Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.
Comments
59,941 - 59,960 of 68,423 Comments Last updated 11 min ago
former res

Cheshire, CT

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66473
Jan 28, 2014
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Hate to weigh in again, but technically speaking, Rick IS correct. He has yet to share his beliefs.
Other than to say "Judaism is my myth" he has not.

But I don't think I said otherwise.

Hence it's a straw man argument.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66474
Jan 28, 2014
 

Judged:

1

1

1

former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't see where I've made any assumptions. I've been responding to your words.
If you see it differently, please point it out.
My point was simple:
You compared JC with unicorns.
There is no more evidence to support
the beliefs of any religion than there is
for the existence of unicorns.
That's it.
But he wasnt presenting evidence to support his beliefs - he was criticizing the beliefs of others.

You can argue whether that behavior was "neighborly" (I would say yes (eye for an eye..), you would say no, perhaps), but he wasnt using that allusion to assert his beliefs behind his religion).

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66475
Jan 28, 2014
 

Judged:

1

1

former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Other than to say "Judaism is my myth" he has not.
But I don't think I said otherwise.
Hence it's a straw man argument.
Beg to disagree. You are arguing he is being hypocritical. He can only be hypocritical if he was using the unicorn argument to bolster his belief. He was not.

I dont think you were out of line for questioning his thought process. Thats what we do here. But I view that as an extracurricular affair - not germane to the motivation behind his comment.
former res

Cheshire, CT

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66476
Jan 28, 2014
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
But he wasnt presenting evidence to support his beliefs - he was criticizing the beliefs of others.
You can argue whether that behavior was "neighborly" (I would say yes (eye for an eye..), you would say no, perhaps), but he wasnt using that allusion to assert his beliefs behind his religion).
Nor did I say he had.

He stated what his own myth was.

On the side, are you saying it's ok to do whatever
anyone does to you? Are there any limits to this approach?
former res

Cheshire, CT

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66477
Jan 28, 2014
 

Judged:

1

1

Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Beg to disagree. You are arguing he is being hypocritical. He can only be hypocritical if he was using the unicorn argument to bolster his belief. He was not.
I dont think you were out of line for questioning his thought process. Thats what we do here. But I view that as an extracurricular affair - not germane to the motivation behind his comment.
Would he ridicule his own beliefs in the same way?

I doubt it.

It's his chosen myth. Therefore it is better.

Perhaps hypocrite is not the correct word.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66478
Jan 28, 2014
 

Judged:

1

1

former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Nor did I say he had.
He stated what his own myth was.
On the side, are you saying it's ok to do whatever
anyone does to you? Are there any limits to this approach?
Doctrine of proportional response

also known as "eye in place of eye, tooth in place of tooth, hand in place of hand, foot in place of foot, burnt-scar in place of burnt-scar, wound in place of wound, bruise in place of bruise...."

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66479
Jan 28, 2014
 

Judged:

1

1

former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Would he ridicule his own beliefs in the same way?
I doubt it.
It's his chosen myth. Therefore it is better.
Perhaps hypocrite is not the correct word.
How do you know?

I find fundies (or any religion) lack sense of humor. Jews, otoh, invented self-deprecation.

But to get deeper - thats what I was getting back to with my labeling of your bias. Judaism isnt that beholden to personal belief, its actually quite fluid and robust with regard to God concept, so your unicorn analogy is not so critical. For example - concept of holiness. Ask a observant Jew what it means to be holy or to act holy and you might get 26 different interpretations and shades of meaning. You really can not compare it to fundie Christianity- which is rigid and lacks nuance.
former res

Cheshire, CT

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66480
Jan 28, 2014
 

Judged:

1

Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Doctrine of proportional response
also known as "eye in place of eye, tooth in place of tooth, hand in place of hand, foot in place of foot, burnt-scar in place of burnt-scar, wound in place of wound, bruise in place of bruise...."
...and soon everyone is blind.

Fortunately the law doesn't quite see it that way.
Otherwise we'd all probably be dead by now.
Or in perpetual war. Hey, I guess we are!

