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Toj

“Where is Everyone?”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#41 Oct 23, 2013
PEllen wrote:
<quoted text>Okay- Paul McCartney the guy from Wings. Same difference
(you have no idea how old your post has made me feel)
Born 1958. Spent many hours as a young girl discussing the Beatles, the rumours about the Beatles, Viet Nam, Oswald, MLK, and boys. Ouija boards, group (line) dancing, doing each others hair and make-up, and all sorts of things. I think I'm a bit younger than you, too. or shall I say less experienced.:)

Since: Jun 09

Saint Petersburg, FL

#42 Oct 23, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree she has every right to be pssed. I DON'T agree that he should "suck it up" and have a child anyway. THAT is my argument with you. I don't think he's a dooosh for deciding not to have a kid, and I DEFINITELY don't think he's being selfish. If anything, the WIFE is the selfish one, there's a chance her ultimatum could be "give me a kid or else."
This.

And, to what Sub said earlier about LW basically choosing between 2 bad things (losing his wife or having a kid) and that the kid can still have a happy home, etc. The LW can "act" like he wants the kid, but there will probably come a time where he will become resentful and it is highly likely the kid will sense it.

There is nothing worse than a kid feeling like their parent doesn't want them or want to be a part of their life. And a person can only live a lie for so long.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#43 Oct 23, 2013
Stina2 wrote:
<quoted text>
This.
And, to what Sub said earlier about LW basically choosing between 2 bad things (losing his wife or having a kid) and that the kid can still have a happy home, etc. The LW can "act" like he wants the kid, but there will probably come a time where he will become resentful and it is highly likely the kid will sense it.
There is nothing worse than a kid feeling like their parent doesn't want them or want to be a part of their life. And a person can only live a lie for so long.
I disagree with your premise. Most kids born in this world would not be born if their parents could decide when they got pregnant or not. Yet most children are loved.

And if he is to be resentful, he should resent himself for marrying a woman and promising to give her children. If he is a man, that is. It’s simply not fair to do the bait and switch.

I also think it is a huge leap to say, he will probably resent the child in the first place. You don’t know that. I think it is more probable that he will love the child … that is the case most every time someone has a child that they didn’t want or planned to have. Even assuming this happens … say the kid senses his resentment? Do you think the child would rather he never were born than to have one parent who loves him or her completely and another who he senses is resentful that he was born? You say there is nothing worse than this? I hope that was a figure of speech, because I can think of a lot of things worse than this.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#44 Oct 23, 2013
The dude says he'll be resentful if he has a kid. Maybe he'll transfer that onto the kid, maybe not, but the fact he'll be resentful is reason enough not to have a kid. I don't understand why you think he should have fatherhood foisted upon him just because he said five years ago he was up to the idea of kids. He did not bait and switch. He changed his mind.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#45 Oct 23, 2013
And again, this isn't about someone stepping up to the plate when they realize they're gonna be a parent, this is about someone deciding he doesn't want to be a parent in the first place. Those are two different things and you're trying to paint them with the same brush. And your premise is that he won't show resentment toward the kid. But there's a chance that he will. Shouldn't that outweigh the chance he might not?

He doesn't want to be a father. He'll resent it if he is. Whether he resents himself, his wife, his kid- doesn't matter. He doesn't want to be a father, he shouldn't. This isn't hard.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#46 Oct 23, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
The dude says he'll be resentful if he has a kid. Maybe he'll transfer that onto the kid, maybe not, but the fact he'll be resentful is reason enough not to have a kid. I don't understand why you think he should have fatherhood foisted upon him just because he said five years ago he was up to the idea of kids. He did not bait and switch. He changed his mind.
He doesn't say resentful. FAIL.

I think he should honor his word. I don't think it's right to date someone for how many years, with the understanding that you will have children with them, marry then with the understanding that you will have children with them, then wait 5 years and essentially tell them that so sad, too bad, I changed my mind ... you chose unwisely ... I won't have kids with you because I like golfing too much on the weekends. It's a crap thing to do.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#47 Oct 23, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
And again, this isn't about someone stepping up to the plate when they realize they're gonna be a parent, this is about someone deciding he doesn't want to be a parent in the first place. Those are two different things and you're trying to paint them with the same brush. And your premise is that he won't show resentment toward the kid.
Not really … both situations involve someone having a child that they didn’t want to have. Many guys get stuck being fathers to children they would not have had if they could have snapped their fingers, said I don’t want to have one right now, and make it so.
edogxxx wrote:
But there's a chance that he will. Shouldn't that outweigh the chance he might not?
As I have said a few time, that’s what he has to ask himself … will he be able to love the child. He knows himself better than you do or anyone else on here. If he knows he’s not the type to not love the child and resent it, then he should go through with it, and I haven’t heard a compelling argument in terms of why he should not from you or anyone.

