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HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53604 May 28, 2013
HughBe---Clearly as an atheists he(Former) does NOT go to the weddings of his fellow atheists or persons of a non-Christian faith.

Former-- why would you say that?

HughBe--- YOU were asked about celebrating Christmas and other CHRISTMAS related questions. In answering such questions you inserted BS that suggested that you attended Christian functions to the exclusion of other functions.

Former--My own wedding was civil ceremony, performed by a Justice of the Peace. No church.

HughBe--- So, in a CONTEXT that YOU are being called a SECULAR Christian why did you give your typical UNBALANCED and MISLEADING comments about Christian weddings etc?

Was your wedding a Christian wedding, secular Christian?

Former--But I have been to all kinds of weddings, even Jewish.

HughBe--- So why the SILENCE? why the FOCUS on Christians?

HughBe---His answer--"Yes, WE do all that and enjoy it very much." is pure CRAP. He was asked about HIMSELF. Note, my(HughBe) family does ALL of that but I don't.

Former---In our country, when we say "we" that includes "me."

HughBe--- It must be a Spanish speaking country because English people understood from my words that the WE was inclusive of you. What is still missing in your understanding is that nobody was asking YOU about others, YOU were being asked about YOURSELF, legions.

Former--I personally participate in all the activities mentioned.

HughBe--- Stop deceiving your stupid self.

Former---We are not home for Christmas. We are at the home of my wife's parents

HughBe--- How does that prevent you from erecting a tree at home and decorating your home? The trappings are not there for a DAY.

Former-- But we love Christmas and all the traditions and trappings very much - tree, gifts, stockings (I have on with my name on it made by my wife!) and we go to church on Christmas eve.

HughBe--- So do you buy gifts and wish everybody a merry Christmas although you do not believe in it?

Are YOU a SECULAR Christian?

Former---And I even go to church from time to time.

HughBe--- No doubt to renew your ATHEISTS vows.

Former---Not at all. for the time of contemplation, the sense of community, experiencing appreciation for what we have, to give to the poor, to sing, to light a candle, all good stuff

HughBe--- Do you have any organization that is not RELIGIOUS that you could "give to the poor" ?

Why do you an ATHEISTS choose a Church to do these good? Recall you did not even get married in a Church.

Former---Perhaps the rest of us are just too complicated for you.

HughBe--- Perhaps but more likely too STUPID in your deception attempts and reasoning skills.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53605 May 28, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Baxtard.
No Son, since I do NOT celebrate Christmas I do NOT give gifts not even to my children.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53606 May 28, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
As I previously mentioned that is a side point. The question was whether 2 Billion Christians (of which I would put FR as one of them regardless of his level of religiosity which is obviously minimal) are able to DERIVE meaning from their traditions without believing in the literal history.
Just like us Jews do.
yes, not all of us here on planet earth are staunch fundamentalist literalists like you
Listen well, DECEIVER. In the SANE world those who REJECT the idea of God or gods are NOT religious.

In the RELIGION called JUDAISM there are SECULAR Judahites but this is a "SPECIAL" case as nowhere else in the world you shall find such MADNESS of a SECULAR subset of a RELIGIOUS group.

Does Former call himself a SECULAR Christian?

If NOT, who do YOU think you are to label him so?

Why do you allow the LEGIONS within you to dominate you to the point of TOTAL STUPIDITY?

You are just being plain IDIOTIC and self-deceiving. I am guaranteeing you this that your argument makes sense ONLY to your fellow DECEIVED BLIND DUMB BRAINLESS sheep.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53607 May 28, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
And I would add that if the mark of a TRUE Christian was one who did all of that AND still believed 100% in the storyline, you would be excluding a lot of people who still see themselves as Christian (even if you in particular dont see yourself as Christian).
Hughbes attempt to define TRUE Christian is just as flawed as his attempt to define the TRUE Jew
I believe it is a logical fallacy as well. The No True Scottsman fallacy.
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php...
"....Similarly, apologists argue that Christians are good people by categorically denying that anyone who does a bad deed is a "true Christian". The lack of a generally accepted definition of "Christian" allows apologists to redefine the word to fit their arguments. For this reason, many self-professed Christians who commit bad deeds are excluded from the group by apologists..."
Hughbe = dumb thinking
Never heard The No True Scottsman fallacy - interesting.

