Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72039 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#69982 Mar 24, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
Both mysticism and science talk of nondualism as the underlying reality. By nondualism is mean perfect oneness of the source with its manifestation. Due to the identity of the source with its manifestation, non-dualism/monism can also be thought of as the One (source) manifesting as the multiplicity (universe). At no stage does nondualism violate the essential principles of conservation and causality. In fact, conservation and causality are the basis of nondualism.
studying Hasidism as usual, I see.

Kol hakavod!

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#69983 Mar 24, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

studying Hasidism as usual, I see.
All streams of mysticism, whether ancient like Vedanta, Chaldean Kaballah, or Buddhism or more recent like Sufism or Hasidism, have arrived at the same monistic conclusion - there's no I or Thou in the highest experiential state but just one reality which can be accessed via the human consciousness through mystical experience since everything has originated from the one source.

Yes, unity underlies all diversity and so the very idea of G-d is ridiculous when viewed from the nondual perspective.

On experiencing the highest nondual state, the monist, after descending from the trance, says, I am that, I am the absolute, or I am the Godhead.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#69984 Mar 24, 2014
HOLON

A holon is something that is simultaneously a whole and a part.

The holon is the pattern that every aspect of nature is based on.

The universe in all its myriad aspects is derived from a single source or in other words the source has manifested itself as the universe and so every aspect of the multiplicity is pregnant with the essence of the whole.

A cell, an atom, a string and a grain are each in the essence the whole though on the surface the singular entity may be limited by its material form and the concomitant consciousness it manifests but within where the entity is connected via lines of force to the entire web of universal existence leading right to the source it is always the whole and has at its background the power, consciousness and expanse of the whole.

Science will never be capable of producing from scratch a single sentient cell or a single atom from the materials of nature since to manufacture any one of these entities would need the power, consciousness and expanse of the whole universe.

So, the bottom to top approach that science adopts is limited, narrow, superficial and fraught with failure as it approaches the more fundamental aspects of nature.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#69985 Mar 24, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
All streams of mysticism, whether ancient like Vedanta, Chaldean Kaballah, or Buddhism or more recent like Sufism or Hasidism, have arrived at the same monistic conclusion - there's no I or Thou in the highest experiential state but just one reality which can be accessed via the human consciousness through mystical experience since everything has originated from the one source.
I will take that as an agreement with my previous post. I will remind you of that next time you say willfully something incorrect about the Jewish religion.
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, unity underlies all diversity and so the very idea of G-d is ridiculous when viewed from the nondual perspective.
A true seeker would never ridicule others belief system, especially when it has a practical basis. This is how we know you are likely a poser and not the real deal. Though I suppose having crappy spiritual "teachers" didnt help you either.

Since: Aug 11

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#69986 Mar 24, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
http://www.salon.com/2014/03/2 3/did_jesus_think_he_was_god_n ew_insights_on_jesus_own_self_ image/
Did Jesus think he was God? New insights on Jesus’ own self-image
The book Zealot... Goes into greater detail on this topic. Short answer: No.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#69987 Mar 24, 2014
TRADITIONAL JUDAISM

Traditional Judaism of the Torah is flawed since it is based on the error of dualism that seeks to separate cause from effect as if such a thing is ever possible.

The idea of a creator G-d is patently false since this creature is uncausally separate from his creation that he supposedly manufactured from nothing and he which he supposedly rules like a tyrant favoring those who he calls his people and abusing those who worship other gods (his rivals).

In the highest state of cosmic existence, the effect is nothing else but the cause in manifestation.

Nondualism, in which there's no G-d or universe in separation from each other, is at the root of the whole of cosmic existence

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#69988 Mar 24, 2014
DID JESUS CONSIDER HIMSELF G-D? YES !!!

If we analyze the sayings of Jesus in the NT, it is clear that Jesus was speaking from a nondual state of consciousness when he declared his oneness with his G-d in the following words:

1) "He who has seen the Son has seen the Father...",

2) "I and my Father are one..."

