Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#61 Feb 12, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
That's about the same as any other animal, including chickens and reptiles.
And at three weeks, many women won't even know they're pregnant.
Chickens and reptiles aren't humans. We eat adult chickens. So, it's not the same.

If 3 by 3 weeks many women don't even know they are pregnant that means they are having abortions after things have progressed beyond a mass of cells. That means women are having abortions after organs are forming.
Sam I Am

Knoxville, TN

#62 Feb 12, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
And if he knocked someone up and has a kid, would you want to know that?
Stupid question. Misses the entire point of the discussion. See post #25.
pde

Homer Glen, IL

#63 Feb 12, 2013
Ouch. I tried to make that one compound sentence, then I tried to break it up into two and obviously failed hard on the editing attempt.

So, corrected:

I think that a man who feels that discovering a woman had an abortion once before he even knew/was involved with her is a deal breaker, needs to get over himself.

Just as I think that a woman who feels that discovering that a man paid for a hooker once before she even knew/was involved with him is a deal breaker, needs to get over herself.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#64 Feb 12, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
Other than edog, I certainly cannot be the only one who views this as absurd.

My 2 cents
-I agree with the principle. You are free to choose whomever you want as a mate. If having a prior abortion is enough for you to disqualify them from conention, that is your right
-I agree with your analogy about hookers ini Nevada. 2 legal acts that still speak to the morality of the person in question. And that is not a blanket statement saying abortion is immoral, but just a reference point that if you find it immoral, then perhaps you have different views on morality than the person who had one.

My disagreements

-as usual, I don't subscribe to "lies of omission". It is not a lie. I am not obligated to tell anyone anything. But that being said, I agree, if the fact that you did not share comes out and proves detrimental to your relationship, you have no one to cry to. I just don't characterize it as a lie.
-you keep trying to place having an abortion as either a positive or a negative. You view it as a negative, a deal killer, but seem to be taking the stance that if it is not a deal killer for someone else, then it must be a positive. I don't think anyone views it as a positive. What's more accurate is they don't view it as a deal killer. It is something they are either indifferent to or they don't view it as such a grave offense that they would not want a relationship with that person.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#65 Feb 12, 2013
pde wrote:
<quoted text>
And I think that either a man who feels that discovering she had an abortion once before he even knew/was involved with the woman is a deal breaker, needs to get over himself.
Just a woman who feels that discovering that a man paying for a hooker once before she even knew/was involved with the man is a deal breaker, needs to get over herself.
Although, in the second case, if the man had never had an STD screening after sleeping with the hooker, I think she would be within her rights to request that.
There's nothing equivalent in the first case, since abortion doesn't have any long-term way it could physically affect the man.
It goes to the issue of morals, IMO. I find aborting an unborn baby to be immoral. I find it to be taking the short way out. I find it as saying, I would rather terminate a living unborn developing child who is already forming organs, rather than be inconvenienced with pregnancy, delivery, and adoption or raising the child.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#66 Feb 12, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
And if he knocked someone up and has a kid, would you want to know that?
If you want to know, you are free to ask. However, this is a far different scenarion than wanting to know if he knocked someone up and they got an abortion. Actual living children who could come knocking on the door any day looking for daddy is something that has actual ongoing future implications. Having had an abortion in the past does not.

Apples and oranges.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#67 Feb 12, 2013
pde wrote:
There's nothing equivalent in the first case, since abortion doesn't have any long-term way it could physically affect the man.
Am I wrong in that in some cases, abortion results in a woman no longer being able to have children? If that is true, then that would certainly affect a man who wants to have a family.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#68 Feb 12, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
My 2 cents
-I agree with the principle. You are free to choose whomever you want as a mate. If having a prior abortion is enough for you to disqualify them from conention, that is your right
-I agree with your analogy about hookers ini Nevada. 2 legal acts that still speak to the morality of the person in question. And that is not a blanket statement saying abortion is immoral, but just a reference point that if you find it immoral, then perhaps you have different views on morality than the person who had one.
My disagreements
-as usual, I don't subscribe to "lies of omission". It is not a lie. I am not obligated to tell anyone anything. But that being said, I agree, if the fact that you did not share comes out and proves detrimental to your relationship, you have no one to cry to. I just don't characterize it as a lie.
-you keep trying to place having an abortion as either a positive or a negative. You view it as a negative, a deal killer, but seem to be taking the stance that if it is not a deal killer for someone else, then it must be a positive. I don't think anyone views it as a positive. What's more accurate is they don't view it as a deal killer. It is something they are either indifferent to or they don't view it as such a grave offense that they would not want a relationship with that person.
I can get on board with all that.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#69 Feb 12, 2013
(Waves from the sidelines)
I'm good over here dude, you have your fun!
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Other than edog, I certainly cannot be the only one who views this as absurd.
I try not to pass judgement on anyone until I walk a mile in their shoes, so regardless of whether I view abortion as good or bad is irrelevant, what is important is the "Why" for getting one.

And of course there is my standard gripe about the double standard of women bearing or not of children in general.

