Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72043 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71601 Apr 14, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem a little loose on the whole belief in god thing though (and please don't say again how practice is more important - I get it). The whole thing is built on an underlying belief. A faith.(The belief in something WITHOUT evidence.)
Moses. The Commandments etc. These were the words of god - no? If not, then your whole belief system could just as easily be built on what a bunch of wise old men wrote down thousand of years ago. And what really makes you think these guys were any wiser and smarter than you.
Maybe one of them, on a whim, jotted down once that you should all lop of your babies' foreskin and this will help to make him a man.
And so for thousands of years, you've blindly been perpetuating the "tradition?!"
Either two choices: these were the actual words of god or you have to entertain the very real possibility that the scenario the line above is true.
And then what is the importance of Scripture?
Tradition is important. In Judaism we have customs and we have law. Both are considered tradition. Like I said, there are core components which have function, irrespective on their sources. No where in the law does it say one has to know Hebrew to be a Jew, but without Hebrew one can not fully engage in all the activities that make Judaism Judaism. Brit is an initiation ceremony. Thats what makes the people. How truthful, using Western standards, that the bible may be is irrelevant. Its done. It has a function.(and as far I as know it has benign consequences) You should watch Fiddler in the Roof.

And yes, Judaism is based on practice. And peoplehood. The only real canon is that God is one. Thats the core belief. The rest is commentary.

Different Jewish movements have different viewpoints about the authenticity of the Torah ranging from literal word of god to ...mans recollection or interpretation of what man thought God was saying.....But yet all the main movements believe in following (some semblance of) the tradition, regardless.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71602 Apr 14, 2014
Eric wrote:
Happy Passover
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =rP4nNBVOA-gXX
Hey!

Happy tax day!

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71603 Apr 14, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting article with different points of view - here's just one:
http://www.momentmag.com/can-there-be-judaism...
Joe Lieberman
There can be Jews who are good people without belief in God, but ultimately Judaism cannot continue to exist without belief in God because the Jewish historical narrative depends on it. I was raised in a traditional setting, to believe that we’re judged—and this comes from the prophetic writings—by our behavior, not whether we observe this or that ritual, though we should observe those rituals. Judaism without God, in my opinion, will not remain Judaism and will ultimately vanish. My somewhat circular logic is that I accept the truth of the promise that God made to our forefathers and foremothers: that the Jewish people will be eternal. But I also believe that the promise was conditioned on a continuing belief in God.
Senator Joe Lieberman is an Independent senator from Connecticut and author of a new book on the Sabbath, The Gift of Rest.
I agree with him.

I have nothing against the Humanist movement of Judaism (Judaism without God). I consider the people Jews (if they were born Jewish) and recognize they are searching for something like the rest of us. However, I doubt their movement will survive past each individual - because there is no mechanism to promote continuity. Because I agree with Lieberman's observation - without God the system makes no sense.

That all said, there are many ways to define God within the tradition.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71604 Apr 14, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
And so for thousands of years, you've blindly been perpetuating the "tradition?!"
The tradition is the way Jews connect to God. Its a spiritual practice. Its not random - it provides benefits. The sense of connection.
Eric

Des Plaines, IL

#71605 Apr 14, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey!
Happy tax day!
yuck
former res

Cheshire, CT

#71606 Apr 14, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I did read your post on the origins. I get it. But you need to understand that people make a similar argument about kosher - that it was for health reasons. Maybe. Maybe not,. But whats relevant is the role of either practices (brit and koher) on the system now (now as defined as the last 2000 years). It is about membership, not health. In other words, anthropologists can lecture us, but they miss the whole point - the function of the institution internally.
I have problems with my tonsils as an adult as well as a child. One of them is much larger than the others. So I am not swayed by your metaphor.
Darby describes these theories as "conflicting", and states that "the only point of agreement among proponents of the various theories is that promoting good health had nothing to do with it."[2]
former res