Live and learn.

I also believe most of what JC taught.

Other than believing he was the son of god, he might
think I was a good Christian??

Certainly a better one than the hateful Jamaican who rails against a whole segment of our population for no good reason at all.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53608 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Time wasting exercise but here goes. History records the existence of Jesus. History accepts the personality called Jesus of Nazareth.
So, continue to select and accept the history that makes you GAY.
What a short memory you have.

No doubt owing to your microcephalic issue.

I only recently acknowledged that a man named Jesus likely lived.(Did you forget that already?)

By all accounts, he was an interesting man, perhaps a mystic of some sort. I've even known Jews who believe he existed.

Not the same thing as him being the son of god. Or there being a god.

OK? Next.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53609 May 28, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
And I would add that if the mark of a TRUE Christian was one who did all of that AND still believed 100% in the storyline, you would be excluding a lot of people who still see themselves as Christian (even if you in particular dont see yourself as Christian).
Hughbes attempt to define TRUE Christian is just as flawed as his attempt to define the TRUE Jew
I believe it is a logical fallacy as well. The No True Scottsman fallacy.
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php...
"....Similarly, apologists argue that Christians are good people by categorically denying that anyone who does a bad deed is a "true Christian". The lack of a generally accepted definition of "Christian" allows apologists to redefine the word to fit their arguments. For this reason, many self-professed Christians who commit bad deeds are excluded from the group by apologists..."
Hughbe = dumb thinking
Frijoles---Hughbes attempt to define TRUE Christian is just as flawed as his attempt to define the TRUE Jew

HughBe--- Listen well, anus. JEWS are a RACE of people. Recall the linearity that you spoke of perhaps less that 24 hours ago? Linearity has to do with BIOLOGY.

So linearity is NOT applicable to Christianity given that Christianity is a RELIGION and is not based on RACE or genes.

So with or without any RELIGION a person is a JEW. A JEW is a JEW without JUDAISM. The GENES of the JEWS do NOT change even if their FAITH changes for the better.

The JEWS existed long before JUDAISM and shall exist long AFTER Judaism.

Without a belief in Jesus a person is NEVER a Christian and this is NOT a private interpretation. Note boy, a belief in Jesus is NOT sufficient to make you a Christian and that is a FACT.

Do NOT define Christians as you don't even know who is a Jew and YOU claim to be one.

Are you interested in becoming a Christian?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53610 May 28, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually the jury is still out on even that one.
And even if he existed, that doesnt prove he is supranatural as many Christians believe.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
Amazingly, the question of an actual historical Jesus rarely confronts the religious believer. The power of faith has so forcefully driven the minds of most believers, and even apologetic scholars, that the question of reliable evidence gets obscured by tradition, religious subterfuge, and outrageous claims. The following gives a brief outlook about the claims of a historical Jesus and why the evidence the Christians present us cannot serve as justification for reliable evidence for a historical Jesus.
Evidence for the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth (the Christ) as portrayed in the Bible is only found in three places: the Bible itself, other early Christian writings, and references by the various early churches (c. 100CE) to the long dead leader of those churches. There are no contemporaneous sources outside of the early Christian community.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the...
Historians focusing on this era generally accept that there was likely some fellow named Jesus who lived in Palestine roughly two millennia ago, had a very small following of people studying his views, was killed by the government for some such reason, and whose life became pivotal to some of the world's largest religions. Beyond this, however, there is doubt over the accuracy of any of the descriptions of his life, as described in the Bible or as understood by his believers. A handful of authors, past[1] and present[2] believe there is insufficient justification to assume any individual human seed for the stories.
Frijoles---Actually the jury is still out on even that one

