Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72039 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Since: May 12

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#67199 Feb 9, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Cancer, Aids, I can understand
But typhoid? Who brags about curing typhoid?
What kind of diseases do you expect from India.

Changing the issue, one of the ten commandments is 'remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Christians understand it as a mandatory to go to church and pray god. Though many of them prefer to sleep, rather than going to church What's the Jewish perspective about it? I know you shouldn't work, but is it a mandatory to go to the sinagogue on Sabbath?

Since: May 12

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#67200 Feb 9, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you like Moet and Chandon?
It's one of my favourite along with Cristal Roederer, Krug, Pommery Curveč Luise, Gosset Celebris, Perrier Jouet belle Epoque, Bollinger RD, Armand de Brignac, etc..
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>Which wine glasses should champagne be served in?
I bet even one like you knows it...

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#67201 Feb 9, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>

It's one of my favourite along with Cristal Roederer, Krug, Pommery Curveč Luise, Gosset Celebris, Perrier Jouet belle Epoque, Bollinger RD, Armand de Brignac, etc..
Nice.

I am a teetotaler.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#67202 Feb 9, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>

I bet even one like you knows it...
Yes, I know about the wine glasses.

But, do you know which 4 wine glasses are primarily used to serve champagne?

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#67203 Feb 9, 2014
What is the correct way of holding a wine glass?

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#67204 Feb 9, 2014
winebibber

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#67205 Feb 9, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

A lot of Hasidic Jewish thought is very similar to Zen, except for different terminology -

instead of emptyness and nothingness, they use "God" but the actual concept is very similar if not the same.
The two concepts are neither similar nor the same.

You're seriously mistaken.

Since: May 12

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#67206 Feb 9, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice.
I am a teetotaler.
Why?

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#67207 Feb 9, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

The mitzvot, prayer, and study are technologies to enable me recognize the divine in the moment.

Practice makes perfect.
So, using these technologies, have you realized the divine or the self if there're anything like these entities in reality?

Since: May 12

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#67208 Feb 9, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I know about the wine glasses.
But, do you know which 4 wine glasses are primarily used to serve champagne?
Yes.

Why do you make stupid questions, pretending even an answer? I've read you also asked how to hold a wine glass. I guess the next one would be where to lay glasses on the table, right?

I thought all this was already taught to you.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#67210 Feb 9, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>

Why?
Hyper-sensitive nervous system - even the smell of alcohol, at times, makes my nerves shiver and my head ache, if I happen to be in an extra-sensitive state of consciousness on that particular occasion.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#67211 Feb 9, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>

Yes.

Why do you make stupid questions, pretending even an answer? I've read you also asked how to hold a wine glass. I guess the next one would be where to lay glasses on the table, right?

I thought all this was already taught to you.
So, you don't know which are the 4 main wine glasses in which champagne is usually served.

Yes, where table etiquette is concerned, you must know the correct way of holding a wine glass and know where on the table cover a wine glass is placed.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#67212 Feb 9, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats been my position.
<quoted text>
I call it (a) practice. Practice (of) connecting.
Ideally, I try integrate a variety of cognitive modes. You might be correct that all cognitive modes are thought, but I differentiate between thinking, visualizing (seeing), emoting (which includes experiencing awe), movement, etc --- all modes of cognition
Wow! If you had just said so earlier.

So you would sign the following statement:

I, Frijoles, do not believe in god. I believe the existence of which is unknown and unknowable. For this reason, I take no position as to whether or not god exists.

(I believe this is what you've agreed to above.)

Your practice does sound like a whole lot thinking/cognition. But I do "think" that I understand the different types - right brain vs left etc.

Since: Aug 11

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#67214 Feb 9, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
To be an atheist implies to ACTIVELY disbelieve.
No more than any other position.

While arriving at the atheist position (particularly when one is coming from the polar opposite position), does require some thinking and introspection, once that position has been achieved, there really isn't much "active" disbelieving going on. Like Former said, I spend no more time actively disbelieving in a god than I do in actively disbelieving in the Easter Bunny.
Frijoles wrote:
What proportion of time does one have to spend disbelieving to be worthy of the label? You have to spend a lot of time focused on this issue, disbelieving.
No time, unless you're so inclined to reexamine your position periodically - which is not necessarily required.

