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“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

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#21 Jan 7, 2014
RedheadwGlasses wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't answer that for you. Let me put that up to my readers. You should have some sort of consensus in 4-6 weeks.
Why limit yourself? Get the grand slam with bacon & sausage, and a side of hash browns

Since: Aug 08

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#22 Jan 8, 2014
Blunt Advice wrote:
In fact the more non conforming kids are less likely to submit to peer pressure than the kids who feel they must fit in with the populars.
Interesting take. I suppose it depends on the age, but IME the kids who were non-conformist in high school were far more often than not socially awkward and/or seeking attention. My avoidance of such behaviors had nothing to do with wanting to fit in ... just didn't feel the need to dye my hair, have piercings, or change who I was.

Furthermore, thinking back to that time (hs) those who were non-conformist tended to associate with others who were non-conformist and to some extent it could be said that their need to be non-conformist was in part motivated by a need to fit in with those who they associated with. So I think your peer pressure analysis is way off base.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#23 Jan 8, 2014
All this only works as long as the comformists are in the majority, but if the non-conformists are in the majority, then the conformists are the social misfits.
I only say this because SUNY New Paltz is a school noted to have a majority of non conformists student population.

But conformists probably dont do there because they would not fit in or be popular.
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting take. I suppose it depends on the age, but IME the kids who were non-conformist in high school were far more often than not socially awkward and/or seeking attention. My avoidance of such behaviors had nothing to do with wanting to fit in ... just didn't feel the need to dye my hair, have piercings, or change who I was.
Furthermore, thinking back to that time (hs) those who were non-conformist tended to associate with others who were non-conformist and to some extent it could be said that their need to be non-conformist was in part motivated by a need to fit in with those who they associated with. So I think your peer pressure analysis is way off base.

Since: Aug 08

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#24 Jan 8, 2014
RACE wrote:
All this only works as long as the comformists are in the majority, but if the non-conformists are in the majority, then the conformists are the social misfits.
I only say this because SUNY New Paltz is a school noted to have a majority of non conformists student population.
But conformists probably dont do there because they would not fit in or be popular.
<quoted text>
My whole premise is that it may not be even based on popularity. While I can't for my job, even if I could, I wouldn't have all sorts of piercings or get a tat or be completely tatted up ... I'm one of the few folks I know who doesn't have any tats ... if I wanted to conform, I would have them. So it has nothing to do with my fear of not fitting in. I just don't want to.

I disagreed with her argument that because you don't dye your hair purple and have piercings that you don't do so because you wish to fit in ... even in high school where fitting in is more important. I also disagree that because you do have purple hair and piercings it is because you don't care about fitting in, because folks who have such style primarily hang out with those who have a similar style and that is the peer group who most influences them.

Also, many times there is no majority. My school had jocks, nerds, gang bangers, goths, preppy kids. There wasn't really a majority ... just different circles, many of which overlapped.

We went to that bar with the death metal bands ... everyone was dressed the same, except for me and my bro. If that's not conformity, I don't know what is.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#25 Jan 9, 2014
So, you dont dye your hair, not because you do or dont want to fit in, but just because you dont want to.

But a person who does dye their hair is doing so because they are being influenced by other people who do, not because they simply want purple hair?

How come your the only one who can make choices outside of any other influence? Like minded people always congregate together. You dont join the debate club to fit in, but because you enjoy it. Same with golf, woodwork, antique cars or listening to RUSH.

You went to a heavy metal bar by accident and then say how non conformist you are for not looking Goth? I dont think all the other people there were conformists because of their attire, I think that a group of people with similar interests came to the same place and their common interest influenced their attire, not each other.

So if you go in a biker bar (a real one) are you saying that all the folks in there are a bunch of conformists because they all dress similarly?
Dont you dress the part when you ride?