HughBe--- The Sanhedrin being out does not change the fact that history makes mention of Jesus. Start with Flavius Josephus. Have you heard of him?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53611 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
No Son, since I do NOT celebrate Christmas I do NOT give gifts not even to my children.
Coal in THAT stocking.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53612 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Listen well, DECEIVER. In the SANE world those who REJECT the idea of God or gods are NOT religious.
In the RELIGION called JUDAISM there are SECULAR Judahites but this is a "SPECIAL" case as nowhere else in the world you shall find such MADNESS of a SECULAR subset of a RELIGIOUS group.
Does Former call himself a SECULAR Christian?
If NOT, who do YOU think you are to label him so?
Why do you allow the LEGIONS within you to dominate you to the point of TOTAL STUPIDITY?
You are just being plain IDIOTIC and self-deceiving. I am guaranteeing you this that your argument makes sense ONLY to your fellow DECEIVED BLIND DUMB BRAINLESS sheep.
Who said anything about rejecting God?

We were talking about rejecting the story of Christmas.

If you call me a Judahite, i call you a n_gg_er. Remember?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53613 May 28, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
What a short memory you have.
No doubt owing to your microcephalic issue.
I only recently acknowledged that a man named Jesus likely lived.(Did you forget that already?)
By all accounts, he was an interesting man, perhaps a mystic of some sort. I've even known Jews who believe he existed.
Not the same thing as him being the son of god. Or there being a god.
OK? Next.
Former---No doubt owing to your microcephalic issue.
I only recently acknowledged that a man named Jesus likely lived.

HughBe--- My dear pencil point, you should not use words that you don't know the meaning of, your gross stupidity is forgiven.

Next, YOU questioned the existence of Jesus and that is why I spoke about history making mention of Him.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53614 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Frijoles---Hughbes attempt to define TRUE Christian is just as flawed as his attempt to define the TRUE Jew
HughBe--- Listen well, anus. JEWS are a RACE of people. Recall the linearity that you spoke of perhaps less that 24 hours ago? Linearity has to do with BIOLOGY.
So linearity is NOT applicable to Christianity given that Christianity is a RELIGION and is not based on RACE or genes.
So with or without any RELIGION a person is a JEW. A JEW is a JEW without JUDAISM. The GENES of the JEWS do NOT change even if their FAITH changes for the better.
The JEWS existed long before JUDAISM and shall exist long AFTER Judaism.
Without a belief in Jesus a person is NEVER a Christian and this is NOT a private interpretation. Note boy, a belief in Jesus is NOT sufficient to make you a Christian and that is a FACT.
Do NOT define Christians as you don't even know who is a Jew and YOU claim to be one.
Are you interested in becoming a Christian?
So funny. If you scroll back to my earliest comments - I said I was humoring you by following your own line of logic

Which you now reject

This entire side point is a straw position anyhow. The bigger question is how a Christian can reject the Christmas story as a literalism but still be a Christian.

And I easily won that discussion a few posts ago.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53615 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Frijoles---Actually the jury is still out on even that one
HughBe--- The Sanhedrin being out does not change the fact that history makes mention of Jesus. Start with Flavius Josephus. Have you heard of him?
Dont shoot the messenger. All I can do is report on the controversy. If you have issue, argue with the professional historians, not me.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53616 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- I believe that you embraced WW11 as it was all planned, based on a document that was once in a British Museum.
Ok - whatever. I wasn't alive yet.

My favorite thing in that museum is the Rosetta Stone - fascinating!
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---Justifying mediocrity.
HughBe--- Full IDIOT, we were talking about bad techniques and being an IDIOT your position is that bad techniques are all bad.
On the other hand I am telling you via ONE example alone that bad techniques don't have to be ineffective and I used the case of hurdling. Your problem is your inability to think and to compound matters when things are explained to you the capacity to understand TRUTHFUL and simple things is absent.
All things being equal, is it better to practice correct technique or incorrect technique?

thank you, I accept your apology
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former--A man who will speak in homophobic rants only because of some ancient writings written by those UNKNOWN and long dead.
HughBe--- Is Shakespeare alive and KNOWN to YOU? Do people speak and act and learn about him and his works?
William is not alive but well known, and well read.

