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cheluzal

Plant City, FL

#22 Aug 3, 2013
No, thanks.
I know my family dynamic and I have made my choices.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#23 Aug 5, 2013
Cheluzal and I are not chummy by any stretch of the imagination, but I gotta say I think you are out of like to dictate that she show compassion for her mother. You know nothing of the dynamics of her relationship and I think it is rather preachy of you to try and armchair diagnose it.

How about you just encourage her to use her faith to help her get along, or at least tolerate her mother.

I know you think I'm picking on you, but I'm really not, I just think your words are hurtful to her.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
Have some compassion for your mother. There must be something in her life that made her thought process where she thinks she is not worthy or she should not work on herself. She may feel after taking care of everyone she just doesn't have the energy. I've read about your brother. It might be a bit of depression over taking care of someone for so long. I'm not saying you should enable her nor give any more effort in it, just rethink the respect part.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#24 Aug 5, 2013
RACE wrote:
Cheluzal and I are not chummy by any stretch of the imagination, but I gotta say I think you are out of like to dictate that she show compassion for her mother. You know nothing of the dynamics of her relationship and I think it is rather preachy of you to try and armchair diagnose it.
How about you just encourage her to use her faith to help her get along, or at least tolerate her mother.
I know you think I'm picking on you, but I'm really not, I just think your words are hurtful to her.
<quoted text>
So it's hurtful to rethink respect. Got it.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#25 Aug 5, 2013
No its hurtful to tell someone they must do something they have decided not to do because YOU say so. It is an intensely personal decision, and not one you should be telling her she is wrong about and that she must capitulate to what you want her to do instead.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
So it's hurtful to rethink respect. Got it.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#26 Aug 5, 2013
We talk about "Boundaries" all the time on here, and I just happen to think you overstepped them.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#27 Aug 5, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
So it's hurtful to rethink respect. Got it.
There is an old saying, respect is earned, not given. The alternative is the road to doormatville, IMO.

You,ďToj the Almighty and All Knowing,Ē after having read one brief paragraph describing the situation, are in no position to tell her she needs to rethink respect. It's really not your place to tell her who she should and shouldn't respect, especially given how removed you are from the situation.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#28 Aug 5, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
There is an old saying, respect is earned, not given. The alternative is the road to doormatville, IMO.
You,ďToj the Almighty and All Knowing,Ē after having read one brief paragraph describing the situation, are in no position to tell her she needs to rethink respect. It's really not your place to tell her who she should and shouldn't respect, especially given how removed you are from the situation.
You're always ready to jump in as long as it's some kind of piling on and you believe you have someone else in your corner.

I reread my post. I saw no hurtful things.

I didn't bring up her mother's issues, either. You put it things on a public form, someone may comment. I didn't think I did so disrepectfully.

And if it hurt Chel, I believe she would tell me herself. She's not exactly a wilting flower.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#29 Aug 5, 2013
RACE wrote:
No its hurtful to tell someone they must do something they have decided not to do because YOU say so. It is an intensely personal decision, and not one you should be telling her she is wrong about and that she must capitulate to what you want her to do instead.
<quoted text>
Plesae tell me where I told her she must do anything. I suggested rethinking something.

I respect her enough to know she will eventually choose whatever fits her and if what fits her is what is happening, that will continue.

You bored today or what?

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#30 Aug 5, 2013
Here is your quote, please show me the word "suggest"
I see....
"Have some compassion for your mother."


Which is a command not a suggestion, and the basis for my posting to you to begin with. Its not boredom, just trying to get you to examine what you write and see the "wrongness" of "telling" (not suggesting) someone else what kind of relationship they should have with their mother.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
Have some compassion for your mother. There must be something in her life that made her thought process where she thinks she is not worthy or she should not work on herself. She may feel after taking care of everyone she just doesn't have the energy. I've read about your brother. It might be a bit of depression over taking care of someone for so long. I'm not saying you should enable her nor give any more effort in it, just rethink the respect part.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
Plesae tell me where I told her she must do anything. I suggested rethinking something.
I respect her enough to know she will eventually choose whatever fits her and if what fits her is what is happening, that will continue.
You bored today or what?

