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E23Jer34

Klaksvík, Faroe Islands

#67545 Feb 12, 2014
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: and i can assure to you, that what G-D came and said to me about the woman chaooah. i did not get, from any pagan egyptian.
i am here in The Torah, G-D is still giving. so what excuse and cover story did the devil give to you, to try and mentally only to avoid being here in IT?
Satan or the devil only means adversary. And yes i'm seen as the adversary to the jews i understnad that.

But it's pretty moronic to believe in concepts that the bible has invented since there are 1000 of contradictions in the bible. So you can talk about hell all you want while i'm laughing.

You see i got a brain.

But i'm fighting evil - I'm fighting racist jews who have no regard for human gentile life, who have plunged countries to wars, created communism and dictatorship - and who lobby for wars against arabs.

This is serious, horrific, bloody and for the large part secret stuff you jews have been involved in.

And you are pretty shameless about this, and lying all the time trying to cover it.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#67546 Feb 12, 2014
everyone is making up their own not here in The Torah fictional accountings of their unreal lives. everyone is, lying. and i do not care if you are jew, christian, agnostic, atheist or other muslim. your all lying about your not being here, in TheTorah from G-D again. because all the other devils, told you so.
E23Jer34

Klaksvík, Faroe Islands

#67547 Feb 12, 2014
Eitherwise i as a pagan have very few decent rules to follow and most of all i have liberty to be my own God.

Jews and Christians have 1000's of rules to follow.

Christians do at least try to keep em.

but jews they have broken all of them and have introduced alot of evil.
I can just look up the old testament.

If you see a jew you can always check out if he is keeping his own religion by opening the bible and look up the old testament.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#67548 Feb 12, 2014
E23Jer34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Jews believe they are related to abraham, the who essense of the biblical nonsense that is filled up in those retard brain is that they are of pure race, pure jewish blood.
In their view that makes them better than everyone else.
And even if you try to deny that now - Then i can quote talmud and the bible to show how jews in the past realy define as jewish.
rabbee: well i do not give a damn, about what you believe jews believe. and i do not accept the writing of men, i only accept the writing from G-D given to Moshe. i do not need, any of your gnostic scripture or theirs. every known nation on earth, was represented at mt seeanee. so i am not into, the tribalizing of G-D. the redemption of the whole world is at stake here, not just one selfish arrogant tribe claiming G-D is on our side. when they are not really on the side of G-D while saying it. i am not here for the redemption of vain or petty groups of arrogant snobs. nor do i care about any of you all and your grandmother, who are all pretending like you are not here in The Story from G-D again. none of you are holy, because you are mentally only not here in TheTorah from G-D again. i do not want to hear your excuses for your sins, because you have been deceived into believing you are not here in TheTorah today.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#67549 Feb 12, 2014
E23Jer34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Satan or the devil only means adversary. And yes i'm seen as the adversary to the jews i understnad that.
But it's pretty moronic to believe in concepts that the bible has invented since there are 1000 of contradictions in the bible. So you can talk about hell all you want while i'm laughing.
You see i got a brain.
But i'm fighting evil - I'm fighting racist jews who have no regard for human gentile life, who have plunged countries to wars, created communism and dictatorship - and who lobby for wars against arabs.
This is serious, horrific, bloody and for the large part secret stuff you jews have been involved in.
And you are pretty shameless about this, and lying all the time trying to cover it.
rabbee: hasatan is adversary to WHOM? as it appears, you are working for him as an adversary to G-D also. you have too many attributes of hasatan, to not be a genuine worshiper of hasatan, or maybe even baal hamolech, but probably not halooseefer.

and what do you mean you jews, since i am not a jew? can you! even go one second without lying here? i am neither jew, christian, agnostic, atheist or other muslim. i am The HisSon of G-D, adam who has been returned after the death of Adam according to scripture from G-D. so there for i have no ancestors on earth, except by proxy of a Surrogate Mother's association. it is by association only not, really part of the linage.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#67550 Feb 12, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Came across this- Re: beliefs
The Talmud Pays Little Attention to What Jews Believe, Yet Asks Them To Have Faith
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-reli...
".......Usually the follower of a religion is called a “believer,” but the Talmud pays little attention to what Jews believe. What concerns the rabbis is what they do, down to the smallest detail—for instance, which shoe ought to be put on first in the morning.
Yet choreography is not quite the right metaphor here, since the goal of the rabbis is not to produce a graceful or beautiful life, but a holy one. So, Jewish observance can also be likened to a technology—a series of tools that, if used correctly, will produce the desired result, which is to please God and win his blessing. The Talmud, then, would be a manual of sacred technology, showing how to calibrate every prayer, ritual, and action so that it will be most effective......
The very desire "...to please God and win his blessing" stems from sort of religious belief.

