Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72042 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

former res

Cheshire, CT

#66910 Feb 6, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Question, if it was a young man would you have offered to help him? In any event you could have helped her if you were able to do so. It would not be an investment in your case it would be charity.
Charity begins at home.

I do my part in my own neighborhood. I regularly snowblow the sidewalks of 3 elderly neighbors.

If I liked to shovel, I wouldn't have bought a snow blower!
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66911 Feb 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually you dont,. You spend your time here despising Rabbinic Judaism. And you constantly attempt to redefine what it is to be a Jew.
The Christians in this article try to follow Halacha. And they not only do they not spend any effort redefining what it means to be a Jew, they actually embrace the notion of Jewish identity without imposing themselves on to it, and to boot they do not follow "replacement theology".
Basically, they are everything you are not. But all you should be, if you ever intended to be consistent. You should join them.
HughBe------My circumcision is of the heart. I agree with most of their beliefs.

Frijoles----Actually you dont,. You spend your time here despising Rabbinic Judaism

HughBe---- Based on your words, I take it that your gods do not despise things that are corrupt and this is part of what separates me from them. Now, by the grace of the God of the bible I shall ALWAYS despise corruption. Judaism is CORRUPT is my opinion but I yield to the prophet Moses who says "UTTERLY CORRUPT".

Question, who do you believe Moses or your god-men/RABBIS?

Please understand that they oppose Moses.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66912 Feb 6, 2014
HughBe---Question, if it was a young man would you have offered to help him? In any event you could have helped her if you were able to do so. It would not be an investment in your case it would be charity.

former res---Charity begins at home.

HughBe--- Indeed but it does not stop there.

Former---I do my part in my own neighborhood. I regularly snowblow the sidewalks of 3 elderly neighbors.

HughBe--- Good. Are they all of the same gender?

Former---If I liked to shovel, I wouldn't have bought a snow blower!

HughBe--- So you are into blowing? Perhaps a part of your post is missing but I do not see an answer to my question.

Much love, Mon.

Seriously speaking what has happened to Virgin.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66913 Feb 6, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
So if making fun of someone's god doesn't degrade their religion, what does?
Painting swastikas? Is that where you would draw the line?
I draw the line at hate speech. Jest is not hate.

Hypothetically - I am ok with jesting with a Christian if I am ok with the Christian jesting back to me at my religion. Which I am.

Swastikas are a symbol of hate.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66914 Feb 6, 2014
COR/FR

Re: the question of whether ethics can supercede religion

I came across this passage

From Rabbi Mike Comins "A Wild Faith" http://www.amazon.com/Wild-Faith-Jewish-Wilde...

"...This brings me to the first point I'd like to make to the Jewish atheist or agnostic. Its not what you believe. It's about what you see - what you discern in this world and how you understand your experience.

Most of our lives can be described without reference to religion. We dont need God to talk about art, ethics, psychology, or politics. Of course these fields can and do overlap with religion. Thus academics can study religious ethics, religious art, and so on. Follows of psychologist Carl Jung can understand God as the collective unconscious. But these fields need no religious language.

There is one set of terms, however, that is exclusive to religion: holy, sacred, sanctified, hallowed, blessed. If you use these words to describe parts of your experience in life, you are likely feeling the impulse that gives birth to religion...."
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66915 Feb 6, 2014
On the Wednesday edition of his TV show,“The 700 Club,” Robertson indirectly implored Ham to put a sock in it, criticizing Ham’s view that the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

“Let’s face it, there was a bishop [James Ussher]… who added up the dates listed in Genesis and he came up with the world had been around for 6,000 years,” Robertson began.“There ain’t no way that’s possible … To say that it all came about in 6,000 years is just nonsense and I think it’s time we come off of that stuff and say this isn’t possible.”

“We’ve got to be realistic that the dating of Bishop Ussher just doesn’t comport with anything that’s found in science,” Robertson continued,“and you can’t just totally deny the geological formations that are out there.”

“Let’s be real,” Robertson begged,“let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

http://www.salon.com/2014/02/05/pat_robertson...
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66916 Feb 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I draw the line at hate speech. Jest is not hate.
Hypothetically - I am ok with jesting with a Christian if I am ok with the Christian jesting back to me at my religion. Which I am.
Swastikas are a symbol of hate.
Former---So if making fun of someone's god doesn't degrade their religion, what does?
Painting swastikas? Is that where you would draw the line?