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#31 Aug 5, 2013
RACE wrote:
Here is your quote, please show me the word "suggest"
I see....
"Have some compassion for your mother."
Which is a command not a suggestion, and the basis for my posting to you to begin with. Its not boredom, just trying to get you to examine what you write and see the "wrongness" of "telling" (not suggesting) someone else what kind of relationship they should have with their mother.
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Nope. Not sorry. Never will be sorry for telling someone I think having some compassion would be good. The actual action you might even say I told her to do was: "I'm not saying you should enable her nor give any more effort in it, just rethink the respect part."

I specially said I wasn't saying more effort should be made to rethink respect.

You want me to be sorry and think I am a big meany for suggesting someone have some compassion for their mother. I really don't have any power to tell anyone what to do. "Have some compassion" to me is a suggestion. I guess it isn't for you.

As I said. I reread my post and do not believe it was hurtful and if Chel thinks it's hurtful I am sure she will take it up with me.

So I've already reexamined it. No ill will was meant and I will not continue to talk about this with you. If Chel wanted to, I would.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#32 Aug 5, 2013
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
You're always ready to jump in as long as it's some kind of piling on and you believe you have someone else in your corner.
Actually, I rarely jump on folks who are being pummeled by a group of others on here. And I think over the course of time, itís readily apparent that I speak my mind and draw my own conclusions, regardless of who is or isnít in my corner.

Please. This is just grasping at straws. You couldnít have said anything more off base, especially when you contend Iím a wall flower unless I have folks in my corner.
Toj wrote:
<quoted text>
I reread my post. I saw no hurtful things.
I didn't bring up her mother's issues, either. You put it things on a public form, someone may comment. I didn't think I did so disrepectfully.
And if it hurt Chel, I believe she would tell me herself. She's not exactly a wilting flower.
I never said anything about hurt feelings. Cunzel is a pretty strong woman. I doubt you could hurt her feelings.

Not disrespectfully, but certainly condescendingly.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#33 Aug 5, 2013
RACE wrote:
Here is your quote, please show me the word "suggest"
I see....
"Have some compassion for your mother."
Which is a command not a suggestion
Exactly. Not only that, but according to Toj she needs to "rethink respect."

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#34 Aug 5, 2013
My 2 cents:

I don't think she was disrespectful or hurtful in any way. However, I think she was silly to presume that Chel just willy nilly decided that her mother did not deserve her respect and needs to rethink that when the most likely scenario is that a lifetime of living with her mother has provided her with an overload of experiences that have eroded away any respect she had to begin with.

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#35 Aug 5, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
My 2 cents:
I don't think she was disrespectful or hurtful in any way. However, I think she was silly to presume that Chel just willy nilly decided that her mother did not deserve her respect and needs to rethink that when the most likely scenario is that a lifetime of living with her mother has provided her with an overload of experiences that have eroded away any respect she had to begin with.
No -- I really didn't think Chel willy nilly decided that her mother did not deserve respect. I assumed she had put a lot of effort in it as her post sort of indicated. I also assumed, perhaps wrongly but this is more of a convo I'd have with Chel, that it came out of anger. If it did so be it. If it didn't it didn't.

I have a laundry list of reasons that someone would not respect my mother if they were me. I learned as I got older that she had issues that affected her actions and reasonings. I didn't learn that until in my 40s. With some perspective on her life, it made me understand what my mother had been through. While I did not respect certain things she did, she as a person and as my mother who had the life she had, I could respect her and that she did as best she could with what she had in her "tool kit" so to speak.

So that's my perspective on the whole thing.