If a woman chooses an abortion its "Her body", but if she carries it to term its suddenly "A mans child". I will never agree with that thinking.
pde

Homer Glen, IL

#70 Feb 12, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
It goes to the issue of morals, IMO. I find aborting an unborn baby to be immoral. I find it to be taking the short way out. I find it as saying, I would rather terminate a living unborn developing child who is already forming organs, rather than be inconvenienced with pregnancy, delivery, and adoption or raising the child.
And I personally find sleeping with a hooker, even a legal hooker in Nevada, to be more immoral.
plumloco

United States

#71 Feb 12, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
PDE, I'm not here to defend other peoples logic or choices in terms of who they want in a mate. The point I'm trying to make is people are free to decide what they want in a mate, regardless of whether I agree with it or not.
Maybe I spoke to sharply initially in saying I would not ever view someone who had an abortion as relationship material, but I would view it as something very negative. That is my prerogative.
As with often times on the left, the same can be said of the women's movement ... either you agree with them 100% and take things to the ultimate extreme or you are a woman hater. It's not enough for someone such as plumloco that I support a woman's right to choose ... nope I have to also view abortion as some wonderful positive thing ... something that I would place highly on my list of wants ... or else I am a prick and a woman hater. Other than edog, I certainly cannot be the only one who views this as absurd.
I'm not saying that you have to view it as something wonderful and amazing - that's not why I called you a prick. I called you that because you called a woman having an abortion a "baby killer."
pde

Homer Glen, IL

#72 Feb 12, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text>
Am I wrong in that in some cases, abortion results in a woman no longer being able to have children? If that is true, then that would certainly affect a man who wants to have a family.
In very rare cases, there are complications that can result in that.

But, the complications that arise from pregnancy/delivery that can result in a woman who is no longer able to have any further children are actually more common (by percentage).

So, once pregnant, either abortion or continuing the pregnancy can result in rare complications which may affect the ability to have children past the current one.
pde

Homer Glen, IL

#73 Feb 12, 2013
(Oh, and STDs are a much more common reason for fertility problems. So, if you had an STD as a teen which was successfully treated and cured, are you required to tell the man or woman you start dating in your mid-twenties about it?)

Since: Dec 09

Smalltown, Colorado

#74 Feb 12, 2013
RACE wrote:
Listen to his Shari, he's had women beat him with chairs, so he knows what he's talking about.
<quoted text>
For some reason that doesn't suprise me.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#75 Feb 12, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
<quoted text> If you want to know, you are free to ask. However, this is a far different scenarion than wanting to know if he knocked someone up and they got an abortion. Actual living children who could come knocking on the door any day looking for daddy is something that has actual ongoing future implications. Having had an abortion in the past does not.
Apples and oranges.
You're ignoring a basic fact. Whether it's an abortion, a kid, serving time, r@pping a midgit, these are actions and information a significant other has a right to know about.

Just because my girlfriend didn't specifically ASK if I had ever molested a kitten, doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to know about it, and I have an obligation to disclose that.
angela

Saint Paul, MN

#76 Feb 12, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I can get on board with all that.
Me too!

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#77 Feb 12, 2013
pde wrote:
Ouch. I tried to make that one compound sentence, then I tried to break it up into two and obviously failed hard on the editing attempt.
So, corrected:
I think that a man who feels that discovering a woman had an abortion once before he even knew/was involved with her is a deal breaker, needs to get over himself.
Just as I think that a woman who feels that discovering that a man paid for a hooker once before she even knew/was involved with him is a deal breaker, needs to get over herself.
It speaks to the MORALS of a person. And someone's morals play a HUGE factor in if they're someone you want to date or not.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#78 Feb 12, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
"significant other has a right to know "
Wrong. No one has a RIGHT to know anything about me that I don't want to share. That being said, if my deep dark secret comes to light, I have no RIGHT to expect them to overlook it.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#79 Feb 12, 2013
plumloco wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not saying that you have to view it as something wonderful and amazing - that's not why I called you a prick. I called you that because you called a woman having an abortion a "baby killer."
Wrong ... That is revisionist history. You called me a prick in your first post #38, which is before I said baby killer. You called me a prick just cause I said I would view a woman who had one as not a very desirable. Maybe baby killer was too sharp, but you kind of pissed me off ... I was throwing down the gauntlets.

To you, it's not enough that I support a woman's right to choose, I also have to agree not to hold it against any woman and pretend I don't have a problem with it (even though my conscience and heart tells me it is not positive), or I am a prick, in your book.

Then you took a cheap shot and attacked me and called me arrogant for sharing a story that was on point because you were mad about my views. That was cheap. I don't think I'm anything special, and I think I am hard to love, actually. But, I can't help it if some women have chased me. Over my lifetime a number of women have been kind of pushy with me, though. I think it's funny. Whatever ... please, please, please, "don't hate me because I'm beautiful." :p
pde

Homer Glen, IL

#80 Feb 12, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
It speaks to the MORALS of a person. And someone's morals play a HUGE factor in if they're someone you want to date or not.
Morals also aren't something that are static over the course of a person's life. If the stuff people did as teenagers are supposed to represent their moral quality as an adult, you in particular seem to be in big trouble.

So, I guess you disclose to possible girlfriends all the stuff you have disclosed to us around here? When do you talk about tapping drunk/incoherent underaged girls at parties when you were a teenager? First or second date?

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