Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#53366
May 27, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess your "properly educated" in Jamaica never attended your fine universities
Where History and Lit are different departments as well
http://www.mona.uwi.edu/programmes/undergrad....
University of West Indies
What EXACTLY is your notion of properly educated?
HughBe---While I appreciate your quote from the AUTHORITATIVE source i.e. wikipedia I am once again telling you that among the properly educated history is regarded as LITERATURE.

Frijoles---I guess your "properly educated" in Jamaica never attended your fine universities

Where History and Lit are different departments as well

http://www.mona.uwi.edu/programmes/undergrad ....
University of West Indies

HughBe--- You are acquiring KNOWLEDGE but NOT the understanding.

Frijoles---What EXACTLY is your notion of properly educated?

HughBe--- Joel and so learn from him.

Joel---WHAT IS LITERATURE?

HUGH: "Literature is any book, article etc. on a subject including poems, science and history."

JOEL - CORRECT, in a broad or sweeping way.

Literature, as for instance - Books and writings published on a particular subject: "the literature on environmental epidemiology".

Since: May 13

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#53367
May 27, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

HughBe---- Will you be dickless after the transformation? I ask because it seems to serve no useful purpose.
Complete supramentalization in anyone with the innate capacity would lead to the atrophy and subsequent replacement of the internal organs by 16 activated force centers.

Physical immortality and perfect invincibility would be other outcomes.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#53368
May 27, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but you labeled Judaism as a "Faith". Any "properly educated"* Jew will tell you otherwise. Faith is a component but it is not the religion.
* I like your term - hope you dont mind me using it the way it is intended to be used.
HughBe--- No doubt in the RELIGION called Judaism FAITH is the SCIENTIFIC part or arm of the RELIGION.

Frijoles---YES..

HughBe--- Amazing. Tell me about the SCIENCE of faith in Judaism.

Frijoles--- but you labeled Judaism as a "Faith".

HughBe--- So what? Judaism is FAITH meaning a RELIGION.

Also YOU called Christianity faith.


Frijoles---Any "properly educated"* Jew will tell you otherwise. Faith is a component but it is not the religion.

HughBe--- Such BS. It is clear to me that in your world you are very educated and that is why YOU do not know that FAITH means RELIGION.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#53369
May 27, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Judaism is a tribal religion. It is only intended for a group of people. Its tied to a homeland, has a special language, and its own sacred history. Jews call themselves "a people". And there are patterns of descent that depend on lineaty.
These are all characteristics of tribal religions, cross--culturally. If you have further questions about this fact, consult your nearest anthropologist.(You know, the ones in the ANTHROPOLOGY DEPARTMENT, not the Lit department)
HughBe--- Judaism is a RELIGION it is NOT a TRIBE and it has NEVER been a TRIBE. There are no TRIBES called Judaism.

Frijoles---Judaism is a tribal religion.

HughBe--- Let me explain your words to YOU. Being a TRIBAL religion does NOT make it a TRIBE, Einstein. It means that the religion BELONGS to the TRIBE.

HughBe---Explain the nation of Israel concept that you speak of.

Frijoles--- It is only intended for a group of people.

HughBe--- Noted. Support.

Frijoles---Its tied to a homeland, has a special language, and its own sacred history.

HughBe--- So what? What language is the special one that you talk of? Is French special? How many languages are there in the world?

How many of them are special?

Again, explain the nation of Israel concept. You have not so as yet.

Frijoles---Jews call themselves "a people".

HughBe--- So do Americans wherever they are in the world.

Frijoles---And there are patterns of descent that depend on lineaty

HughBe The pattern of descent and linearity is all about RACE and NOT a religion called Judaism.

There is no descent in JUDAISM.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#53370
May 27, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Because I see it as LITERATURE, not HISTORY
I do celebrate Purim
GO back and read the posts between FR and I about how just because something is literature, it still can have meaning.
Furthermore, I know you have been "properly educated" but I recommend you read what the other properly educated anthropologists have to say on this matter as well.
http://www.colorado.edu/ReligiousStudies/cher...
RELIGION AS A CULTURAL SYSTEM:
THE THEORY OF CLIFFORD GEERTZ
Frijoles-- personally I dont accept that megillah(Esther) as history.

