Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72043 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

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#62978 Nov 18, 2013
That is a very common fallacy that nothing can be true unless it agrees with human conditions and can be conceived by the human mind.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62979 Nov 18, 2013
"Quantum physics discovered that physical atoms are vorticies of energy that are constantly vibrating. So every material structure in the Universe including you and me radiates a unique energy signature."

– Dr Bruce Lipton

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62980 Nov 18, 2013
"We already have the technology to travel amongst the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity, anything you can imagine we already know how to do."

– Ben Rich, Former CEO at Lockheed Skunk Works

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62981 Nov 18, 2013
It's probable that covert science has already invented free energy devices....

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62982 Nov 19, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>

A Vedantist or a Buddhist can hope to win a debate with scientists when the talk centers on broad cosmic principles or on morality since these two eastern worldviews are way superior in logic/information about the nature of reality and on ethics when compared to the nonsense found in Tanach.
Why do you always assume people are out to win or loose?

That is very unBhuddist.

Why cant you accept the fact that there are different modes of expression and leave it at that?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#62983 Nov 19, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Why, Hugh, you have done this personally. You have told us that although you are not a Jew, you have Jewish ancestors and relatives. How did you do it? Maybe you did it because you don't recognize being a Jew due to your personal preferences.
HughBe--- Use your training and tell me via the laws of BIOLOGY, CHEMISTRY and even physics that a Jew who is a Christian is no longer a Jew.

Hint: Using science demonstrate how a change in religious BELIEFS will alter one's BIOLOGICAL relationship to mother and father, grandparents, cousins and ancestors.

Suppose one such person has a FAMILY history of a genetic defect that causes partial blindness in the right eye, use your scientific knowledge and explain how a change in beliefs will change this GENETIC defect and so not afflict the person.

Demonstrate the disconnect between this JEW and his or her Jewish BLOODLINE.

Eric---Why, Hugh, you have done this personally.

HughBe--- I have NEVER done any such thing. Am I one of your delusional rabbis? Absolutely NOT.

The words are going over your head, trust me. Go back and read them again.

Eric---You have told us that although you are not a Jew, you have Jewish ancestors and relatives.

HughBe--- So what, it is a fact.

Eric--- How did you do it?

HughBe--- I did nothing. Here is how it went. My Jewish grandfather saw my sexy non-Jewish grandmother and knew her. As a result my mother was born. Now had you the intelligence to call my mother Jewish I would have accepted it because she is the seed of a MAN who is a Jew.

As for me, I am no Jew as my father was not one.

I am the son of a Jewish woman but my father was not Jewish and so I am NOT Jewish. Compare my words to the example in the Tanach.

I know that you neither believe Moses nor God but I shall still quote the Torah.

"Now the SON of an Israelite MOTHER and an Egyptian FATHER went out AMONG the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between HIM and AN Israelite." Leviticus 24:10

Clear his MOTHER did NOT make him an Israelite. My mother cannot make me a Jew.

Finally, your father is a Jew and so both you and your brother are Jews and nothing can change that, not even your love of LIES and stupidity. Your brother could worship an ANT, he shall always be a Jew.

Eric---Maybe you did it because you don't recognize being a Jew due to your personal preferences