The only argument you present when I point out that is that he doesn’t want to. Well, his wife wants to and he promised he would. So who should have to cave? He clearly should, because he promised and their whole marriage was entered into with this understanding.

Other than the fact that you feel his wants should trump her wants, despite his promise to fulfill her wants, there is no compelling reason why he should not if he knows he’s not the type to take it out on an innocent child and will love the child. <<<< That’s really it. It’s not my fault you and others used a knee jerk route and didn’t see this, but arguing with me about it for two days doesn’t really change the truth of this.:D
edogxxx wrote:
He doesn't want to be a father. He'll resent it if he is. Whether he resents himself, his wife, his kid- doesn't matter. He doesn't want to be a father, he shouldn't. This isn't hard.
Just cause you edog say he’ll resent the child and his wife, doesn’t make it true. Once again, as I have said many times, the thing he must consider is whether he will be able to love the child. That is something HE must ask and answer … you edog, can’t answer it for him and say resentment will necessarily be so because I edog say so!

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#48 Oct 23, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
He doesn't say resentful. FAIL.
He said "miserable and regretful."

So you FAIL.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#49 Oct 23, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
Just cause you edog say he’ll resent the child and his wife, doesn’t make it true. Once again, as I have said many times, the thing he must consider is whether he will be able to love the child. That is something HE must ask and answer … you edog, can’t answer it for him and say resentment will necessarily be so because I edog say so!
I, edog, never said such a thing. FAIL.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#50 Oct 23, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
there is no compelling reason why he should not if he knows he’s not the type to take it out on an innocent child and will love the child. <<<< That’s really it.
You don't think not wanting to isn't a compelling enough reason?

Great, give me five thousand dollars. It doesn't matter of you don't want to. Do it anyway.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#51 Oct 23, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't think not wanting to isn't a compelling enough reason?
Great, give me five thousand dollars. It doesn't matter of you don't want to. Do it anyway.
Did I promise you $5,000? Did you marry me with the understanding that I would give you $5,000. Did you wast 5+ years of marriage to me and however many years of dating because you thought I was agreeable to giving you $5,000. Is it possible by the time you find another person willing to give you $5,000 you will be too old to spend it?

Completely different scenarios.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#52 Oct 23, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
He said "miserable and regretful."
So you FAIL.
Neither of those words are "resentful."

You FAIL.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#53 Oct 23, 2013
edogxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
He said "miserable and regretful."
Between the two, who should rightfully be miserable and regretful, the guy who baited and switched or the woman who trusted his word, wasted 5 years of marriage and however many years of dating, because she trusted his word.

Have you ever been around a woman who wants to get prego and is having difficulty? It makes them a little nutty. It would be downright cruel to do that to a woman.
Pippa

Hancock, NY

#54 Oct 23, 2013
Stina2 wrote:
<quoted text>
This.
And, to what Sub said earlier about LW basically choosing between 2 bad things (losing his wife or having a kid) and that the kid can still have a happy home, etc. The LW can "act" like he wants the kid, but there will probably come a time where he will become resentful and it is highly likely the kid will sense it.
There is nothing worse than a kid feeling like their parent doesn't want them or want to be a part of their life. And a person can only live a lie for so long.
Just to add some personal perspective about what might happen if a person has a child even when they don't want one: My dad had custody of his 5 kids from his previous marriage when he married my mom. He was a shoe store manager, she was a waitress; neither was a great earner. She grew up in extreme poverty along with 10 siblings during the Great Depression. I'm sure she did not want that life for her children. A year after their marriage, she gave birth to my sister. A year later, she gave birth to me and had her tubes tied at the same time. I always noticed a difference in how she treated my sister and me. For example, I nearly drowned when I was 9 years old. It was a horrific experience. No hug from my mom when she found out. Mom just told me to take bath and go to bed when my sister and I arrived home. My sister got coddled with hot chocolate and held on Mom's lap. That's just an example of many such instances.

Around the age of 9 or 10, I told my mom that I simply loved my baby nephews and nieces and it would be really great to have a baby brother or sister. She told me she had a special fortune told when I was born and was told she would never have another baby. She then immediately proceeded to tell me she'd taken some drug that supposed to cause a miscarriage when she was pregnant with me. It didn't work and she was unhappy about that. She simply had not and did not want any more kids. I could understand she was worried about supporting another child but it hurt to hear that she'd actually tried to kill me before I was even born. I believe I had a twin sister who my mom gave up for adoption without telling anyone in the family. Her subsequent treatment of me for the remainder of her life pretty much underscored how much she resented having given birth to me. She pretty much carried on this unequal treatment toward my children as well. My sister's kids were given gifts all the time and mine rarely got anything. If I told my mom about some achievement of one of my kids or problem they were having, she'd never listen to the full account but change the subject to my sister's kids and how wonderful they were. I love my niece and nephews and was interested in what they were doing, but I'd hoped my mom would be interested in my kids as well. It's a good thing my kids had another set of grandparents who truly loved them.

