Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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Since: Jan 14

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#69989 Mar 24, 2014
3 STAGES

Every advanced mystic teaches the following 3 stages:

1) DUALISM (meant for the ignorant people, the commoners)- Dualism preaches an eternal divide between some G-d and his creation which he supposedly created from nothing but over which he somehow rules over despite the absence of a causal link.

2) QUALIFIED NONDUALISM (meant for a higher audience having better intellectual faculties)- Qualified nondualism seeks to establish a tenuous causal link among the diversity of entities we see in nature.

3) NONDUALISM (meant for the intellectual elite)- Nondualism throws away the lower 2 stages and boldly announces that in the essence there's no divide between the cause and its effect with the effect simply being viewed as the cause itself in manifestation.

NOTE: Among the Semites, only Jesus taught all these 3 essential stages of mysticism as listed above, while Abraham, Moses, and Muhammad remained stuck on the lowest stage which is dualism. Dualism is a flawed model since it seeks to separate the cause from its effects and thus as a natural consequence it leads to the erroneous idea of creation ex nihilo, tribalism and fanaticism.

Since: Jan 14

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#69990 Mar 24, 2014
Going to play squash and then for a snack and to chill for a while in the Sea Lounge in the Taj. Bye.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#69991 Mar 24, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
TRADITIONAL JUDAISM
Traditional Judaism of the Torah is flawed since it is based on the error of dualism that seeks to separate cause from effect as if such a thing is ever possible.
The idea of a creator G-d is patently false since this creature is uncausally separate from his creation that he supposedly manufactured from nothing and he which he supposedly rules like a tyrant favoring those who he calls his people and abusing those who worship other gods (his rivals).
In the highest state of cosmic existence, the effect is nothing else but the cause in manifestation.
Nondualism, in which there's no G-d or universe in separation from each other, is at the root of the whole of cosmic existence
Who are you to label what in Judaism is considered "traditional"? The theological roots of Hasidism go back at least 2000 years. Sounds pretty traditional to me.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#69992 Mar 24, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The book Zealot... Goes into greater detail on this topic. Short answer: No.
I admit I only scanned the article I posted, but one of the insights I gleaned from it was the argument that Jesus purposely promoted himself as a human savior from bad things, and king (consistent with the literal translation of the Hebrew term mossiach - "one who saves") in an effort to increase his influence and powerbase. And ultimately he was a victim of his own success, when he was no longer able to manage his reputation in scale, posthumously.

Since: Aug 13

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#69993 Mar 24, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Who are you to label what in Judaism is considered "traditional"? The theological roots of Hasidism go back at least 2000 years. Sounds pretty traditional to me.
Seems to me he missed out on Free Will

Since: Aug 13

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#69994 Mar 24, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I admit I only scanned the article I posted, but one of the insights I gleaned from it was the argument that Jesus purposely promoted himself as a human savior from bad things, and king (consistent with the literal translation of the Hebrew term mossiach - "one who saves") in an effort to increase his influence and powerbase. And ultimately he was a victim of his own success, when he was no longer able to manage his reputation in scale, posthumously.
Moshiach means 'anointed one' as in Kings or priests.

When Moshiach was translated into the Greek..Moshiach became Christos or Messiah.

Christos is the basis for Christianity and has no similar basis in Judaism.

Since: Aug 11

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#69995 Mar 24, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I admit I only scanned the article I posted, but one of the insights I gleaned from it was the argument that Jesus purposely promoted himself as a human savior from bad things, and king (consistent with the literal translation of the Hebrew term mossiach - "one who saves") in an effort to increase his influence and powerbase. And ultimately he was a victim of his own success, when he was no longer able to manage his reputation in scale, posthumously.
The historical Jesus (assuming someone who fits his description really existed) is just one of many self-proclaimed "mossiachs". They were a dime a dozen during his time period. Most of them were rebels, fighting for liberation from Roman occupation, and most of them ended up with the same fate (crucified by the Romans for sedition). Many of the "mossiachs" also made enemies of the Jewish priestly class who they saw as corrupt. This made Jesus a man with many enemies and few allies other than the oppressed peasants he preached to. Unfortunately, they wielded little power. And, as is often the case, the legend is bigger than the man.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#69996 Mar 24, 2014
Adam 36 wrote:
<quoted text>
Moshiach means 'anointed one' as in Kings or priests.
When Moshiach was translated into the Greek..Moshiach became Christos or Messiah.
Christos is the basis for Christianity and has no similar basis in Judaism.
rabbee: if you can't get it right, then it is not worth getting at all. Mosheeach, eevreet derivative from the word Moshe, means Savor and Redeemer. now the words Savior or Redeemer, can be translated into any known language but not both. in order to find out, if someone has been jerking your leg. example latin, would be the root words salve or redemptio. but they do not have a word, that represents both Savior and Redeemer.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#69997 Mar 24, 2014
Adam 36 wrote:
<quoted text>
Moshiach means 'anointed one' as in Kings or priests.
When Moshiach was translated into the Greek..Moshiach became Christos or Messiah.
Christos is the basis for Christianity and has no similar basis in Judaism.
correct. Wasnt quite awake this morning. Y'shea means savior - not mshiach.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#69998 Mar 24, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The historical Jesus (assuming someone who fits his description really existed) is just one of many self-proclaimed "mossiachs". They were a dime a dozen during his time period. Most of them were rebels, fighting for liberation from Roman occupation, and most of them ended up with the same fate (crucified by the Romans for sedition). Many of the "mossiachs" also made enemies of the Jewish priestly class who they saw as corrupt. This made Jesus a man with many enemies and few allies other than the oppressed peasants he preached to. Unfortunately, they wielded little power. And, as is often the case, the legend is bigger than the man.
Speaking of spirituality - thought this artilce was more thought provoking - probably should of posted it instead

The pseudo-science of Alcoholics Anonymous: There’s a better way to treat addiction

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pseudo_sc...