Except under the great Jimmy Carter!:))
(I know you're a big fan.)

No shots fired by US military during his reign.
former res

Cheshire, CT

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66481
Jan 28, 2014
 

Judged:

1

Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know?
I find fundies (or any religion) lack sense of humor. Jews, otoh, invented self-deprecation.
But to get deeper - thats what I was getting back to with my labeling of your bias. Judaism isnt that beholden to personal belief, its actually quite fluid and robust with regard to God concept, so your unicorn analogy is not so critical. For example - concept of holiness. Ask a observant Jew what it means to be holy or to act holy and you might get 26 different interpretations and shades of meaning. You really can not compare it to fundie Christianity- which is rigid and lacks nuance.
Christians would also give a variety of responses. Jews aren't the only ones able to think for themselves, or laugh at themselves for that matter.

Ever listen to George Carlin? He used to talk about his days in Catholic school.

We're all cafeteria followers in our own way.

OTOH most religions have liberal and more conservative wings.

Fundies are the extreme, though admittedly there are a lot of them. esp in the heartland.

I could see a fundie Christian hillbilly shooting anyone who got near his still.
Thou shalt not kill be damned.

Heading out. Back tomorrow. Have a good one.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66482
Jan 28, 2014
 

Judged:

1

1

former res wrote:
<quoted text>
...and soon everyone is blind.
Fortunately the law doesn't quite see it that way.
Otherwise we'd all probably be dead by now.
Or in perpetual war. Hey, I guess we are!
Except under the great Jimmy Carter!:))
(I know you're a big fan.)
No shots fired by US military during his reign.
You might not realize it, but the normative interpretation that verse is that you can monetize damages and sue. The key is proportional. I.E. as in not excessive. I.E. if you damage someones eye its not fair to go after their teeth....

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66483
Jan 28, 2014
 

Judged:

1

1

Thank you for the judgements Stefano-idiot.

glad to see you are still here

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Singapore -- Home of Hot

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66484
Jan 28, 2014
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Would he ridicule his own beliefs in the same way?
I doubt it.
It's his chosen myth. Therefore it is better.
Perhaps hypocrite is not the correct word.
Would a Jew ridicule his own beliefs? Have you ever MET a Jew? We're not hard to find. Talk to your boss, your landlord, your parole officer ... try to get some first hand information on us.

Do I believe Judaism is better than other faiths? Yes, but only for me. I believe that whatever you believe is best for you (and if it's not, why would you believe it?).

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Singapore -- Home of Hot

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66485
Jan 28, 2014
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
...I could see a fundie Christian hillbilly shooting anyone who got near his still.
Thou shalt not kill be damned...
Hey! I happen to be a hillbilly (the Jewish variety) and we have a long history and rich culture. I find your condescending tone offensive to my people and my creed. I personally have never had to shoot anyone near my still because I keep it locked up. Prevention is better than cure.

And the biblical injunction isn't "Thou shalt not kill", it is "You shall not murder.", People kill all the time, we kill to eat, to keep our homes from of vermin and to survive. Murder, on the other hand is a completely different thing involving the deliberate killing of a person not in the defence of ourselves or others and (most of the time) I agree it's impolite to murder someone.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66486
Jan 28, 2014
 
Speaking of offensive - did Joel get kicked off this forum?

Since: May 12

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66487
Jan 28, 2014
 
Frijoles wrote:
Thank you for the judgements Stefano-idiot.
glad to see you are still here
Typical stupid comment from the almost-brainless idiot that might as well be the brainless idiot for excellence.

Don't give too much importance to yourself, deluded. I can care less about your pathetic reasoning and hypocrisy.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Singapore -- Home of Hot

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66488
Jan 28, 2014
 
Frijoles wrote:
Speaking of offensive - did Joel get kicked off this forum?
I'm not sure what you could possibly do to get kicked off this forum -- but, I'm sure it would involve nun rape or koala murder.