Was I scarred? Yes. So I pretty much feel if a person doesn't want a child, he/she should not get pregnant in the first place. That means birth control or a surgical procedure. I cannot agree that abortion is the answer considering my own history and near death before birth. But I also don't think this is an issue for the government to regulate. It's a personal decision which the person will have to live with and be responsible for.

Since: Jun 09

Saint Petersburg, FL

#55 Oct 23, 2013
Pippa wrote:
<quoted text>
Just to add some personal perspective about what might happen if a person has a child even when they don't want one: My dad had custody of his 5 kids from his previous marriage when he married my mom. He was a shoe store manager, she was a waitress; neither was a great earner. She grew up in extreme poverty along with 10 siblings during the Great Depression. I'm sure she did not want that life for her children. A year after their marriage, she gave birth to my sister. A year later, she gave birth to me and had her tubes tied at the same time. I always noticed a difference in how she treated my sister and me. For example, I nearly drowned when I was 9 years old. It was a horrific experience. No hug from my mom when she found out. Mom just told me to take bath and go to bed when my sister and I arrived home. My sister got coddled with hot chocolate and held on Mom's lap. That's just an example of many such instances.
Around the age of 9 or 10, I told my mom that I simply loved my baby nephews and nieces and it would be really great to have a baby brother or sister. She told me she had a special fortune told when I was born and was told she would never have another baby. She then immediately proceeded to tell me she'd taken some drug that supposed to cause a miscarriage when she was pregnant with me. It didn't work and she was unhappy about that. She simply had not and did not want any more kids. I could understand she was worried about supporting another child but it hurt to hear that she'd actually tried to kill me before I was even born. I believe I had a twin sister who my mom gave up for adoption without telling anyone in the family. Her subsequent treatment of me for the remainder of her life pretty much underscored how much she resented having given birth to me. She pretty much carried on this unequal treatment toward my children as well. My sister's kids were given gifts all the time and mine rarely got anything. If I told my mom about some achievement of one of my kids or problem they were having, she'd never listen to the full account but change the subject to my sister's kids and how wonderful they were. I love my niece and nephews and was interested in what they were doing, but I'd hoped my mom would be interested in my kids as well. It's a good thing my kids had another set of grandparents who truly loved them.
Was I scarred? Yes. So I pretty much feel if a person doesn't want a child, he/she should not get pregnant in the first place. That means birth control or a surgical procedure. I cannot agree that abortion is the answer considering my own history and near death before birth. But I also don't think this is an issue for the government to regulate. It's a personal decision which the person will have to live with and be responsible for.
This is so sad and is exactly my point (and dog's). And I completely agree with your last paragraph. A child (and you) shouldn't ever have to have that experience.

Since: Jun 09

Saint Petersburg, FL

#56 Oct 23, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Between the two, who should rightfully be miserable and regretful, the guy who baited and switched or the woman who trusted his word, wasted 5 years of marriage and however many years of dating, because she trusted his word.
Have you ever been around a woman who wants to get prego and is having difficulty? It makes them a little nutty. It would be downright cruel to do that to a woman.
You keep saying bait and switch as though they guy had some evil plan to trick her into getting married. That is not the case at all. People change. He is being honest about it. And, quite frankly, if I were the wife, I wouldn't WANT a kid with a man that doesn't want one. If she knowingly does it, she'd better be prepared to do most of it alone.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#57 Oct 23, 2013
Stina2 wrote:
<quoted text>
This is so sad and is exactly my point (and dog's). And I completely agree with your last paragraph. A child (and you) shouldn't ever have to have that experience.
That is caused by a cruel and unbalanced person ... not because someone doesn't want a child. Hence, why I said the main question is whether he will love the child. If he can love the child, edogs point and your point is moot.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#58 Oct 23, 2013
Here's a woman who had a planned pregnancy and is regretting it:

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a3177470...

I guess if we are going to use a few anecdotal stories to determine the issue, no one should ever have kids, because if you do, you will probably be miserable like this lady if you do!

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#59 Oct 23, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
That is caused by a cruel and unbalanced person ... not because someone doesn't want a child.
I disagree.
Sublime1 wrote:
If he can love the child, edogs point and your point is moot.
Whether or not he can love the child is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

“reign in blood”

Since: May 09

Braidwood, IL

#60 Oct 23, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
I guess if we are going to use a few anecdotal stories to determine the issue, no one should ever have kids, because if you do, you will probably be miserable like this lady if you do!
Right, Sub, because of this guy, no one should ever have kids. <eye roll>

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