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Since: Jan 14

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#71906 Apr 18, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>

Yes, but who's to say that any of these lofty pursuits are actually "higher," better, or more noble than the simple pursuit of pleasure?
You must not try to overly intellectualize such subjective states which are better left to experiencing them which constitutes the proof of the pudding.

On other hand, take a causal look at the well-known media-hyped pleasure-seekers everywhere who live on sensual excesses and deep within you'll discover they find their lives hollow and a one big addictive round of sense pleasures. Most of them come to ruin in some way or the other sooner or later or sink to the level of the degraded human types. They are not worthy role models and exert a negative influence on us.

The thumb rule is - detachment, discipline, focus, regulation of one's personal resources and a genuine sense of reverence for the truly great human types who've risen above their baser instincts and who point out the way to the practice/wisdom of the deeper laws of connectedness and to genuine peace/genuine happiness that no external adversity can take away from us.

An ounce of practice is worth more than encyclopedias of precept.

Since: Jan 14

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#71907 Apr 18, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>

What if I were to change the goal to happiness (rather than pleasure)?
The opposite of happiness is sorrow.

So, how do you get out of this vicious cycle?

There's a constant tussle between these two extremes in ordinary life with heredity, environmental influences, diet and education playing a determining role in this clash for supremacy between happiness and sorrow that tears the person apart in the ensuing fight.

Human beings are slaves of the senses and big egoists and so it's next to impossible for the average person to shake off his attachment to sensual excesses and to egoism.

If the happiness, or rather the bliss, that you aspire for is of the unshakeable kind that neither good circumstances nor bad happenings can shake then it is of the right kind but to attain to that superior state of happiness (bliss) would need a Herculean discipline based on sense control, clearing out of the unregenerate impulses embedded deep in the subconscious, cultivation of detachment and flowing with the higher laws of being and becoming.

Equanimity is the key word.

Even a small sincere step taken along this path should yield some positive results over time....

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#71908 Apr 18, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>

On other hand, take a causal look at the well-known media-hyped pleasure-seekers everywhere who live on sensual excesses and deep within you'll discover they find their lives hollow and a one big addictive round of sense pleasures. Most of them come to ruin in some way or the other sooner or later or sink to the level of the degraded human types. They are not worthy role models and exert a negative influence on us.
Wouldnt you conceed that one can pursue pleasure or happiness without sinking to the level of a degraded human type? The example you cite strikes me as extreme.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71909 Apr 18, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>

If the happiness, or rather the bliss, that you aspire for is of the unshakeable kind that neither good circumstances nor bad happenings can shake then it is of the right kind but to attain to that superior state of happiness (bliss) would need a Herculean discipline based on sense control, clearing out of the unregenerate impulses embedded deep in the subconscious, cultivation of detachment and flowing with the higher laws of being and becoming.
Equanimity is the key word.
Even a small sincere step taken along this path should yield some positive results over time....
Couldnt one argue that equanimity IS happiness?

By the way, you do a decent job parroting the Bhudda. Three stars to you - but please dont let it feed your ego.

Since: Jan 14

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#71910 Apr 18, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>

Is this a goal of life that you could accept?

As it clearly would mean different things to each of us.
Since we all come from one source, are made up of the same materials and are governed by the same set of natural laws, thus the goal of each person's life also ought to be the same which is to know the highest reality not only in theory but more importantly as a practical experience with however personality type and environmental influences and sincerity carving out different paths leading to same summit.

Since: Jan 14

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#71911 Apr 18, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>

Is it possible that on your deathbed, you think to yourself, "I only wish I had more fun in life and perhaps more happiness?"
True happiness whose concomitant is true peace is the cherished aim of each and every human being despite our constant forgetfulness of this fundamental longing.

The thoughts on the death bed should be the highest possible thoughts centered on peace, good will, harmony, love, fearlessness, compassion and humility that one can muster at that moment since the indwelling consciousness-force gets permeated with one's dying state of consciousness and these final thoughts determine the immediate condition of the dying person and give a push to his consciousness as it lifts out of the body....

Since: Jan 14

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#71912 Apr 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Again, another reason not to call others idiots.

You get it on the cognitive level. Now we must work on the behavioral level

Cheer up - this is still cheaper than therapy
Hello Papa,

Never forget for a minute that I am your beloved child whose thoughts of love, good will and support are always with you.

Bye.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#71913 Apr 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Couldn't one argue that equanimity IS happiness?
Happiness is a deformation of the Bliss Consciousness.

When selfish seeking is thwarted, the ego, to which the surface personality based on sensual excitement is tied, gets hurt and this results in a contraction of sensual happiness which we call sorrow or pain or suffering.

To rise above this inferior condition of happiness and its opposite which is sorrow is equanimity which calls for an exacting inner practice and would, when reasonably successful, yield the beginning of the Bliss condition.

The True Bliss is way above the ordinary states of consciousness.

Since: Jan 14

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#71914 Apr 18, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>

I spoke in jest my serious friend.
I can't make out when you're joking or when you're serious.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71915 Apr 18, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
Happiness is a deformation of the Bliss Consciousness.
When selfish seeking is thwarted, the ego, to which the surface personality based on sensual excitement is tied, gets hurt and this results in a contraction of sensual happiness which we call sorrow or pain or suffering.
To rise above this inferior condition of happiness and its opposite which is sorrow is equanimity which calls for an exacting inner practice and would, when reasonably successful, yield the beginning of the Bliss condition.
The True Bliss is way above the ordinary states of consciousness.
And thats where the way of the Bhudda departs from my spiritual path, my friend.