What or who is god? Why do we want to please him?

Thought (or belief) determines behavior aka action.

Why do Rabbis care "what they do, down to the smallest detail—for instance, which shoe ought to be put on?'

For the result? ok - why?

"Produce the desired result?" Why? To please god and win his blessing.

Who? Why?

It all goes back to the underlying faith or belief.

Without that, there would be no focused behavior/action.

Why bother?

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#67551 Feb 12, 2014
E23Jer34 wrote:
Eitherwise i as a pagan have very few decent rules to follow and most of all i have liberty to be my own God.
Jews and Christians have 1000's of rules to follow.
Christians do at least try to keep em.
but jews they have broken all of them and have introduced alot of evil.
I can just look up the old testament.
If you see a jew you can always check out if he is keeping his own religion by opening the bible and look up the old testament.
rabbee: oh so is this your excuse for breaking, all the commandments from G-D? because the jews, are breaking them? and what makes your evil, any less worse than any jew? and i am G-D'S Son, i can tell your breaking the law right now. i do not need to check in TheTorah, to see your not here in The Torah disbelief of G-D. i do not want to hear, from you why christians and jews are breaking all the commands of G-D. i want to know, why are you breaking them all?

if you are not here in TheTorah, G-D is still giving today. you have broken every one, of the commandments of G-D. do you really think, your excuse is good enough to excuse your continuous sinning? your just another example, of the devils deceitful works.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#67552 Feb 12, 2014
without lies, there would be no codependent diverse separations of earth so divided. lies cannot exist without the creation of enemies, associates, and allied as friends. the only thing, the lack of truth of G-D does is create adversaries and allies. and the original sin that results in all other sinning, is the refusal to accept being here in TheTorah from HaShem G-D.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#67553 Feb 12, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>I agree!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =7XrRyqses5UXX
One of the songs on my running mix. Love it.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#67554 Feb 12, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
The very desire "...to please God and win his blessing" stems from sort of religious belief.
What or who is god? Why do we want to please him?
Thought (or belief) determines behavior aka action.
Why do Rabbis care "what they do, down to the smallest detail—for instance, which shoe ought to be put on?'
For the result? ok - why?
"Produce the desired result?" Why? To please god and win his blessing.
Who? Why?
It all goes back to the underlying faith or belief.
Without that, there would be no focused behavior/action.
Why bother?
Personally, I dont take to the reward and punishment metaphors. I act in order to attain some type of relationship and leave it as that. Obviously that implies something to relate to. That would be your "belief". However, I am also aware that I create that "to" in order to focus my behavior, but in the pure sense the "to" is an allusion to some epistemeological category that is not (or doesnt have to be) an "a". Like I said before, I am faithful (in action) to a "a", but I dont necessarily believe in the existence of the "a".

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#67555 Feb 12, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
One of the songs on my running mix. Love it.
Better on a running mix than a ping pong mix.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#67556 Feb 12, 2014
E23Jer34 wrote:
<quoted text>

This is not about "being wealthy". This is about a power grabbing, loss of empathy, mass murder and debt creation in the banking network.
I'll answer you later.

I know what you're hinting at.

In one line - Jews are in many ways being used by certain powerful lobbies.

More, later....
former res

Cheshire, CT

#67557 Feb 12, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Personally, I dont take to the reward and punishment metaphors. I act in order to attain some type of relationship and leave it as that. Obviously that implies something to relate to. That would be your "belief". However, I am also aware that I create that "to" in order to focus my behavior, but in the pure sense the "to" is an allusion to some epistemeological category that is not (or doesnt have to be) an "a". Like I said before, I am faithful (in action) to a "a", but I dont necessarily believe in the existence of the "a".
I think my head is spinning but as long as it works for you.

Enjoy the snow!
Ravank

Brooklyn, NY

#67558 Feb 12, 2014
My ... all this knowledge that G-d exists. Makes it odd to say then that if Jesus had instead said ".. Let us hate each other" that perhaps he would have been spared an untimely death and had simply died of old age, instead of as the G-d everyone made him out to having been. Clearly, he was only a man. Clearly, everyone hates each other. The creator of this immense universe needs praise for what exactly!?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#67559 Feb 13, 2014
Ravank wrote:
My ... all this knowledge that G-d exists. Makes it odd to say then that if Jesus had instead said ".. Let us hate each other" that perhaps he would have been spared an untimely death and had simply died of old age, instead of as the G-d everyone made him out to having been. Clearly, he was only a man. Clearly, everyone hates each other. The creator of this immense universe needs praise for what exactly!?
The creator doesnt need the praise. Prayer is for us.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#67560 Feb 13, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I think my head is spinning but as long as it works for you.
Enjoy the snow!
Thats the same position I have been posting all along.