Cheshire, CT

#71607 Apr 14, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, the guy hated Jews, but managed to kill 2 Christians (and 1 Jew).
Dove is one of the few (or perhaps the only) mass produced American brands of chocolate that I like.
We already colored our egg (turns out egg coloring is also a sephardic Jewish custom)
Shalom
former res

Cheshire, CT

#71608 Apr 14, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I did read your post on the origins. I get it. But you need to understand that people make a similar argument about kosher - that it was for health reasons. Maybe. Maybe not,. But whats relevant is the role of either practices (brit and koher) on the system now (now as defined as the last 2000 years). It is about membership, not health. In other words, anthropologists can lecture us, but they miss the whole point - the function of the institution internally.
I have problems with my tonsils as an adult as well as a child. One of them is much larger than the others. So I am not swayed by your metaphor.
You may be a special case:

Effectiveness[edit]

The procedure is often not effective or only modestly effective, and does not get rid of sore throats altogether.[19][20] In children there is only a short-term benefit; without tonsillectomy a child who meets these strict criteria will probably have 6 throat infections in the next two years while one who has surgery will probably have 3 throat infections. After two years there is little difference in the rate of infection.[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonsillectomy#Ef...

My congenital weakness has been ear infection in times of stress. Painful with side of head swollen out. Need Percocet and antibiotic pill and ear drops. Fever etc. Not for several years so maybe just growing pains of young adulthood.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#71609 Apr 14, 2014
MYSTICAL MODEL life & OF APPEARANCE OF LIFE FORMS SCORES OVER SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATIONS

The number of sentient principles that inhere in the material force field that on being subjected to appropriate stimuli seek emergence or materialization.

Each sentient principle with its innate information materializes as a specific species.

Interestingly, the sentient principles form a gradation as seen in the graded morphological features/graded functional capacities of the various species that they (sentient principles) gave rise to over the geological ages by an act of self-emergence.

The entire series of sentient species is arranged as a beautiful gradation that begins with a monocellular form and ends in the magnificence of the human species.

Genetic variation occurs within a species as the members of a species (that're based on the information content of a corresponding underlying sentient principle) seek to adapt themselves to different environments - thus dogs comes in various sizes and shapes but every kind of dog despite small differences in anatomy reside in the same family - the dog family.

Once the innate information content of a sentient principle (that gives rise to a particular species) is exhausted, the particular species reaches its maximum potential and can progress no further.

This mystical approach that easily explains the origin of sentience and the appearance of sentient forms obviates the falsehood of materialistic science that seeks to explain the origin of life from lifeless matter (as if such a thing is ever possible!) and the illogical explanation of the appearance of the species coming about through common descent from a self-replicating monocellular organism involving micro-changes (natural selection/genetic mutations) that somehow over large stretches of time gave rise to the gradation of species. LOL.

Not surprisingly, using the absurd crass materialistic scientific model, life cannot be created from scratch nor have any transitional forms been discovered nor can a corpse be brought back to life.

Materialistic science rises and falls with a huge thud by its own paradoxes and will vanish after a time when people fully see through its lies, contradictions and falsehoods.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#71610 Apr 14, 2014
Typo

MYSTICAL MODEL OF LIFE & OF APPEARANCE OF LIFE FORMS SCORES OVER SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATIONS

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#71611 Apr 14, 2014
Sentience originates only from sentience.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#71612 Apr 14, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Tradition is important. In Judaism we have customs and we have law. Both are considered tradition. Like I said, there are core components which have function, irrespective on their sources. No where in the law does it say one has to know Hebrew to be a Jew, but without Hebrew one can not fully engage in all the activities that make Judaism Judaism. Brit is an initiation ceremony. Thats what makes the people. How truthful, using Western standards, that the bible may be is irrelevant. Its done. It has a function.(and as far I as know it has benign consequences) You should watch Fiddler in the Roof.
And yes, Judaism is based on practice. And peoplehood. The only real canon is that God is one. Thats the core belief. The rest is commentary.
Different Jewish movements have different viewpoints about the authenticity of the Torah ranging from literal word of god to ...mans recollection or interpretation of what man thought God was saying.....But yet all the main movements believe in following (some semblance of) the tradition, regardless.
So, if I'm hearing you...