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#26 Jan 9, 2014
RACE wrote:
So, you dont dye your hair, not because you do or dont want to fit in, but just because you dont want to.
Yeah. Iíve never thought, gee I wish I could have purple hair, believe it or not.
RACE wrote:
But a person who does dye their hair is doing so because they are being influenced by other people who do, not because they simply want purple hair?
I think that is far more likely to be the case anytime you deviate so far from a natural state. They are influenced by other people who they associate with and want to fit in or are going through great lengths to call attention to themselves. Attention-who. res
RACE wrote:
How come your the only one who can make choices outside of any other influence?
I didnít say I was the only one.
RACE wrote:
Like minded people always congregate together. You dont join the debate club to fit in, but because you enjoy it. Same with golf, woodwork, antique cars or listening to RUSH.
I agree.
RACE wrote:
You went to a heavy metal bar by accident and then say how non conformist you are for not looking Goth? I dont think all the other people there were conformists because of their attire, I think that a group of people with similar interests came to the same place and their common interest influenced their attire, not each other.
I didnít say it made me a non-conformist.

I said I donít consider them non-conformist.
RACE wrote:
So if you go in a biker bar (a real one) are you saying that all the folks in there are a bunch of conformists because they all dress similarly?
Dont you dress the part when you ride?
I donít know what you mean by dressing the part? I wear jeans and a t-shirt, which is what I wear to a lot of places. Most folks are dressed the same, but itís not just when out riding Ö folks are dressed the same at Home Depot Ö jeans and a t shirt. I may wear a Harley shirt and others likely are too, but I wear Harley shirts lots of places and sometimes I donít wear a Harley shirt when Iím out riding.

Since: Aug 08

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#27 Jan 9, 2014
I think a non-conformist is cool, when it is not forced or faked ... when you are being who you are.

When you are trying to think of ways to be different to call attention to yourself or to fit in with a group who considers themselves as such, that seems tacky to me. In both situations one's behavior is heavily influenced by outside perceptions and in that sense you are controlled by others.

Probably not a lot of attorney's who ride a Harley to work most days, who have a shaved head, and a goatee, but I'm not doing those things to say hey look at me or to fit in with anyone!!!! I told you all awhile ago about the meeting at work with product development folks and after meeting with them a few times, the one guy said, you know what makes you even cooler ... you don't even look like an attorney. I'm not plastic ... I'm me and who I am. I do think some folks who go to great lengths to be different try a little too hard and are actually trying to do so ... instead of trying to be themselves. I think it's even more prevalent amongst teens, because there is more peer pressure and status matters more, even amongst sub groups. When and if you become a mature adult, you come to realize none of that stuff really matters and you are more apt to be who you truly are.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#28 Jan 9, 2014
Wanting purple hair is a gross deviation from a natural state? I disagree, I see it as an expression of individuality, not conformity. In my teens I had long hair and worn a fatigue jacket covered in patches that I sewed on myself. I am pretty sure I was the only kid in school with a fatigue jacket, but one of dozens with long hair.

And you did not call yourself a non conformist for your attire in the bar, you called everyone else a conformist, and since you distinguish yourself from them, you are a non conformist by being the reciprocal of them.

Since: Aug 08

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#29 Jan 9, 2014
RACE wrote:
Wanting purple hair is a gross deviation from a natural state? I disagree, I see it as an expression of individuality, not conformity. In my teens I had long hair and worn a fatigue jacket covered in patches that I sewed on myself. I am pretty sure I was the only kid in school with a fatigue jacket, but one of dozens with long hair.
Purple hair ... I see it as everybody look at meeeeee Ö Iím so different Ö everybody notice me.

More than a few guys had long girl hair <pulls race's pigtails> when I was in school. Not a big deal and even less of a big deal when you were in school.
RACE wrote:
And you did not call yourself a non conformist for your attire in the bar, you called everyone else a conformist, and since you distinguish yourself from them, you are a non conformist by being the reciprocal of them.
Thatís ridiculous logic. I did not call myself a non-conformist. Show me where I said I am a non-conformist, because they are a conformist.

I donít give a eff if I am a conformist or not. Life has afforded me the opportunity and the security and the confidence to be exactly who I want to be Ö myself.