He was a playwright, not a god.

What is your silly point?
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- Tell me about any car company in the way that I have outlined below and do so WITHOUT researching the information.
1.the ADMINISTRATION
2. FINANCIAL position,
3. HR policies
4. MORALE in the company
5. PAY packages
Why? Are you planning on investing?

I have lost your point if you ever had one.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53617 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

Do NOT define Christians as you don't even know who is a Jew and YOU claim to be one.
Once again, the NO TRUE SCOTTSMAN fallacy

You are having a bad day - want to try again tomorrow?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53618 May 28, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
What a short memory you have.
No doubt owing to your microcephalic issue.
I only recently acknowledged that a man named Jesus likely lived.(Did you forget that already?)
By all accounts, he was an interesting man, perhaps a mystic of some sort. I've even known Jews who believe he existed.
Not the same thing as him being the son of god. Or there being a god.
OK? Next.
Former now---I only recently acknowledged that a man named Jesus likely lived.(Did you forget that already?)

HughBe---Compare that with his Post 53480 written 23 hours ago.

POST--

HughBe --Simplifying, Christians who celebrate Christmas do so because they are celebrating a REAL EVENT and not an imaginary events as in the case of Purim.

Former---a real event? Not so.

(HughBe--My guess is that NOT SO is an acknowledgment)
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53619 May 28, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Dont shoot the messenger. All I can do is report on the controversy. If you have issue, argue with the professional historians, not me.
Controversy among Judahites but NOT in the rest of the world.

Not even Josephus a Jew had any doubts but the pharaohs of the 21st century have come up with evidence to prove his non-existence.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53620 May 28, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok - whatever. I wasn't alive yet.
My favorite thing in that museum is the Rosetta Stone - fascinating!
<quoted text>
All things being equal, is it better to practice correct technique or incorrect technique?
thank you, I accept your apology
<quoted text>
William is not alive but well known, and well read.
He was a playwright, not a god.
What is your silly point?
<quoted text>
Why? Are you planning on investing?
I have lost your point if you ever had one.
HughBe--- I believe that you embraced WW11 as it was all planned, based on a document that was once in a British Museum.

Former--Ok - whatever. I wasn't alive yet.

HughBe--- Did you remember that when you spoke? NO, it was one of those senior moments, I guess.

Former--My favorite thing in that museum is the Rosetta Stone - fascinating!

HughBe--- I accept your words as true and believe that the shape carries the appeal for you.

Former---Justifying mediocrity.

HughBe--- Full IDIOT, we were talking about bad techniques and being an IDIOT your position is that bad techniques are all bad.
On the other hand I am telling you via ONE example alone that bad techniques don't have to be ineffective and I used the case of hurdling. Your problem is your inability to think and to compound matters when things are explained to you the capacity to understand TRUTHFUL and simple things is absent.

Former---All things being equal, is it better to practice correct technique or incorrect technique?

HughBe--- On the face of it I shall say correct. This does not change the fact that people with poor techniques can still be effective and very successful. I have seen it.

What is regarded as good now can at a later date be regarded as not so good . One example the high jump technique.

Former--thank you, I accept your apology

HughBe--- You are welcome.

Former--A man who will speak in homophobic rants only because of some ancient writings written by those UNKNOWN and long dead.

HughBe--- Is Shakespeare alive and KNOWN to YOU? Do people speak and act and learn about him and his works?

Former---William is not alive but well known, and well read.

HughBe--- Jesus is BETTER known and READ.

Former---He was a playwright, not a god.

HughBe--- His shortcomings.

Former---What is your silly point?

HughBe--- It is silly only because you don't know what the hell you are talking about. On what basis were you responding all along?

How long have you been at sea?

HughBe--- Tell me about any car company in the way that I have outlined below and do so WITHOUT researching the information.
1.the ADMINISTRATION
2. FINANCIAL position,
3. HR policies
4. MORALE in the company
5. PAY packages

Former---Why? Are you planning on investing?