The more likely explanation is involuntary committal or he got the crap beat out of him by forgetting you can't say anything you like in the real world.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66489
Jan 28, 2014
 
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure what you could possibly do to get kicked off this forum -- but, I'm sure it would involve nun rape or koala murder.
The more likely explanation is involuntary committal or he got the crap beat out of him by forgetting you can't say anything you like in the real world.
Last week there was actually some type of monitor-bit that was deleting some of his posts. He was going nuts (as if he wasnt already) and started to message me with the deleted posts in my private mailbox until I blocked him.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Singapore -- Home of Hot

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66490
Jan 28, 2014
 
I'm not sure how sinister that is. I have found that when I make a post behind a VPN (which I do frequently while traveling) that post almost never makes it to the general forum. I can see it, but no one else can and it looks very much like a deleted post (except that it never makes it up to be deleted).

When I'm working or traveling, I make my posts with an iPhone which is problematic in itself as I tend to be verbose and have poor motor skills.

There is some algorithm in Topix that tries to reconcile your detected location with your IP address and will choke if something seems amiss. Which is odd, you can be a raving loon, antisemite and that's OK, but post from the wrong location and suddenly you're not Topix material.

Weird

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66491
Jan 28, 2014
 
Rick Moss wrote:
I'm not sure how sinister that is. I have found that when I make a post behind a VPN (which I do frequently while traveling) that post almost never makes it to the general forum. I can see it, but no one else can and it looks very much like a deleted post (except that it never makes it up to be deleted).
When I'm working or traveling, I make my posts with an iPhone which is problematic in itself as I tend to be verbose and have poor motor skills.
There is some algorithm in Topix that tries to reconcile your detected location with your IP address and will choke if something seems amiss. Which is odd, you can be a raving loon, antisemite and that's OK, but post from the wrong location and suddenly you're not Topix material.
Weird
In Joels case I am pretty certain there was a human involved, because he was complaining that a bunch of his posts didnt make it through - and there was a gap in the numberings. He blamed it on us Jews - his argument being that we were offended (like we cared enough to report him).

So as an experiment I tried to report him and discovered I would have to own up to my email address - which aborted the experiment and made me wonder again who would bother. Then a few posts later he did say something really offensive, and I complained IN a post (not using the report function), and POOF! he disappeared for a few more posts. Basically I think there was a moderator who was fcking with him. Looking for an excuse. This forum has about 60000+ posts - it would be logical that somewhere within Topix admin that someone has noticed us here.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Singapore -- Home of Hot

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66492
Jan 28, 2014
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>In Joels case I am pretty certain there was a human involved, because he was complaining that a bunch of his posts didnt make it through - and there was a gap in the numberings. He blamed it on us Jews - his argument being that we were offended (like we cared enough to report him).

So as an experiment I tried to report him and discovered I would have to own up to my email address - which aborted the experiment and made me wonder again who would bother. Then a few posts later he did say something really offensive, and I complained IN a post (not using the report function), and POOF! he disappeared for a few more posts. Basically I think there was a moderator who was fcking with him. Looking for an excuse. This forum has about 60000+ posts - it would be logical that somewhere within Topix admin that someone has noticed us here.
I'm unconvinced there are any actual moderators here - at least on any regular basis. I think it's completely automated. For example, if you type on certain words or phrases the system will block you from posting with a warning about offensive language. Sometime the results are pretty funny. I've had the metaphorical phrase 'you kill me' blocked for being offensive.

Having a post auto blocked for 'offensive' language does seem to trigger a human response even after it's edited to remove the offending content.

The IP address theory makes sense to me because it works so intermittently. It will block posts randomly so appears to be selective.

People using VPN is pretty common in India. Because local ISPs censor pretty heavily, it's the only way for most Indians to get porn and bootleg torrents.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Type in your comments below
Name
(appears on your post)
Comments
Characters left: 4000
Type the numbers you see in the image on the right:

Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

•••
•••
•••

Chicago Jobs

•••
Enter and win $5000
•••
•••

Chicago People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••

Chicago News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Chicago
•••

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]
•••