HughBe--- Try this, I am not into LIES. I am a witness of truth regardless of the level of discomfort or turbulence that TRUTH may cause.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#62984 Nov 19, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
ethno-religious
that means partly by birth through mother and partly by belief
to qualify under either, you have to self-identify. No self-identification, you are no longer Jewish.
I dont recollect you ever asserting that you had matrilineal descent. You have Jewish ancestry, but no intact bloodline.
Jews are not the first tribe or only tribe to have rules of descent. Its a very common system. If you studied anthropology you would of known this.*
No need to reply. I wont be reading it anyhow.
----------
*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilineality
Matrilineality is a system in which descent is traced through the mother and maternal ancestors. Matrilineality is also a societal system in which one belongs to one's matriline or mother's lineage, which can involve the inheritance of property and/or titles.
A matriline is a line of descent from a female ancestor to a descendant (of either sex) in which the individuals in all intervening generations are mothers – a mother line. In a matrilineal descent system an individual is considered to belong to the same descent group as her or his mother. This matrilineal descent pattern is in contrast to the more common pattern of patrilineal descent from which a Family name is usually derived.
The matriline of historical nobility was also called her or his enatic or uterine ancestry, corresponding to the patrilineal agnatic ancestry.
In some ancient cultures, membership in their groups was (and still is if in bold) inherited matrilineally. Example cultures or societies include the Cherokee, Choctaw, Gitksan, Haida, Hopi, Iroquois, Lenape, Navajo, and Tlingit of North America; the Minangkabau people of West Sumatra, Indonesia and Negeri Sembilan, Malaysia; the Nairs of Kerala and the Bunts of Karnataka in south India; the Khasi, Jaintia and Garo of Meghalaya in northeast India; the Mosuo of China; the Basques of Spain and France; the Akan including the Ashanti of west Africa; the Tuaregs of west and north Africa; and the Serer of Senegal, the Gambia and Mauritania. Some of these examples are discussed in this article, as listed below
FOCUS. Give it a try. Do not stray again. Resist your natural ways.

Use your training and tell me via the laws of BIOLOGY, CHEMISTRY and even physics that a Jew who is a Christian is no longer a Jew.
Hint: Using science demonstrate how a change in religious BELIEFS will alter one's BIOLOGICAL relationship to mother and father, grandparents, cousins and ancestors.

Suppose one such person has a FAMILY history of a genetic defect that causes partial blindness in the right eye, use your scientific knowledge and explain how a change in beliefs will change this GENETIC defect and so not afflict the person.

Demonstrate the disconnect between this JEW and his or her Jewish BLOODLINE.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#62985 Nov 19, 2013
Frijoles, as I take my leave let me ask you this question. However, before the question I want you to be aware that it does not replace the other SCIENTIFIC based questions.

Suppose you have children and all are underage and they decided to convert to Christianity could YOU disown them and say they are no longer your children?

Would you be free of your LEGAL responsibilities to care and protect them?

Would they have any legal claims to your parents estate if they died intestate? If not why not?

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62987 Nov 19, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Why cant you accept the fact that there are different modes of expression and leave it at that?
There is a scale of relativity (based on scriptural content, logic and evidence) where validity of the different worldviews are concerned.

In this scale, Judaism ranks at the bottom for obvious reasons.
Eric

Batavia, IL

#62988 Nov 19, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- Use your training and tell me via the laws of BIOLOGY, CHEMISTRY and even physics that a Jew who is a Christian is no longer a Jew.
Hint: Using science demonstrate how a change in religious BELIEFS will alter one's BIOLOGICAL relationship to mother and father, grandparents, cousins and ancestors.
Suppose one such person has a FAMILY history of a genetic defect that causes partial blindness in the right eye, use your scientific knowledge and explain how a change in beliefs will change this GENETIC defect and so not afflict the person.
Demonstrate the disconnect between this JEW and his or her Jewish BLOODLINE.
Eric---Why, Hugh, you have done this personally.
HughBe--- I have NEVER done any such thing. Am I one of your delusional rabbis? Absolutely NOT.
The words are going over your head, trust me. Go back and read them again.
Eric---You have told us that although you are not a Jew, you have Jewish ancestors and relatives.
HughBe--- So what, it is a fact.
Eric--- How did you do it?
HughBe--- I did nothing. Here is how it went. My Jewish grandfather saw my sexy non-Jewish grandmother and knew her. As a result my mother was born. Now had you the intelligence to call my mother Jewish I would have accepted it because she is the seed of a MAN who is a Jew.
As for me, I am no Jew as my father was not one.
I am the son of a Jewish woman but my father was not Jewish and so I am NOT Jewish. Compare my words to the example in the Tanach.
I know that you neither believe Moses nor God but I shall still quote the Torah.
"Now the SON of an Israelite MOTHER and an Egyptian FATHER went out AMONG the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between HIM and AN Israelite." Leviticus 24:10
Clear his MOTHER did NOT make him an Israelite. My mother cannot make me a Jew.
Finally, your father is a Jew and so both you and your brother are Jews and nothing can change that, not even your love of LIES and stupidity. Your brother could worship an ANT, he shall always be a Jew.
Eric---Maybe you did it because you don't recognize being a Jew due to your personal preferences
HughBe--- Try this, I am not into LIES. I am a witness of truth regardless of the level of discomfort or turbulence that TRUTH may cause.
Then Jesus was not Jewish because his father was not Jewish.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62989 Nov 19, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a scale of relativity (based on scriptural content, logic and evidence) where validity of the different worldviews are concerned.
In this scale, Judaism ranks at the bottom for obvious reasons.
What nonsense is that?