I pursue joy, not detachment. I dont dwell on joy all the time, of course, but it is a goal.

And not to say that detachment doesnt have its virtues at times (we can all stand to react less to our emotions), but its not my final goal.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71916 Apr 18, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
Since we all come from one source, are made up of the same materials and are governed by the same set of natural laws, thus the goal of each person's life also ought to be the same which is to know the highest reality not only in theory but more importantly as a practical experience with however personality type and environmental influences and sincerity carving out different paths leading to same summit.
Do you see how suggesting "oughts" could be seen by some as mildly imperialistic? One would think that a more balanced approach might factor in a degree of humility as well, i.e. that perhaps nobody has all the answers...

Since: Jan 14

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#71917 Apr 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Wouldn't you concede that one can pursue pleasure or happiness without sinking to the level of a degraded human type? The example you cite strikes me as extreme.
Pleasure seeking, which is invariably based on sensual gratification, selfishness, greed, insecurity and egoism, usually leads to contraction of the finer sensibilities of personality and in most cases it leads to a perversity of purpose/conscience and in such a case the mental addiction to constant sense titillation will go to great lengths to seek out pleasure, to justify one's compulsive seeking, to get a kick and when thwarted sinks into depression.

This is the degraded human condition.

Take joy in the simple happenings in life like kindness, respect for elders, proper thinking, eating sensibly, avoiding incest, turning away from bigotry, caring for animals/plants, maintaining charitable thoughts towards all, cultivating happy family relationships and disciplining the senses/ego and more often than not things work out well for the person and for his family and gives their consciousness an evolutionary push in the right direction.

Since: Jan 14

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#71918 Apr 18, 2014
BUDDHA

Buddha did not aim at perfection of the being via transformational processes though he was under the impression that his teachings were of the highest order nor did he aim for perfection of external nature via transformational processes and so his highest teachings and the accompanying practices he gave out were based on a simple standing back from the turmoil of the surface consciousness.

Well, Buddha's teachings are one stage on the Path but there are numerous higher stages of perfection that lead to the ultimate perfection of mind, emotions, body and subconscious with their attendant superior manifestations.

Since: Jan 14

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#71919 Apr 18, 2014
WHAT IS THE SUPREME DETACHMENT?

THE SUPREME DETACHMENT is a condition of pure awareness and superlative power and it means living in a such a superior state of consciousness in which neither praise nor insult, nor poison nor fire, nor accident nor disease, nor happiness nor suffering, nor religion nor irreligion, nor prophet nor criminal, nor G-d nor demon, nor heaven nor hell, nor ritual nor dogma, nor birth nor rebirth, nor immortality nor mortality can touch while all the time the centralized elevated consciousness is fully aware of all the external happenings which to its lofty poise are like evanescent ripples on the far end of the spectrum which can be annulled or transformed at will.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71920 Apr 18, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
WHAT IS THE SUPREME DETACHMENT?
THE SUPREME DETACHMENT is a condition of pure awareness and superlative power and it means living in a such a superior state of consciousness in which neither praise nor insult, nor poison nor fire, nor accident nor disease, nor happiness nor suffering, nor religion nor irreligion, nor prophet nor criminal, nor G-d nor demon, nor heaven nor hell, nor ritual nor dogma, nor birth nor rebirth, nor immortality nor mortality can touch while all the time the centralized elevated consciousness is fully aware of all the external happenings which to its lofty poise are like evanescent ripples on the far end of the spectrum which can be annulled or transformed at will.
The problem with this is that it is an ideal. Other than a select few people, no one else has really attained this.

What makes life interesting and fun is its challenges - including its physical, emotional, and situational challenges. I have no regrets living a tarnished life.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#71921 Apr 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Other than a select few people, no one else has really attained this.
Yes, this supreme state of human existence that corresponds to the supramental plane or to the still higher state of the bliss consciousness is rarest of the rare states with maybe just 5 or 6 highly advanced yogis in the whole of human history like Patanjali, Kapila and a few others having attained to it.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#71922 Apr 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

What makes life interesting and fun is its challenges - including its physical, emotional, and situational challenges.

I have no regrets living a tarnished life.
Yes, these are the thoughts and aims of people living in the ordinary consciousness who lack the higher capacity.

Since: Jan 14

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#71923 Apr 18, 2014
I can't think of any other human being other than the greatest of all yogis like Patanjali, Kapila and Sukhadev who've attained to the rarest of the rare states of the supreme detachment via the supramental plane or the still higher bliss plane. Sri Aurobindo attempted the supramental transformation but quit half way along the path.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#71924 Apr 18, 2014
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>You and GWC
Hugh--- O, I like peanut butter

Eric----You and GWC

HughBe---- Declare your meaning of GWC
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#71925 Apr 18, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Which one of us are you more jealous of?
Joel or me?
I say Joel.
And don't think that doesn't hurt.
HughBe---1. I have noted with interest the "warmth" between you and Joel and indeed it does seem to be "the beginning of something serious"
2. I can see Frijoles getting excited at the idea of the threesome.
3. You never told me the name of your "wife", why?

Former----Which one of us are you more jealous of? Joel or me? I say Joel.

And don't think that doesn't hurt.

HughBe---- Jealousy is not involved what is is happiness as I am happy for both of you.

Now that you know reality it is my hope that the hurt disappears.

Much love to you my fellow man and Joel's fellow.

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