“I Am Mine”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#30 Jan 9, 2014
You boys can continue your discussion, but I must interject. Purple hair is not a gross deviation from the natural state? People become bald naturally. People can have long hair naturally. People do not get purple hair naturally and it is not even close to any natural hair color. It IS a gross deviation.

Since: Aug 08

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#31 Jan 9, 2014
Mister Tonka wrote:
You boys can continue your discussion, but I must interject. Purple hair is not a gross deviation from the natural state? People become bald naturally. People can have long hair naturally. People do not get purple hair naturally and it is not even close to any natural hair color. It IS a gross deviation.
Yup.

There's no need to continue the discussion. I look at folks who try that hard to be different as attention who.res. One person want's purple hair another guy demands to dress as a woman all time when out at a fancy restaurant (as if he will melt like the wicked witch if he were to wear pair of dress pants and a nice shirt for 2 hours).

They both suffer from the same thing: attentionwhoreitis. Look at meEEEEEEE. I'm different and special. I just laugh. It only shows an underlying insecurity. It's okay to be different, but when you are primarily motivated by calling attention to yourself, you are a tool and as non-conformist as you like to think you are, you really aren't .. you are controlled by others just as much as those who dress or act a certain way because they want to fit in. Both are fake and cheesy.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#32 Jan 9, 2014
Now who is being ridiculous?
being different is by definition calling attention to yourself.
(remember sesame street... one of these things is not like the other...)

You cant be different, if you dont call attention to yourself and your cant call attention to yourself if your not different!

a black spot is only noticeable on a white sheet.
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup.
It's okay to be different, but when you are primarily motivated by calling attention to yourself, you are a tool and as non-conformist as you like to think you are, you really aren't .. you are controlled by others just as much as those who dress or act a certain way because they want to fit in. Both are fake and cheesy.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#33 Jan 9, 2014
It is a deviation, gross is relative.

by your definition, shaving your head is a gross deviation because it is not a "Natural" baldness, but rather a manufactured or artificial baldness, just as purple is not a "Natural" color.

Purple hair is not a gross deviation
shaving your head and putting a tattoo of an eyeball there is a gross deviation. But I am sure you will find someone to dispute that.
Mister Tonka wrote:
You boys can continue your discussion, but I must interject. Purple hair is not a gross deviation from the natural state? People become bald naturally. People can have long hair naturally. People do not get purple hair naturally and it is not even close to any natural hair color. It IS a gross deviation.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#34 Jan 9, 2014
RACE wrote:
Now who is being ridiculous?
being different is by definition calling attention to yourself.
(remember sesame street... one of these things is not like the other...)
You cant be different, if you dont call attention to yourself and your cant call attention to yourself if your not different!
a black spot is only noticeable on a white sheet.
<quoted text>
It is the motivation that matters. There is nothing wrong with being different and calling attention to yourself. You are a fake and a phony if you are being different only because you want to call attention to yourself. Be yourself and don't worry about what others think. That I respect, different or not.

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

Since: Feb 09

Neda, stay with me!

#35 Jan 9, 2014
Exactly,
Just because you dye your hair purple does not mean your conforming to the non-comformist group, it could just mean your mom would not let you dye it half purple and half green.
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
It is the motivation that matters. There is nothing wrong with being different and calling attention to yourself. You are a fake and a phony if you are being different only because you want to call attention to yourself. Be yourself and don't worry about what others think. That I respect, different or not.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#36 Jan 9, 2014
RACE wrote:
Exactly,
Just because you dye your hair purple does not mean your conforming to the non-comformist group, it could just mean your mom would not let you dye it half purple and half green.
<quoted text>
In the context of teens, it likely (not always) means you are conforming to your circle of friends who are also "different" and you want to fit in with them or you have a need for attention, in the hey everybody look at me I'm special and different.

When someone is an adult and I mean a mature adult ... which is likely not the case in their late teens or early 20s and they choose to be different, it's more likely due to who they are. Some people are artsy and there is nothing wrong with embracing that (I actually like that ... I like artsy cities like Boulder and Madison which are more counter-culture oriented)... indeed so long as you aren't hurting anyone, you should embrace who you are.

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