuff on a small and easily observable scale.

Since: Oct 09

Wagner, SD

#88 Aug 14, 2013
RACE wrote:
Oh Phooey!
He just mans up around you, but when he's alone he sobs over the way you stunted him emotionally, making him so mamby-pamby with his feelings. All the other guys laugh at him because he can color coordinate his clothes.
(ducks and runs!)
<quoted text>
Ha, I WISH he could color coordinate his clothes! Actually, he has no sense of fashion or organization/detail at all. He'd wear the same jeans and the same Beatles or Chicago shirts over and over and over and over if he could. Then again, I never had much of that anyway, either, still don't. I may be a woman, but I hate shopping, especially clothes/shoes/accessory shopping, fashion, etc. I don't even like the color pink.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#90 Aug 14, 2013
Judge Janie wrote:
<quoted text>
So, are you the dog's brother or cousin? And "that's the way women are wired"? Really? Seriously? What the eff? Brother, this is 2013, not 1953, although this past year has often left me wondering about that. No, that is NOT the "way women are wired". That is the way we are CULTURALLY wired. See the huge difference? And that's the kind of shyte some men will use in order to justify not having to deal with the heavy-duty stuff, including caregiving and family emotional issues. Just dump it all on the woman because, ya know, that's just "the way she's wired."
This is such bullshit. You and hatti are drinking from the same fountain. Please provide an example of how one person, man or woman, can dump emotional issues on the other. If my mom is dying, that's going to affect me more than it will my wife. Likewise, if her mom's dying, it will affect her more. There is nothing I can do to dump my emotional burden in her or vice versa. Emotional issues affect each indivual seperately and cannont be passed off like the chore of doing the laundry.

“What's it to ya?”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#91 Aug 14, 2013
RACE wrote:
Yay! Were lab rats!
<quoted text>
I think of you guys more as lab BUNNIES.

(._.)

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#92 Aug 14, 2013
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
I think of you guys more as lab BUNNIES.
(._.)
and the mutt?

“Colorful Beyond Words”

Since: May 11

" Live, Laugh, Love "

#93 Aug 14, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I do understand what she is dealing with. However, I don't ask anyone to throw me a pity party. So why should I participate in one for her?
she didn't ask for a pity party

“Colorful Beyond Words”

Since: May 11

" Live, Laugh, Love "

#95 Aug 14, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
So because we're not "showing compassion" to someone whining and btching about everyday problems that just about everyone has to deal with to, we're "woman-bashing?" .

I didn't read this as " everyday " events. I read it as an extreme set of events that have occurred simultaneously causing more than "everyday" stress.

“Colorful Beyond Words”

Since: May 11

" Live, Laugh, Love "

#96 Aug 14, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, what's your bright idea on a good answer for her? how can she make it more bearable that her dog and mom are dying and her daughter is unemployed?
Amy had some good ideas ....

""Perhaps your daughter could be more helpful with your mother. Rather than see your husband as yet another person tugging on your sleeve, you should enlist him in your efforts to balance your compelling and competing family pressures. If you two worked as a team, you would feel less depleted because every day you would know that there was somebody out there who has your back.""

She is looking for help not someone to add to her troubles and who needs her time .

“Colorful Beyond Words”

Since: May 11

" Live, Laugh, Love "

#97 Aug 14, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>This is such bullshit. You and hatti are drinking from the same fountain. Please provide an example of how one person, man or woman, can dump emotional issues on the other. If my mom is dying, that's going to affect me more than it will my wife. Likewise, if her mom's dying, it will affect her more. There is nothing I can do to dump my emotional burden in her or vice versa. Emotional issues affect each indivual seperately and cannont be passed off like the chore of doing the laundry.
Are you telling me your wife is not the "hub-bub" of your family ? Because that would be very unusual . You don't pass off emotional issues , if you are in the family and things aRe happening to your family .. You are a part of it . Simply by expressing your feelings to your wife you have passed some emotional "issues" to her whether you want to believe that are not.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#98 Aug 14, 2013
Hatti_Hollerand wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you telling me your wife is not the "hub-bub" of your family ?
The what? WTF is a hub-bub?
Hatti_Hollerand wrote:
You don't pass off emotional issues , if you are in the family and things aRe happening to your family .. You are a part of it . Simply by expressing your feelings to your wife you have passed some emotional "issues" to her whether you want to believe that are not.
Well by that logic, then the reverse must be true as well and men carry their wives emotional issues as well, no? God knows women express their feelings way more than men. With that being the case, what's this nonsense about...
Hatti_Hollerand wrote:
It's a pretty well known fact that the Matriarchs of most families carry the emotional burdens of those families.
Are they carrying each other's burdens or is she carrying the burden of the family? Pick one and we can discuss further.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#99 Aug 14, 2013
Hatti_Hollerand wrote:
<quoted text>
Amy had some good ideas ....
""Perhaps your daughter could be more helpful with your mother. Rather than see your husband as yet another person tugging on your sleeve, you should enlist him in your efforts to balance your compelling and competing family pressures. If you two worked as a team, you would feel less depleted because every day you would know that there was somebody out there who has your back.""
She is looking for help not someone to add to her troubles and who needs her time .
So the advice is to ask for help? Verbalize what she needs from the people she needs it from? Instead of just wallowing in misery? Sounds like a plan.

As Race, Sublime, PE have said, you all are really reading into this from your own personal biases that the husband is needy vs trying to take her mind off things. She does not say anything about not getting help from him (or from anyone else for that matter) nor does she say anything about spelling out to anyone how they could be helpful.

You jumped on sub about compassion and empathy etc. I'm sure if this was any of our wives, we would not be so blunt as to say "Just get over it" or "man up" or whatever. But she's not our wife. She's a nameless faceless letter writer. We don't need to sugar coat anything. We can be blunt here and bluntly speaking, she is whining about how her life sucks. Unless someone knows of a miracle cure, there is not much anyone can do about her dying mother. SHE needs to come to grips with her impending demise. No one else can do it for her. Her daughter is unemployed? that's terrible. What does she expect anyone else(except her daughter) to do? The daughter needs to get a job. That is not her cross to bear. Her dog is dying? What is anyone supposed to do? Administer the meds on her behalf? OK. There's a bout 5 minutes per day of burden lifted from her shoulders. The grief she feels over the dog's impending demise? No one can fix that for her. Only she can come to grips with that.

Or she can wallow in misery over problems that are beyond her control.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me! Charlie

#100 Aug 14, 2013
You can call me Thumper!:)
Mimi Seattle wrote:
<quoted text>
I think of you guys more as lab BUNNIES.
(._.)

“Colorful Beyond Words”

Since: May 11

" Live, Laugh, Love "

#101 Aug 14, 2013
Mr T .. Verbose .

You must have saved that all day ... Glad you cut it all loose here.

Obvious differences of looking how the LW expressed herself and how things were interpreted.

Leaving it there or .... Here .

“Colorful Beyond Words”

Since: May 11

" Live, Laugh, Love "

#102 Aug 14, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
The what? WTF is a hub-bub?.
Where the action is .. The center of activity in the home .

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#103 Aug 14, 2013
Hatti_Hollerand wrote:
Mr T .. Verbose .
You must have saved that all day ... Glad you cut it all loose here.
Obvious differences of looking how the LW expressed herself and how things were interpreted.
Leaving it there or .... Here .
This site is blocked at work, so my only interaction during the day is thru my phone at lunch. Not writing dissertations on my smart phone keyboard.

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