Frijoles----I draw the line at hate speech. Jest is NOT hate.

HughBe----Jamaican proverb says: "What is joke to you is death to me."

Frijoles---Swastikas are a symbol of hate.

HughBe--- Agree and so are "Jeebus" and "Xians"

Later
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66917 Feb 6, 2014
former res wrote:
On the Wednesday edition of his TV show,“The 700 Club,” Robertson indirectly implored Ham to put a sock in it, criticizing Ham’s view that the Earth is only 6,000 years old.
“Let’s face it, there was a bishop [James Ussher]… who added up the dates listed in Genesis and he came up with the world had been around for 6,000 years,” Robertson began.“There ain’t no way that’s possible … To say that it all came about in 6,000 years is just nonsense and I think it’s time we come off of that stuff and say this isn’t possible.”
“We’ve got to be realistic that the dating of Bishop Ussher just doesn’t comport with anything that’s found in science,” Robertson continued,“and you can’t just totally deny the geological formations that are out there.”
“Let’s be real,” Robertson begged,“let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”
http://www.salon.com/2014/02/05/pat_robertson...
Robertson lacks understanding and the same for the other fellow. Also is Robbie really saying that God could not create ALL things in a SECOND or shorter? The fellow Robbie is senile.

Later.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66918 Feb 6, 2014
former res wrote:
...Who's trying legislate their beliefs onto anyone else...
Evangelical politicians in the US attempt to do it all the time. Where do you think the impetus for the following comes from...

- Laws to allow the teaching of ID/Creationism in public schools
- Banning gay marriage
- Banning abortion
- Banning contraceptive coverage from Obamacare
- Adding "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance
- Attempting to pass legislation to add prayers back in public schools

The list goes on...

There are plenty of theocrats on public office. Mike Huckabee has not been shy about his belief that this nation would be better served under a Christian theocracy.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66919 Feb 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats why you always need a teacher or mentor.
Thats also probably partially why Joel is such a psycho case. Meditate on your own at your own peril.(Twice today with that word!). Easy to get lost. and then lost. and then lost....
<quoted text>
I am thinking about legislating marriage inequality, legislating the lack of reproductive freedom, and the mandate to teach creationism, for a start.
Damn, I'm getting slow in my old age...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66920 Feb 6, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
So if making fun of someone's god doesn't degrade their religion, what does?
Painting swastikas? Is that where you would draw the line?
I see no problem with making fun of religion, any more than any other topic. Why must religion get a free pass?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66921 Feb 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
COR/FR
Re: the question of whether ethics can supercede religion
I came across this passage
From Rabbi Mike Comins "A Wild Faith" http://www.amazon.com/Wild-Faith-Jewish-Wilde...
"...This brings me to the first point I'd like to make to the Jewish atheist or agnostic. Its not what you believe. It's about what you see - what you discern in this world and how you understand your experience.
Most of our lives can be described without reference to religion. We dont need God to talk about art, ethics, psychology, or politics. Of course these fields can and do overlap with religion. Thus academics can study religious ethics, religious art, and so on. Follows of psychologist Carl Jung can understand God as the collective unconscious. But these fields need no religious language.
There is one set of terms, however, that is exclusive to religion: holy, sacred, sanctified, hallowed, blessed. If you use these words to describe parts of your experience in life, you are likely feeling the impulse that gives birth to religion...."
Makes sense. It's pretty much what I've been saying all along. And to his list of religious words, I would add worship, divine, spiritual, and probably a few more I can't think of right now.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66922 Feb 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I draw the line at hate speech. Jest is not hate.
Hypothetically - I am ok with jesting with a Christian if I am ok with the Christian jesting back to me at my religion. Which I am.
Swastikas are a symbol of hate.
Exactly.

If/When I make fun of religion, I am attacking an idea. If I were to use a swastika, I would be attacking a person or group of people (something I don't do).