Besides, the fact that Jesus taught nondualism, unlike the Hebrew patriarchs, is evident from these mystical teachings of his:

a) "The kingdom of heaven is within you..."

b) "Be ye as perfect as thy heavenly father..."

c) "When thine eyes are single thy body is filled with light..."

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#69989 Mar 24, 2014
3 STAGES

Every advanced mystic teaches the following 3 stages:

1) DUALISM (meant for the ignorant people, the commoners)- Dualism preaches an eternal divide between some G-d and his creation which he supposedly created from nothing but over which he somehow rules over despite the absence of a causal link.

2) QUALIFIED NONDUALISM (meant for a higher audience having better intellectual faculties)- Qualified nondualism seeks to establish a tenuous causal link among the diversity of entities we see in nature.

3) NONDUALISM (meant for the intellectual elite)- Nondualism throws away the lower 2 stages and boldly announces that in the essence there's no divide between the cause and its effect with the effect simply being viewed as the cause itself in manifestation.

NOTE: Among the Semites, only Jesus taught all these 3 essential stages of mysticism as listed above, while Abraham, Moses, and Muhammad remained stuck on the lowest stage which is dualism. Dualism is a flawed model since it seeks to separate the cause from its effects and thus as a natural consequence it leads to the erroneous idea of creation ex nihilo, tribalism and fanaticism.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#69990 Mar 24, 2014
Going to play squash and then for a snack and to chill for a while in the Sea Lounge in the Taj. Bye.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#69991 Mar 24, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
TRADITIONAL JUDAISM
Traditional Judaism of the Torah is flawed since it is based on the error of dualism that seeks to separate cause from effect as if such a thing is ever possible.
The idea of a creator G-d is patently false since this creature is uncausally separate from his creation that he supposedly manufactured from nothing and he which he supposedly rules like a tyrant favoring those who he calls his people and abusing those who worship other gods (his rivals).
In the highest state of cosmic existence, the effect is nothing else but the cause in manifestation.
Nondualism, in which there's no G-d or universe in separation from each other, is at the root of the whole of cosmic existence
Who are you to label what in Judaism is considered "traditional"? The theological roots of Hasidism go back at least 2000 years. Sounds pretty traditional to me.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#69992 Mar 24, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The book Zealot... Goes into greater detail on this topic. Short answer: No.
I admit I only scanned the article I posted, but one of the insights I gleaned from it was the argument that Jesus purposely promoted himself as a human savior from bad things, and king (consistent with the literal translation of the Hebrew term mossiach - "one who saves") in an effort to increase his influence and powerbase. And ultimately he was a victim of his own success, when he was no longer able to manage his reputation in scale, posthumously.

Adam 36

Since: Aug 13

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#69993 Mar 24, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Who are you to label what in Judaism is considered "traditional"? The theological roots of Hasidism go back at least 2000 years. Sounds pretty traditional to me.
Seems to me he missed out on Free Will

Adam 36

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#69994 Mar 24, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I admit I only scanned the article I posted, but one of the insights I gleaned from it was the argument that Jesus purposely promoted himself as a human savior from bad things, and king (consistent with the literal translation of the Hebrew term mossiach - "one who saves") in an effort to increase his influence and powerbase. And ultimately he was a victim of his own success, when he was no longer able to manage his reputation in scale, posthumously.
Moshiach means 'anointed one' as in Kings or priests.

When Moshiach was translated into the Greek..Moshiach became Christos or Messiah.

Christos is the basis for Christianity and has no similar basis in Judaism.

