Atheists can't prove there is no God.
Sam I Am

Palatine, IL

#182 Sep 12, 2011
glee wrote:
<quoted text>
I can tell you would reject Christ's love anyway , so the original poster you are talking to would be wasting his/her time answering to you. You are an idiot, plain and simple, flashing a bunch of questions just to dodge the reality that you are an idiot.
Is that how Jesus would answer a person who questioned his existence? Call him an idiot and say he's not going to waste his time? Well that certainly is a ringing endorsement for Christianity.
Sam I Am

Palatine, IL

#183 Sep 12, 2011
The beach wrote:
<quoted text>
That's where the problem is growing. Atheists are destroying the country by ripping rights away from Christians and any other establishments that teach and promote goodness and high morals.
Oh, you mean goodness like promoting the concept that AIDS is God's punishment for homosexuality? You mean goodness like being part of the platform of the Republican party, the very same party that promotes the disparity between rich and poor and is patently opposed to helping the less fortunate? The kind of goodness that is used more often as a sword than as a shield?

Some of the most judgmental, vindictive people I have ever met are "Christians." Christianity is nothing more than an older version of Old Mother Goose, a set of stories fabricated to teach lessons a certain set of people wanted taught. And why are people Christians? "Because the Bible says...." Oh, so the premise of Christianity says it is so? What a surprise. 99.9% of Christians have never questioned Christianity or explored another faith or atheism. Mommy and Daddy said Christianity is where it's at, so you just carried the flag. Please prove me wrong and share just one independent thought demonstrating the existence of God, instead of parroting some variation of "I am the way and the light...."
Jack

Oak Harbor, OH

#184 Jan 22, 2012
ok atheists give me 100 percent proof,that there is no God,but dont use evolution,big bang,aliens,infinite universe,or a personal belief.just give me 100 percent proof that there is no God.
Jack

Oak Harbor, OH

#185 Jan 22, 2012
and also.dont say things such as,there is no God,religion is poison,God is imaginary,theists are stupid,or anything like that just provide 100 percent stone hard proof and evidence that there is no God

Since: Jan 11

Chicago

#186 Jan 28, 2012
Jack wrote:
just provide 100 percent stone hard proof and evidence that there is no God
That is the thing Jack, there is no evidence to support either side. One ( the theist) side is based on faith and belief. The oppose is based on a absence of god physically beyond emotion and personal experiences on a spiritual bases. We simply do not see any reason to believe in god. I can not prove that there is no god. At the same time, you can not indefinably prove that there is one.
meh

Southport, NC

#187 Jan 30, 2012
god is my bitch and jesus was a fggot.
thisgo

Saltville, VA

#188 Apr 9, 2012
what if your an agnostic and you still pray..

cuz you don't feel there is any way to know..
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#189 May 14, 2012
Frank Rizzo wrote:
Then why do they smuggly act as if they have a patent on the truth, and that anyone else who disagrees with them must be an idiot?
Doesn't this general attitude among atheists, make them stupid?
Atheists are lazy... It's always easier to believe a negative - It's human nature. So atheists are lazy...and stupid.
let me help you and everyone else who does not understand this issue.

it is often helpful to divide atheists into two subgroups, one is called "hard" atheists. those in this group claim to know that there is no god, God, or gods. they claim they can prove it in some cases, or that it has been proven in other cases.

the other type of subgroup category is often called "soft" atheism, but I am that sort of atheist and I strongly dislike the term "soft." There is nothing soft about this view. As an agnostic atheist, I make no claim to know that there is no god, God, or gods. I do not claim that the nonexistence of such alleged beings has been proven by anyone or taht I could prove it.
(I am a hard atheist with regard to only one definition of God - which would be as an allpowerful and allgood Being, which I believe is impossible). Mostly I am an agnostic atheist. I do not believe in any God, god, or gods that I have ever read about or heard about, but I make no claim that I am certain that they do not exist, no claim that I know they do not exist, no claim that anyone has proven they do not exist.

I even set up a thread on the atheist forum entitled

prove there is no god

in order to challenge the so-called hard atheists to try to prove it, or to cite some source where they claim it has been proven.

There are two problems that always must be faced. One is that the standard of proof is not explained. The other is that the definition of the god, God, or gods alleged to exist or not exist has not been clearly explained. This makes either claim of knowledge into nonsense - whether of knowing there is one, or of knowing there is not one.

I know this is difficult for both sides who are extreme to understand, and they like to misstate the views of the other side all too often, possibly because they cannot prove their case, either way.

Your comments show you do not understand, but do not fear - there are also hard atheists who do not understand, to balance you out. Though I think that proportionately more atheists are agnostic atheists than hard atheists.

I do not know what proportioin of believers in this or that or those god, God, or gods claim to know or to be able to prove its or their existence, and would not guess. It is possible for a person to be an agnostic and also to believe in a god, God, or gods. The person who says he believes but does not claim to know or be able to prove, is an agnostic theist, by my definition. It is a modest point of view, just as the view of agnostic atheism is a modest point of view. I happen to approve of the lack of egotistical bragging in an agnostic underlying view, either in a believer or a nonbeliever.