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66923 Feb 6, 2014
former res wrote:
On the Wednesday edition of his TV show,“The 700 Club,” Robertson indirectly implored Ham to put a sock in it, criticizing Ham’s view that the Earth is only 6,000 years old.
“Let’s face it, there was a bishop [James Ussher]… who added up the dates listed in Genesis and he came up with the world had been around for 6,000 years,” Robertson began.“There ain’t no way that’s possible … To say that it all came about in 6,000 years is just nonsense and I think it’s time we come off of that stuff and say this isn’t possible.”
“We’ve got to be realistic that the dating of Bishop Ussher just doesn’t comport with anything that’s found in science,” Robertson continued,“and you can’t just totally deny the geological formations that are out there.”
“Let’s be real,” Robertson begged,“let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”
http://www.salon.com/2014/02/05/pat_robertson...
Yep, read about it last night. Pot, meet Kettle :-)

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66924 Feb 6, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Robertson lacks understanding and the same for the other fellow. Also is Robbie really saying that God could not create ALL things in a SECOND or shorter? The fellow Robbie is senile.
Later.
And this is why we have thousands of sects of xtianity, not to mention all the variations of all the other religions... Seems no one can come to agreement on anything.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66925 Feb 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I draw the line at hate speech. Jest is not hate.
Hypothetically - I am ok with jesting with a Christian if I am ok with the Christian jesting back to me at my religion. Which I am.
Swastikas are a symbol of hate.
Wow - seems as though you really see this issue in black and white.

No such thing as mean-spirited humor? A joke that hurts someone's feelings?

A joke that disrespects a group, gender, race, religion, ethnic heritage?

(Note that I am playing devil's advocate. I enjoy a very wide range of humor. But not everyone does.)

Would a funny cartoon of Mohamed be ok?

Is the only test whether YOU would find something offensive?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66926 Feb 6, 2014
And the plot thickens...

"Dylan Farrow's Brother Moses Says Mia Farrow, Not Woody Allen Was Abusive"

http://gma.yahoo.com/dylan-farrow-39-brother-...

The entire Farrow family isn't taking sides against Woody Allen.
After Dylan Farrow penned an open letter revealing details of the sexual abuse she claims happened 20 years ago at the hands of her adopted father Allen, her brother Ronan and mother Mia Farrow both are standing by her side.
One of her other brothers - Moses Farrow, a family therapist - is not. He says he is now able to see the other side of things, and it was Mia Farrow who was abusive, not Allen.
"Of course Woody did not molest my sister," Moses, 36, told People magazine.
He continued, "My mother drummed it into me to hate my father for tearing apart the family and sexually molesting my sister. And I hated him for her for years. I see now that this was a vengeful way to pay him back for falling in love with Soon-Yi."
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66927 Feb 6, 2014
HughBe wrote:
former res---Charity begins at home.
HughBe--- Indeed but it does not stop there.
We give money to a few charities.

How do you "give back?"
HughBe wrote:
Former---I do my part in my own neighborhood. I regularly snowblow the sidewalks of 3 elderly neighbors.
HughBe--- Good. Are they all of the same gender?
Why gender matter? Does it to you?

They are: 2 widows and one elderly couple.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66928 Feb 6, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---So if making fun of someone's god doesn't degrade their religion, what does?
Painting swastikas? Is that where you would draw the line?
Frijoles----I draw the line at hate speech. Jest is NOT hate.
HughBe----Jamaican proverb says: "What is joke to you is death to me."
Frijoles---Swastikas are a symbol of hate.
HughBe--- Agree and so are "Jeebus" and "Xians"
Later
Though I am also guilty of poking fun, I have to agree with our tropical friend on this issue.

"Hate speech" might be a little strong, but in this age of PCness, the term has been applied to less.

If someone told me they were offended by my words of "jest" - how could I disagree? Though inside I might well be saying, "Get over it."

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66929 Feb 6, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow - seems as though you really see this issue in black and white.
No such thing as mean-spirited humor? A joke that hurts someone's feelings?
A joke that disrespects a group, gender, race, religion, ethnic heritage?
(Note that I am playing devil's advocate. I enjoy a very wide range of humor. But not everyone does.)
Would a funny cartoon of Mohamed be ok?
Is the only test whether YOU would find something offensive?
I admit I am offering reflective rationalizations - never really parsed the issue out

I would agree with COR to a point that it does depend whether you are directing it to a people or a concept. But I think intent (i.e. the emotion attached to it) also matters.

If I insult your religion, but I didnt mean to, either because you are thinner skinned, or because time has changed the standards and it is now considered insulting (i.e. PC catches up), I think that this is not the biggest sin in the world. However, if I insult your religion KNOWING I am going to insult it, then that is wrong.

In case of the prophet cartoon - I could argue that in some cases it is not meant as an insult (and in some cases it is), and standards have not changed (i.e its a standard of free speech)- however knowing that it WILL be received as an insult, then I would put this example as more as a political issue than an interpersonal issue. Its a gray area, for sure.

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