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#69999 Mar 24, 2014
and all the know saviors in scripture, were selected and appointed by G-D Only. and were not selected and appointed by alleged as men. so saviors appointed by men, are not the Saviors appointed by G-D. from Noach, Avraham, Moshe, to Adam are all appointed by G-D directly. and Moshe is only about, half way through TheTorah here in IT again. and half way through TheTorah, is approximately, 3409.000000000 man years.

Since: Aug 13

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#70000 Mar 24, 2014
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: if you can't get it right, then it is not worth getting at all. Mosheeach, eevreet derivative from the word Moshe, means Savor and Redeemer. now the words Savior or Redeemer, can be translated into any known language but not both. in order to find out, if someone has been jerking your leg. example latin, would be the root words salve or redemptio. but they do not have a word, that represents both Savior and Redeemer.
Sorry you are incorrect. Moshiach in Hebrew means anointed one, a human leader.

The Jewish idea of mashiach is a great human leader like King David, not a savior
http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

Since: Aug 13

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#70001 Mar 24, 2014
yehoshooah adam wrote:
and all the know saviors in scripture, were selected and appointed by G-D Only. and were not selected and appointed by alleged as men. so saviors appointed by men, are not the Saviors appointed by G-D. from Noach, Avraham, Moshe, to Adam are all appointed by G-D directly. and Moshe is only about, half way through TheTorah here in IT again. and half way through TheTorah, is approximately, 3409.000000000 man years.
You are confusing savior and anointed one. According to the Hebrew bible there is only one savior.

Put not your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation.
Psalm 146:3

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour.
Isaiah Chapter 43:11

Since: Aug 11

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#70002 Mar 24, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Speaking of spirituality - thought this artilce was more thought provoking - probably should of posted it instead
The pseudo-science of Alcoholics Anonymous: There’s a better way to treat addiction
http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pseudo_sc...
Yea, I've read similar articles regarding AA. Skeptics have been after them for years.

AA has also been criticized for being a "faith-based" organization (i.e. One of the steps requires belief in a higher power). Not a problem for a private organization, per se, but when a court orders someone to attend a meeting where they are pushing a "higher power", that becomes a problem and a clear violation of the first amendment. From what I understand, though, they are now getting around that by downplaying that step and making it more "secular" (i.e. higher power can be nature, humanism, etc...)

“whats for dinner?”

Since: Jan 14

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#70003 Mar 24, 2014
Adam 36 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry you are incorrect. Moshiach in Hebrew means anointed one, a human leader.
The Jewish idea of mashiach is a great human leader like King David, not a savior
http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm
I agree,.

Since: Jan 14

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#70004 Mar 24, 2014
Judaism, it G-d, its dualism, its human/animal sacrifices, its beliefs are borrowed from the Babylonian cults of the surrounding region. The mysticism in Judaism is not nondualism but based on some form of sorcery.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#70005 Mar 24, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Yea, I've read similar articles regarding AA. Skeptics have been after them for years.
AA has also been criticized for being a "faith-based" organization (i.e. One of the steps requires belief in a higher power). Not a problem for a private organization, per se, but when a court orders someone to attend a meeting where they are pushing a "higher power", that becomes a problem and a clear violation of the first amendment. From what I understand, though, they are now getting around that by downplaying that step and making it more "secular" (i.e. higher power can be nature, humanism, etc...)
Reading the comments, an interesting distinction was made for those that attend voluntarily (and want on some level to quit but need some type of "assistance"), and those sentenced to attend (who just want to get their forms signed). The former group might explain the efficacy. Preconceived buy-in.

Sometime around 25-30 years ago, the courts got into game, and now the majority are in the latter group.

I started out reading that article skeptically, but by the time I finished, the author had a good point. Figure out the triggers. My inner Bhuddist won out over my inner spiritualist. Lol.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#70006 Mar 24, 2014
-Sprocket- wrote:
<quoted text>I agree,.
Praise be to you!

Since: Jan 14

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#70007 Mar 24, 2014
typo

ITS G-d

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#70008 Mar 24, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
From what I understand, though, they are now getting around that by downplaying that step and making it more "secular" (i.e. higher power can be nature, humanism, etc...)
I had assumed that they always made it general enough (though what do I know?), however, the author had a good point in that no matter what the flavor of the deity, the world view is that man is flawed and in need of some type of savoir(ing). That is an inherently Christian world view - shades of original sin - not necessarily found in other religions. I am not sure what a Jewish approach would be, but I would imagine it would involve some type of request for assistance without the self-deprecation. Or not?

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