There are no time constraints on labels. You either believe or you don't (or you haven't made up your mind yet). The time one spends thinking about their position it is a personal matter. Perhaps one could argue that if you are spending an extreme amount of time thinking about it, then perhaps you haven't selected a position yet, which is perfectly fine as well.
Frijoles wrote:
To me, that takes a certain type of person, a "militant" thinker. The flip of a "militant" believer I guess.
Pet peeve alert. The word "militant" is often thrown about in a derogatory fashion by people uncomfortable with those attempting to change the status quo - militant atheists, militant feminists, militant gays. Every group has a subset of vocal participants whom I prefer to refer to as activists. I can assure you, for every activist atheist, there are hundreds of atheists that belong to the silent majority. Outside of this forum, my atheism comes up extremely rarely, and when it does, it's not initiated by me.
Frijoles wrote:
To me its different side of the same coin. Both the believers and the atheists seem to be possessed with the issue of God
I'm no more obsessed with God than I am with the Easter Bunny. What I do concern myself with is the effects that a belief in a god does have - particularly when it affects others.
Frijoles wrote:
while I, as a behaviorist, tend to skirt the issue of belief - seeing it as irrelevant at best, and an obstruction to my religious practice at worst.
I have atheist thoughts from time to time,(anyone, religious or otherwise who doesn't, probably isnt being honest with themselves) but I would hate to be captured as a position within a label.
No one is forcing the atheist label on you (at least I don't think so). Only you know what your thinking or what you believe, and how strong those beliefs are. In the same respect, don't assume everyone who does prefer to use a label such as atheist is necessarily of the activist variety.

Since: May 12

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#67215 Feb 9, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
Hyper-sensitive nervous system - even the smell of alcohol, at times, makes my nerves shiver and my head ache, if I happen to be in an extra-sensitive state of consciousness on that particular occasion.
LOL

But if from time to time you said you drunk certain alcoholic drinks.

As expected one day claim something, another day you deny it.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#67216 Feb 9, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
The key word here being "before." Which is not to say I've never reconsidered my position. Unlike some of us who were born into a faith, I needed a reason to believe, not a reason to not believe.
And if I weren't buying want generations of my own family was selling me, why the hell would I buy what some Brit was selling. I was agnostic for 30+ years before I ever heard of Dawkins/Hitchins/Bill Maher etc.
When a was teenager I asked my mother, "How do you know all this [Catholicism/Christianity] is true?" She responded, "Faith." I think that's about when I got off the train.
<quoted text>
Not at all. I ask questions of believers. Conversations.
I make no secret of the fact that religion and its adherents fascinate me.
That billions of people around the world hold beliefs without a shred of evidence....not to mention all the strife.....well I think its goddman interesting.
<quoted text>
BS - no proselytizing.
And look, I just found out Frijoles is an atheist who calls himself an agnostic. That's what I was for years!
Now, how's your Adam-12 going?
"See the man at 1523 Lester Street."
Ditto!
former res

Cheshire, CT

#67217 Feb 9, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I spent about a decade trying to figure out what "holy" meant from my religion.
So simple, so oft used, and yet so complicated to really grasp
That's a tough one I imagine, esp for an agnostic.

In "my" church if it were me I'd think of something very, very important - solemn perhaps. Reverential and/or revered. These are all concepts that I can relate to. I respect any belief held sincerely.

I would think for a true believer that it would mean something more. Or at least different.

Likewise, I'm sure that there are many Jews who would say that they do believe in god and the scriptures. Though even if not every bit literally.(Leaving the practice aspect aside for the moment.)

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#67218 Feb 9, 2014
DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THEISM:

Key terms - "holy, sacred, sanctified, hallowed, blessed".

These are purely subjective terms devoid of meaning and lacking in evidence.

To a pagan, a stone is holy, sacred, sanctified, hallowed, blessed.

To a Hindu a cow is holy, sacred, sanctified, hallowed, blessed.

To a Jew the Star of David is holy, sacred, sanctified, hallowed, blessed.

To a Christian a cross is holy, sacred, sanctified, hallowed, blessed.

To a Buddhist the Tripitaka is holy, sacred, sanctified, hallowed, blessed.

Ultimately, of what value are these objects or values they impart to the believer?

Do any of these put one in direct contact with higher states of consciousness, or give one the capacity to change the world, or do they impart higher and useful knowledge that can help the world make progress?

These symbols and values are confinements with zero objective value except of giving the believer a little sense of belonging or a superficial feel good factor or a sense of egoism.

Theists will argue and come to blows over what is holy, sacred, sanctified, hallowed, blessed. LOL.

Throw away all these objects and the values they stand for and one is not diminished in any way. On the contrary, it frees up the mind and makes one more independent, more creative, more liberal, less tribal and more responsible.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#67219 Feb 9, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>

But if from time to time you said you drunk certain alcoholic drinks.

As expected one day claim something, another day you deny it.
What?

I am a teetotaler and a vegetarian.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#67220 Feb 9, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you don't know which are the 4 main wine glasses in which champagne is usually served.
Yes, where table etiquette is concerned, you must know the correct way of holding a wine glass and know where on the table cover a wine glass is placed.
In India, yes means I don't know?

So you don't even know where to lay the different kind of glasses on the table?

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