Here is another way of explaining this - Martin Buber to the rescue!

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#67561 Feb 13, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
The very desire "...to please God and win his blessing" stems from sort of religious belief.
What or who is god? Why do we want to please him?
Thought (or belief) determines behavior aka action.
Why do Rabbis care "what they do, down to the smallest detail—for instance, which shoe ought to be put on?'
For the result? ok - why?
"Produce the desired result?" Why? To please god and win his blessing.
Who? Why?
It all goes back to the underlying faith or belief.
Without that, there would be no focused behavior/action.
Why bother?
Here is another way of saying this.

First note that I posted that Talmud citation as an example of how classic Judaism portrays the value of behavior vs belief. I dont buy into the "why" of that (reward and punishment motivation), because my theology is post-classical, but I do buy into the overall architecture of the system (i.e valuing behavior before belief).

The question you continue to have is "why" follow the mitzvot, and does following the mitzvot mean a belief in the existence of God?

That is a good question and is at the heart of all of this. You want to tease out the underlying belief system. That's fair.

My underlying belief system would be thus: Performance of the mitzvot leads to a connection to God. God not as a being, but God as a state. The state of holiness. Characterized as an "I-thou" relationship (Here I refer back to the Buber article I previously posted).

When we use "God talk" (i.e. when we talk about God and force it into an object to be analyzed) we are in an "I-it" relationship with God. God becomes an "it". For convenience. For utility. To be able to be analytical,

But prayer and performance of the mitzvot (really the same thing as far as I am concerned) puts me in a "I-thou" relationship, which is more about experience than objectification. The experience of holiness, which is God. God is no longer an "it".

Are these beliefs? Arguably yes, and arguably no.

Beliefs come from the "I-it" perspective, and as long as we coming from that perspective then we can tease out theologies and underlying belief systems. But the ideal place is to be in the "I-thou" perspective during the performance of the religion.

Both perspectives are necessary to function as a human being, and in fact, I move in and out of both perspectives even during the process of prayer.

A more mystical way of saying all of this is that on one level (pure God) we are all one. But in our day to day, we create *(or God creates) the illusion of separateness (the I-it relationship), so that we can go on with our day, and getting our things done without acting like a complete stoner all the time.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#67562 Feb 13, 2014
Frijoles

I just have to repeat that: Thought (belief) will always drive behavior. You don't just buy flowers for your wife because it's a habit or an instinct. You've thought about it, and you know it's a holiday, a tradition, and/or an expectation (on her part!). There are things we do without thinking of course (breathing etc), but not so much in the religious (or spiritual) realm.

You've also said something to the effect of "think less" and how logic does not necessarily apply to all of this (as opposed to science), but it seems you've thought and reasoned this out quite a bit.

On the side. I was just watching the snow. Oddly enough I can barely see it falling, almost not at all. But it is clearly accumulating rapidly on the ground. So I know (have faith, believe) the snow really IS falling. How's that for a results-based observation of a process?(As you know me through my words on this forum? And god?)

I can't say that I understand your thinking or process. It is foreign to me, almost like another language. And I still think there must be underlying beliefs in order to drive all of it. But it is clear to me you're sincere and that it brings you some kind of reward, peace of mind, comfort, meaning. I believe you would say meaning.

As a still-occasional stoner, I like that comment.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#67563 Feb 13, 2014
ps

Now it's lighter out and I can see the snow falling.

Mystery revealed.

:))

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#67564 Feb 13, 2014
former res wrote:
Frijoles
\\
I can't say that I understand your thinking or process. It is foreign to me, almost like another language. And I still think there must be underlying beliefs in order to drive all of it. But it is clear to me you're sincere and that it brings you some kind of reward, peace of mind, comfort, meaning. I believe you would say meaning.
As a still-occasional stoner, I like that comment.
I know its another language. You havent been exposed to these perspectives, since your exposure to religious thought appears to be from mainstream christianity. Thats why I posted Buber - another way to express it. Who, by the way, is not only regarded as a Jewish theologian, but a philosopher in the secular world as well. And one of theoretical muses of the Beat Generation as well Alan (Ginsberg etc*)(and therefore the Hippie generation).

Go back and read the article on Buber again and hopefully it will start to make sense. By the way, one can have a I-thou relationship not only with "God" but other things such as nature, people, etc.

*Alan Ginsburg and Martin Buber
http://ginsbergblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/mart...

".....1961 - Allen sought out "all the holy men I could find". "I wanted to find out if they had any suggestions. And they all did, and they were all good ones." - "First one I saw was Martin Buber, who was interested (interesting).

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