In the case of the believer, I then look at what sort of Being the believer thinks is God, and what characteristics it has and how it has allegedly behaved. Though I usually doubt that it actually exists, I do judge the decency of the believer by what sort of god, God, or gods he or she believes in - and I judge that person's intelligence and educational background as well.

I also judge both believers and nonbelievers by the amount of nastiness, bad language and insults, and falsification of the views of others, in their comments. spelling itself is not so important, since folks make typos, and some words are really silly in the way they are spelled. but rational thought is often evident, or not. so is kind intent, or not.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#190 May 14, 2012
thisgo wrote:
what if your an agnostic and you still pray..
cuz you don't feel there is any way to know..
that would be possible, for an agnostic who is not also an atheist. such a person could be either a believer, or a hedger who is not comfortable with complete non-belief. such a person could be desperate and hope there might be a nice supernatural power handy to be helpful. I think it is another way of the child in us crying for mommy to help us, and that it is natural - because we needed her and often enough we got her help. Jesus is a rather nice substitute for mommy - but God is not. Jesus seems kinder and gentler than the monotheistic God of Christianity - if one counts mostly the red words allegedly spoken by him in human form, and not the red words that some nutcase attributes to him as a god. I do not have to be a believer at all to look at the alleged words of Jesus and think that some of them were kind. Someone at least wrote or said them, and someone wrote them down and continued to do so. To the extent that those words are kind, then thanks to those folks. I don't think it was God that wrote it, however. and I do think there were a few not quite nice enough words attributed to Jesus, also. That does not mean I feel sure such a person even existed, even as a mere person and non-God and non-onlybegottensonofgod.

I am probably less unfriendly to christians as such and in general than many atheists are. I have to see the details of their belief to know whether I approve or disapprove of those beliefs. I have nice Christian friends.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#191 May 14, 2012
Jack wrote:
and also.dont say things such as,there is no God,religion is poison,God is imaginary,theists are stupid,or anything like that just provide 100 percent stone hard proof and evidence that there is no God
I actually think that is a fair challenge to hard atheists as such. Any atheist making such a strong claim is asking to be challenged to explain it and prove it. Of course, their failure to do so DOES NOT mean that there is a God, that religion is good, that God is real, that theists are smart, and that there is evidence that there is a God.

Because it is just as easy to challenge believers to prove with l00 percent stone hard proof and evidence that there is a God.

As an agnostic, I am very comfortable with not knowing.

I think I can explain some of the hostility that some atheists have toward Christianity, if that will help you understand them. Some of them were raised in an extremely harsh repressive authoritarian religious familiy or system, and were mistreated and limited and maybe almost brainwashed and certainly not allowed to question what they were told. By reacting against this, they generalized to oppose all Christianity, even the kinder, gentler, more tolerant varieties.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#192 May 14, 2012
This is a good example of the sort of thing I do not approve of.
meh wrote:
god is my bitch and jesus was a fggot.
One can disagree with a religious view and not be nasty about it.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#193 May 14, 2012
This comment is an illustration of my point that atheists can also demand that those who claim that the know there is a God should be able to prove it. Both demands are impossible to meet, I believe, for various reasons which I could explain if anyone wants to discuss it. To start with - that the term God is not defined and the standard of proof is not explained.

But the second point of this comment is to question whether the rightwing extremist view of a God is of a good God. This person is being ethical in refusing to believe in a bad God.

The third point of the comment is to try to explain why many Christians do not question their faith - it was part of their earliest upbringing and given to them by Mommy and Daddy, and seems to be part of that bond, and thus feels like it must be accepted, as if it would be taboo to question it.