"scale of relativity"

What are you measuring?

I just said that there are different modes of expression. Do you know what the word "different" means?

What is the goal of Bhuddism? What is the goal of Christianity? What is the goal of Judaism? They are totally different goals. You can not even compare them.

A real Bhuddist would NEVER waste their time making the type of judgements you make.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62990 Nov 19, 2013
HughBe wrote:
Frijoles, as I take my leave let me ask you this question. However, before the question I want you to be aware that it does not replace the other SCIENTIFIC based questions.
Suppose you have children and all are underage and they decided to convert to Christianity could YOU disown them and say they are no longer your children?
Would you be free of your LEGAL responsibilities to care and protect them?
Would they have any legal claims to your parents estate if they died intestate? If not why not?
As usual you are confusing civil law with religious law. Where we live, they are separate systems with separate jurisdictions. I know this must blow your mind.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62991 Nov 19, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

HughBe--- I did nothing. Here is how it went. My Jewish grandfather saw my sexy non-Jewish grandmother and knew her. As a result my mother was born. Now had you the intelligence to call my mother Jewish I would have accepted it because she is the seed of a MAN who is a Jew.
As for me, I am no Jew as my father was not one.
I am the son of a Jewish woman but my father was not Jewish and so I am NOT Jewish. Compare my words to the example in the Tanach.
I know that you neither believe Moses nor God but I shall still quote the Torah.
"Now the SON of an Israelite MOTHER and an Egyptian FATHER went out AMONG the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between HIM and AN Israelite." Leviticus 24:10
Clear his MOTHER did NOT make him an Israelite. My mother cannot make me a Jew.
Finally, your father is a Jew and so both you and your brother are Jews and nothing can change that, not even your love of LIES and stupidity. Your brother could worship an ANT, he shall always be a Jew.
.
There, You said it. Your moms' mom was not Jewish.

Therefore most Jewish denominations would not accept you as Jewish.

Now, lets pretend for the moment that you were born Jewish. I.E. Your Mom was Jewish because her mom was Jewish. And then you decided that the Christian path was the right path for you.

You would have the choice at that point to call yourself what ever you want. Just like you have the choice now. However, freedom to choose a label does not translate into the right of others to accept that label. So once you became Christian, even if you called yourself a Jew, virtually no other Jew would accept you as a Jew. The identities are mutually exclusive. You, as the outside would not have the right to redefine what the rest of the group accepts as membership criteria. Case closed on that one.

Regarding your quotation of Torah - it has been firmly established on the forum (and in real life) that us Jews are not fundamentalists i.e. we interpret and apply law rather than following your citations. Yes, we all know Judaism was originally patrilineal, and then it changed somewhere down the road - in Greek or Roman times.

However, we are now in modern times, and this is how Jews apply the law now. You have no standing to be aggrieved because you are not a member of our group. Nor are we preventing you from joining our group, provided you follow out entry process.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62992 Nov 19, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

What nonsense is that?

"scale of relativity"

What are you measuring?

I just said that there are different modes of expression. Do you know what the word "different" means?

What is the goal of Bhuddism? What is the goal of Christianity? What is the goal of Judaism? They are totally different goals. You can not even compare them.

A real Bhuddist would NEVER waste their time making the type of judgements you make.
ha ha, you didn't get it?