HughBe--- Because it will highlight to you that you do not know the maker of the car. YOU know about a car and from that you can make statements about the maker.

I know about the world and from it I can tell about the Maker.

Former---I have lost your point if you ever had one.

HughBe--- Nasty habit of yours.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53621 May 28, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
So funny. If you scroll back to my earliest comments - I said I was humoring you by following your own line of logic
Which you now reject
This entire side point is a straw position anyhow. The bigger question is how a Christian can reject the Christmas story as a literalism but still be a Christian.
And I easily won that discussion a few posts ago.
So with or without any RELIGION a person is a JEW. A JEW is a JEW without JUDAISM. The GENES of the JEWS do NOT change even if their FAITH changes for the better.

The JEWS existed long before JUDAISM and shall exist long AFTER Judaism.

Without a belief in Jesus a person is NEVER a Christian and this is NOT a private interpretation. Note boy, a belief in Jesus is NOT sufficient to make you a Christian and that is a FACT.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53622 May 28, 2013
HughBe wrote:
HughBe--- YOU were asked about celebrating Christmas and other CHRISTMAS related questions. In answering such questions you inserted BS that suggested that you attended Christian functions to the exclusion of other functions.
Yes and no. I do attend Christian function but still not sure you thought that meant "to the exclusion of other functions."

I can chew gum and still walk straight at the same time.

Guess I'm a multitasker.
HughBe wrote:
Former--My own wedding was civil ceremony, performed by a Justice of the Peace. No church.
HughBe--- So, in a CONTEXT that YOU are being called a SECULAR Christian why did you give your typical UNBALANCED and MISLEADING comments about Christian weddings etc?
Everything I said was true.

What is your question?

Is it confusing to you that we chose one type of wedding for ourselves while still accepting the choice of our friends and family?
HughBe wrote:
Former--But I have been to all kinds of weddings, even Jewish.
HughBe--- So why the SILENCE? why the FOCUS on Christians?
That was the issue I was asked to address.

Specifically how I observe Christmas. I chose to expand my response. Was this wrong or deceptive in your view?
HughBe wrote:
Former---In our country, when we say "we" that includes "me."
HughBe--- It must be a Spanish speaking country because English people understood from my words that the WE was inclusive of you. What is still missing in your understanding is that nobody was asking YOU about others, YOU were being asked about YOURSELF, legions.
In our country the observance of Christmas is a family experience.

A rich and rewarding time to catch up and spend time with people we care about.

You should try it.
HughBe wrote:
Former---We are not home for Christmas. We are at the home of my wife's parents
HughBe--- How does that prevent you from erecting a tree at home and decorating your home? The trappings are not there for a DAY.
No but we choose not to.

Frankly, Christmas tress are expensive and a real pain in the ass to buy, bring home, set up, maintain and then get rid of later in January.

My 84 year old father in law keeps saying every year will be his last but he still does it - mostly for the kids I guess.

We do minor decorations around our house - but no tree.
HughBe wrote:
Former-- But we love Christmas and all the traditions and trappings very much - tree, gifts, stockings (I have one with my name on it made by my wife!) and we go to church on Christmas eve.
HughBe--- So do you buy gifts and wish everybody a merry Christmas although you do not believe in it?
Yes and I mean it.

I wish Jews a happy new year and peace and drink "to life."

Why wouldn't I?
HughBe wrote:
Former---Not at all. for the time of contemplation, the sense of community, experiencing appreciation for what we have, to give to the poor, to sing, to light a candle, all good stuff
HughBe--- Do you have any organization that is not RELIGIOUS that you could "give to the poor" ?
Yes and we do.

Again, multitasking. You should try it.
HughBe wrote:
Why do you an ATHEISTS choose a Church to do these good? Recall you did not even get married in a Church.
It's all part of the experience. A family and community event.

It's not even a Catholic church - Prezby/Protestant.

I get the distinct impression you would not welcome me to your church. Or give me a gift at Christmas.

Why do you not give our kids gifts at Christmas?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53623 May 28, 2013
YOUR kids

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