WHY we do it isn't important. "....irrespective on their sources.."

We don't have to believe in anything and we don't know who wrote all this down or why.

As in the Army "There's no reason for it, it's policy."

It's a habit, a tradition. We do it this way because we've always done it this way.

What does "God is one" mean to you?

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#71613 Apr 14, 2014
DEATH-KNELL OF CRASS MATERIALISTIC SCIENCE

Not surprisingly, using the absurd crass materialistic scientific model, life cannot be created from scratch nor have any transitional forms been discovered nor can a corpse be brought back to life.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#71614 Apr 14, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with him.
I have nothing against the Humanist movement of Judaism (Judaism without God). I consider the people Jews (if they were born Jewish) and recognize they are searching for something like the rest of us. However, I doubt their movement will survive past each individual - because there is no mechanism to promote continuity. Because I agree with Lieberman's observation - without God the system makes no sense.
That all said, there are many ways to define God within the tradition.
I didn't think you would agree with Joe. You haven't really in the past.

In the past you've said Jews don't have to believe in god. And I don't recall you qualifying it with the idea that their movement wouldn't survive. You've said you don't necessarily believe in god.

But of course if you call appreciating the beauty and wonder of a tree, believing in god, then I can also re-define being King of the World as being me being in charge of my life!

I do in fact agree with Joe and his position has been mine - not yours. Without the underlying belief, none of the rest of it makes any sense. Practice follows belief.

It's why any organization has some sort of a "mission statement." A set of values, aspirations, goals. Their actions and efforts come spring forth from this.

With religious believers, this is their statement of faith, their scripture etc. Makes sense to me.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#71615 Apr 14, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
Sentience originates only from sentience.
Circular logic.

The earliest sentience(s) has to come from something else.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#71616 Apr 14, 2014
UNCLE FORMER must take care as his posts are once again radiating an unbalanced vibe that has a kind of a sucking pull on the energy fields of others.

This is the second time in a week that I have noticed this unbalanced vibe radiating from his posts.

I wish him very well and hope the unbalanced vibes lifts out of his consciousness-force field at the earliest.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#71618 Apr 14, 2014
PSI RESEARCHERS AND JOEL

I am in personal touch with a few leading psi researchers from the UK, India and the US and have discussed online many interesting ideas with them such as:

1) Meditation

2) Trance

3) Samadhi (stasis)

4) Altered states of consciousness

5) Sentient energy

6) Brain as a transmitting instrument of the waves of sentient energy infusing it from external nature

7) Science of mantra

8) Phenomenon of death

9) OBE

10) NDE

11) Afterlife

12) Reincarnation

13) Techniques to revive past life memories

and other very interesting subjects.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71619 Apr 14, 2014
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
yuck
cant complain. Did my taxes weeks ago.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71620 Apr 14, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
You may be a special case:
Effectiveness[edit]
The procedure is often not effective or only modestly effective, and does not get rid of sore throats altogether.[19][20] In children there is only a short-term benefit; without tonsillectomy a child who meets these strict criteria will probably have 6 throat infections in the next two years while one who has surgery will probably have 3 throat infections. After two years there is little difference in the rate of infection.[21]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonsillectomy#Ef...
My congenital weakness has been ear infection in times of stress. Painful with side of head swollen out. Need Percocet and antibiotic pill and ear drops. Fever etc. Not for several years so maybe just growing pains of young adulthood.
Thing is, there is a lot of evidence that antibiotics dont work. I.E. that the infection may get better regardless.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#71621 Apr 14, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
So, if I'm hearing you...
WHY we do it isn't important. "....irrespective on their sources.."
We don't have to believe in anything and we don't know who wrote all this down or why.
As in the Army "There's no reason for it, it's policy."
It's a habit, a tradition. We do it this way because we've always done it this way.
What does "God is one" mean to you?
we do it because it provides a method to connect to God.

"One" - there is nothing(else) but God, and we are part of the interdependent whole.

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