Since: Aug 11

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#69995 Mar 24, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I admit I only scanned the article I posted, but one of the insights I gleaned from it was the argument that Jesus purposely promoted himself as a human savior from bad things, and king (consistent with the literal translation of the Hebrew term mossiach - "one who saves") in an effort to increase his influence and powerbase. And ultimately he was a victim of his own success, when he was no longer able to manage his reputation in scale, posthumously.
The historical Jesus (assuming someone who fits his description really existed) is just one of many self-proclaimed "mossiachs". They were a dime a dozen during his time period. Most of them were rebels, fighting for liberation from Roman occupation, and most of them ended up with the same fate (crucified by the Romans for sedition). Many of the "mossiachs" also made enemies of the Jewish priestly class who they saw as corrupt. This made Jesus a man with many enemies and few allies other than the oppressed peasants he preached to. Unfortunately, they wielded little power. And, as is often the case, the legend is bigger than the man.

yehoshooah adam

“Here again in The Torah”

Since: Nov 13

Denver Colorado 80218

#69996 Mar 24, 2014
Adam 36 wrote:
<quoted text>
Moshiach means 'anointed one' as in Kings or priests.
When Moshiach was translated into the Greek..Moshiach became Christos or Messiah.
Christos is the basis for Christianity and has no similar basis in Judaism.
rabbee: if you can't get it right, then it is not worth getting at all. Mosheeach, eevreet derivative from the word Moshe, means Savor and Redeemer. now the words Savior or Redeemer, can be translated into any known language but not both. in order to find out, if someone has been jerking your leg. example latin, would be the root words salve or redemptio. but they do not have a word, that represents both Savior and Redeemer.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#69997 Mar 24, 2014
Adam 36 wrote:
<quoted text>
Moshiach means 'anointed one' as in Kings or priests.
When Moshiach was translated into the Greek..Moshiach became Christos or Messiah.
Christos is the basis for Christianity and has no similar basis in Judaism.
correct. Wasnt quite awake this morning. Y'shea means savior - not mshiach.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#69998 Mar 24, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The historical Jesus (assuming someone who fits his description really existed) is just one of many self-proclaimed "mossiachs". They were a dime a dozen during his time period. Most of them were rebels, fighting for liberation from Roman occupation, and most of them ended up with the same fate (crucified by the Romans for sedition). Many of the "mossiachs" also made enemies of the Jewish priestly class who they saw as corrupt. This made Jesus a man with many enemies and few allies other than the oppressed peasants he preached to. Unfortunately, they wielded little power. And, as is often the case, the legend is bigger than the man.
Speaking of spirituality - thought this artilce was more thought provoking - probably should of posted it instead

The pseudo-science of Alcoholics Anonymous: There’s a better way to treat addiction

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pseudo_sc...

yehoshooah adam

“Here again in The Torah”

Since: Nov 13

Denver Colorado 80218

#69999 Mar 24, 2014
and all the know saviors in scripture, were selected and appointed by G-D Only. and were not selected and appointed by alleged as men. so saviors appointed by men, are not the Saviors appointed by G-D. from Noach, Avraham, Moshe, to Adam are all appointed by G-D directly. and Moshe is only about, half way through TheTorah here in IT again. and half way through TheTorah, is approximately, 3409.000000000 man years.

Adam 36

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#70000 Mar 24, 2014
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: if you can't get it right, then it is not worth getting at all. Mosheeach, eevreet derivative from the word Moshe, means Savor and Redeemer. now the words Savior or Redeemer, can be translated into any known language but not both. in order to find out, if someone has been jerking your leg. example latin, would be the root words salve or redemptio. but they do not have a word, that represents both Savior and Redeemer.
Sorry you are incorrect. Moshiach in Hebrew means anointed one, a human leader.

The Jewish idea of mashiach is a great human leader like King David, not a savior
http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

Adam 36

Since: Aug 13

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#70001 Mar 24, 2014
yehoshooah adam wrote:
and all the know saviors in scripture, were selected and appointed by G-D Only. and were not selected and appointed by alleged as men. so saviors appointed by men, are not the Saviors appointed by G-D. from Noach, Avraham, Moshe, to Adam are all appointed by G-D directly. and Moshe is only about, half way through TheTorah here in IT again. and half way through TheTorah, is approximately, 3409.000000000 man years.
You are confusing savior and anointed one. According to the Hebrew bible there is only one savior.

Put not your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation.
Psalm 146:3

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour.
Isaiah Chapter 43:11

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