A scale of relativity of the different religious worldviews would mean that the religious scriptures of the world are evaluated on the basis of textual content, deeds of the founding prophets, universality of ethics and scientific information.

In this exercise in comparing the teachings/practices of the various world religions, obviously, Judaism ranks at the bottom given the evils preached by the Hebrew Bible as seen in the wrathful, jealous, murderous, abusive and vindictive nature of its G-d; the barbarism of its patriarchs; its perverse blood sacrifices; its inhuman punishments to apostates, homosexuals, slaves and disobedient sons; its command to indulge in cannibalism; the genocides of rival tribes; its narrow tribal nature; its preaching of intolerance/hatred/violence/sc orn directed at other faiths; its irrationality in teaching creation from nothing and many other negative instances.

All this savagery and illogic and more pushes Judaism to the bottom of the heap of world religions.

“Here again in The Torah”

Since: Nov 13

Denver Colorado 80218

#62993 Nov 19, 2013
here in TheOnly Story, TheG-D of Only TheTorah gives. in this whole world that only says, they are not here in IT only again.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62994 Nov 19, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
ha ha, you didn't get it?
A scale of relativity of the different religious worldviews would mean that the religious scriptures of the world are evaluated on the basis of textual content, deeds of the founding prophets, universality of ethics and scientific information.
But I did get it. Who died and made you the Ayatollah of comparative religious indices?

I surely did not. And you lack the scholarly background or the objectivity to even attempt this endeavor if someone did appoint you.

You cant compare any of these systems with Vedanta. Its goals are crazily different than Western religious goals. Any serious "student" of Bhuddism would laugh at you (with equanimity, ideally).

It was never the goal of the Torah to offer a serious theology, universal ethics (its a tribal covenant for Gods sake!), or a basis for science. And yet you are analyzing its content in those terms.

N/A
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#62995 Nov 19, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Then Jesus was not Jewish because his father was not Jewish.
Son, Jesus is not your business. WE understand and know that Jesus based on BIOLOGY was Jewish. WE also know and understand that He was divine.

Leave this matter and get back to the lessons taught and STUDY them.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#62996 Nov 19, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
There, You said it. Your moms' mom was not Jewish.
Therefore most Jewish denominations would not accept you as Jewish.
Now, lets pretend for the moment that you were born Jewish. I.E. Your Mom was Jewish because her mom was Jewish. And then you decided that the Christian path was the right path for you.
You would have the choice at that point to call yourself what ever you want. Just like you have the choice now. However, freedom to choose a label does not translate into the right of others to accept that label. So once you became Christian, even if you called yourself a Jew, virtually no other Jew would accept you as a Jew. The identities are mutually exclusive. You, as the outside would not have the right to redefine what the rest of the group accepts as membership criteria. Case closed on that one.
Regarding your quotation of Torah - it has been firmly established on the forum (and in real life) that us Jews are not fundamentalists i.e. we interpret and apply law rather than following your citations. Yes, we all know Judaism was originally patrilineal, and then it changed somewhere down the road - in Greek or Roman times.
However, we are now in modern times, and this is how Jews apply the law now. You have no standing to be aggrieved because you are not a member of our group. Nor are we preventing you from joining our group, provided you follow out entry process.
Frijoles---Therefore most Jewish denominations would not accept you as Jewish.

HughBe--- So what? I don't accept myself as Jewish and you believe that I would be concerned if others hold that same position.

Get back to the lessons that were delivered by me.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62997 Nov 19, 2013
Fool. LOL.

JOEL THUMBS UP

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#62998 Nov 19, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

But I did get it. Who died and made you the Ayatollah of comparative religious indices?

I surely did not. And you lack the scholarly background or the objectivity to even attempt this endeavor if someone did appoint you.

You cant compare any of these systems with Vedanta. Its goals are crazily different than Western religious goals. Any serious "student" of Bhuddism would laugh at you (with equanimity, ideally).

It was never the goal of the Torah to offer a serious theology, universal ethics (its a tribal covenant for Gods sake!), or a basis for science. And yet you are analyzing its content in those terms.

N/A
Fool. LOL.

End of debate.

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