I appreciate it that you realize I was not trying to be hurtful. I also know I do not have the power to make someone do anything and I read other people's post with that in mind as well.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#36 Aug 5, 2013
I dont think she "Meant" to be hurtful or disrespectful, but that is how she came across to me.
Mister Tonka wrote:
My 2 cents:
I don't think she was disrespectful or hurtful in any way. However, I think she was silly to presume that Chel just willy nilly decided that her mother did not deserve her respect and needs to rethink that when the most likely scenario is that a lifetime of living with her mother has provided her with an overload of experiences that have eroded away any respect she had to begin with.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#37 Aug 5, 2013
The way Chel's mother tried to poison her against her father is unforgiveable in my book. I wouldn't blame her if she cut her mother out. Her mother seems toxic.
cheluzal

Plant City, FL

#38 Aug 5, 2013
Mister Tonka wrote:
My 2 cents:
I don't think she was disrespectful or hurtful in any way. However, I think she was silly to presume that Chel just willy nilly decided that her mother did not deserve her respect and needs to rethink that when the most likely scenario is that a lifetime of living with her mother has provided her with an overload of experiences that have eroded away any respect she had to begin with.
Ding! Ding!

Toj: I disagreed with your armchair assessment, but I honestly didn't have the energy to engage you further. It really wasn't worth it (I don't mean that rudely); I just didn't feel like justifying my choice, that took me 34 years to get to. Some people here know more to the story.

And we flame LWs for not setting HEALTHY boundaries, which is what I have done. It is not easy. I love my mom, but I do not respect her as a person. She is sick and broken and I will love her from a healthy distance.
No one should mistreat you, even if they did birth me.
cheluzal

Plant City, FL

#39 Aug 5, 2013
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
The way Chel's mother tried to poison her against her father is unforgiveable in my book. I wouldn't blame her if she cut her mother out. Her mother seems toxic.
Thank you. She is, and cannot see her culpability.
I will admit I was not always perfect but I was a good child! We had a fine relationship growing up, but she flamed dad my whole life. It took about age 30 for me to see dad wasn't that bad (and he was never trashing mom this whole time).
I am closer to dad now and we can talk fine, but I'll never get those years back. I'll never have the relationship I wanted, but I've made peace with it.

When she's mad at dad (daily) she pulls me in. She automatically tranfers her hatred of dad to me, which is grossly unfair.
I have created a life without strife, yelling, or cursing, and I refuse to be subjected to it by anyone else.

My parents just now got internet, so I email her daily. She is much nicer online than the phone, rofl!

Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#40 Aug 5, 2013
cheluzal wrote:
<quoted text>
Ding! Ding!
Toj: I disagreed with your armchair assessment, but I honestly didn't have the energy to engage you further. It really wasn't worth it (I don't mean that rudely); I just didn't feel like justifying my choice, that took me 34 years to get to. Some people here know more to the story.
And we flame LWs for not setting HEALTHY boundaries, which is what I have done. It is not easy. I love my mom, but I do not respect her as a person. She is sick and broken and I will love her from a healthy distance.
No one should mistreat you, even if they did birth me.
Oh, I understand and wouldn't take what you said as rude (even if you didn't haver the "don't mean that rudely").

I didn't mean any disrespect to you either and my feelings were no where near what Race and Sub were guessng.

You are right, no one should mistreat you, but sometimes people do. And when they do you should protect yourself until such time you can trust them again (if ever).

I agree with that wholeheartedly.
Kuuipo

Monterey, CA

#41 Aug 6, 2013
cheluzal wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you. She is, and cannot see her culpability.
I will admit I was not always perfect but I was a good child! We had a fine relationship growing up, but she flamed dad my whole life. It took about age 30 for me to see dad wasn't that bad (and he was never trashing mom this whole time).
I am closer to dad now and we can talk fine, but I'll never get those years back. I'll never have the relationship I wanted, but I've made peace with it.
When she's mad at dad (daily) she pulls me in. She automatically tranfers her hatred of dad to me, which is grossly unfair.
I have created a life without strife, yelling, or cursing, and I refuse to be subjected to it by anyone else.
My parents just now got internet, so I email her daily. She is much nicer online than the phone, rofl!
It's a shame that she has been carrying this hate around all these years. She proves out the old saying, "Hate is like an acid that does more damage to the vessel in which it is stored than to the object on which it is poured."

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