I think some folks are lucky to have kind and gentle persons as parents who do not emphasize the hell parts of religion, and who do not emphasize the threatening God of the Bible. And some are lucky to have parents who allow their children to read and think about other views. I read a poll that shows that many believers do not even believe that nonbelievers will go to a hell. The more who disagree with that nasty threat, the more "progress" Christianity makes toward being somewhat civilized.
Sam I Am wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, you mean goodness like promoting the concept that AIDS is God's punishment for homosexuality? You mean goodness like being part of the platform of the Republican party, the very same party that promotes the disparity between rich and poor and is patently opposed to helping the less fortunate? The kind of goodness that is used more often as a sword than as a shield?
Some of the most judgmental, vindictive people I have ever met are "Christians." Christianity is nothing more than an older version of Old Mother Goose, a set of stories fabricated to teach lessons a certain set of people wanted taught. And why are people Christians? "Because the Bible says...." Oh, so the premise of Christianity says it is so? What a surprise. 99.9% of Christians have never questioned Christianity or explored another faith or atheism. Mommy and Daddy said Christianity is where it's at, so you just carried the flag. Please prove me wrong and share just one independent thought demonstrating the existence of God, instead of parroting some variation of "I am the way and the light...."
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#194 May 14, 2012
those who claim that they know, sorry about typo
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#195 May 14, 2012
Zachh wrote:
<quoted text>
That is the thing Jack, there is no evidence to support either side. One ( the theist) side is based on faith and belief. The oppose is based on a absence of god physically beyond emotion and personal experiences on a spiritual bases. We simply do not see any reason to believe in god. I can not prove that there is no god. At the same time, you can not indefinably prove that there is one.
ah - a sensible agnostic atheist. a very clear statement of that view.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#196 May 14, 2012
Sam I Am wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that how Jesus would answer a person who questioned his existence? Call him an idiot and say he's not going to waste his time? Well that certainly is a ringing endorsement for Christianity.
I suspect that you are a person who also sees some kindness in some of the words attributed to Jesus, and disapproves of the nastiness of some self-identifying Christians. I often say that even without believing that he actually existed, I have a nicer Jesus than many of the believers! I especially object to the Jesus Christ the blood sacrifice who died for our sins if we believe he was the only begotten son of God. That implies rape and cannibalism, as well as blood sacrifice, if one delves deeply into the story. The girl was an underage virgin. Have you read the poem Leda and the Swan? I think it was Zeus as a swan who was trying to rape her - the illustrations of that poem are startling. I think of that when I consider the notion of Jesus as being a begotten son of God, with an underage virgin.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#197 May 14, 2012
Real Liberty wrote:
<quoted text>And as long as you do not interfere with others rights to beleive or not why does it matter?
It actually matters if someone derives an ethic from their belief system, that leads toward bad consequences. In my view, there is such variation in Christianity that one could derive a very moral ethic from it by emphasizing only certain points, and one could derive a very immoral ethic from it by emphasizing other points. That is why I always attack rightwing extremist fundies, and especially the types whom I describe as the Armageddon Welcoming and Facilitating Committee - those who would vote for a President who would want to start WWIII in order to bring about a type of Armageddon described by the fundie version of book of revelation - often an end times scenario in which they are safely raptured up to sit with God and Jesus on clouds, and have safe seats from which to watch the suffering of all other living beings. Those are the dangerous types - and it is a highly political matter. It is why you will sometimes see atheists like me denouncing the rightwing of the new GOP - people like Palin and Santorum and Bush and Wolfowitz - as part of our objection to rightwing extremist religious views.(of course I am an agnostic atheist - and thus would welcome believers who also are opposed to that horrid scenario - I do not regard all Christians as the enemy).
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#198 May 14, 2012
Zachh wrote:
<quoted text>
Try talking with an atheist and get a understanding what they believe in, before making any sorts of false assumptions about them. I myself, do not believe in a god. Not because I am upset at something I don't believe in, but because their is no substantial evidence supporting any claim in their being a god. Also, anyone who claims they are an Atheist because they are angry with go is actually a pissed off theist. How do I know? Well first and foremost it goes against the structure of what Atheism is ( A dis belief in any or all deities or supernatural beings)
thanks for another helpful comment. please feel free to look up the atheist forum on topix and contribute. you would probably find interesting people there, and you would add to the conversation.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#199 May 14, 2012
Cutie wrote:
That stupid God will answer and deliver people that's never missed a meal in their life, God will literally perform oral sex on people like that!, Yet, God will not listen to those poor Africans who are starving to death, God just laughs at them!,God needs to go burn forever that big bright SADIST!, Satan is a lot more kind then that stupid God ever thought about being.
you are describing the allpowerful God that the extreme rightwingers seem to believe in. I think your phrasing on one sentence is a bit overthetop. I do however tend to occasionally use the term ass kissers for the attitude that some folks take toward a powerful God - they think they will be saved if they flatter Him enough. and I use the word Him on purpose, since I think he is modeled after some males.(not all, "thank god" to coin a phrase!)

You are quite correct that there is a success religion dogma that says if one does well God has blessed you and you deserve it, and by implication, it appears that they think that the poor deserve to be poor as well. This is a terribly cruel view.

The Satan you describe is I think derived from Prometheus. Those who try to help mankind. an independent actor defying God by trying to educate and help man to stand on his own feet.

Another version of Satan is as God's flunkie behind whom he hides, by allowing horrid things to happen, and then blaming them on Satan. Obviously an allpowerful God would be responsible for the things he allowed to happen while turning his back and blaming someone else for it.

I personally believe that an allgoodallpowerful God is impossible.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#200 May 14, 2012
Jackie wrote:
Athiests can't prove there's no God and religious people can't prove there is. So I guess this is a stalemate.
that is a sensible summation as far as it goes. the term agnostic is derived from the previx a, meaning not, and the word gnostic meaning claiming to know ( or knowing - though of course I do not think that the claimants to knowing actually do know).

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#201 May 14, 2012
I'm a christian and even I know god doesn't exist.

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