HughBe--- List the reasons why that is so.

Frijoles---Because I see it as LITERATURE, not HISTORY

HughBe--- So, you see it as literature and in your IGNORANT world history is not literature. I see.

HughBe---Do you celebrate Purim?

Frijoles---I do celebrate Purim

HughBe---Given that the story of Esther is FICTIONAL and not HISTORICAL what justification is there for you to celebrate it?

Why do you and members of Judaism CELEBRATE a LIE.

Are the sheep told that Esther did NOT happen it is just a fable?

Your celebration makes no sense but then again very little of what you believe do.

Do you read the book of Esther online?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#53371
May 27, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
we read Esther in the native Hebrew in synagogue out of a scroll
I dont bother with what you call the OT - so I am only speaking from my own experience.
Again is Esther found in Books?

Do YOU study Esther from a scroll at home?

How old is your scroll?

I made no mention of the Old Testament.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#53372
May 27, 2013
 
HughBe--- How did you verify that Christopher Columbus existed? Was it via time travel?
How did you verify that men went to the moon?
Did you go and examine the evidence on the moon?

Former---There are those items whose evidence I choose to accept as do most folks.

HughBe--- In other words YOU do no VERIFICATION as you previously claimed. Instead you accept by FAITH.

Former--And then there are stories devoid of evidence (like your god) that I choose to reject.

HughBe--- Give me YOUR evidence for space travel and Columbus.

Former--To each his own my friend.

HughBe--- Correct, you put down things that you do not believe on the basis that there in no evidence and yet you embrace things without evidence perhaps because it makes you feel special.

HughBe--- Here is HughBe's system. Literature is any book, article etc. on a subject including poems, science and history.

Former---You are using a different definition of the word.

HughBe--- At least not all over there are idiots. I am using A wider definition and not a limited one.

Former---Yes broadly speaking, literature can refer to material on most any subject.

HughBe--- Your man Friggie has not yet learnt this widely known thing among teenagers here.

Former---I was using the library/Dewey Decimal definition. We were all raised on that system here in the US.(Not the Huggybear system..)

HughBe--- All should seek to improve. I have given you the better system. Use it.

HughBe---Master in Science degree.
Healthcare-related.

HughBe--- So, are you a Grind-ae-cologist?

Former--Family practice, all ages, all areas.

HughBe--- Good. Shy away from the rear areas in your practice, please.

HughBe --In Jamaica it would be in the RELIGIOUS section. Does that tell you that religion is FICTION?

HughBe--- But is religion FICTION? The rituals etc. that are performed in churches, synagogues and mosques are they REAL or FICTIONAL?

Former--if you look at the definition of religion:

"(1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices"

It sounds more like personal philosophy than anything else.

HughBe--- It has PRACTICE as well.

Former---Not so much about facts or reality.

HughBe--- The things DONE are REAL. They are NOT philosophy.

Former--I believe you're thinking of the writer of the James Bond stories who had a home there as well if I'm not mistaken. Ian Fleming.

HughBe--- I did not need wiki, you are correct and I made a mistake. I know both names.

Former---So you are not infallible.

HughBe--- Mere man and yet a god among men.

Former--How refreshing.

HughBe--- agree.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#53373
May 27, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
Bye, retard.
He wants a handsome boy to f..., I guess.
(smiles)
Frijoles has his "wife"/boy.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#53375
May 27, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.
Yes, but they have poor logical skills and lack a sound grasp of the basics in math and science without which higher studies in scientific disciplines cannot be undertaken and if undertaken it would be a sham. Besides, they've got their degrees from ordinary and nondescript colleges/universities where the academic and intellectual standards are inferior. All this is clearly evident in them.
Anyway.
It is a fact that all standards are not the same.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#53376
May 27, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
Analytical methods apply to both fields of study - Lit and History - and language as a medium of thought and communication is common to both.
So, there are overlaps.
Anyway, in order to understand the civilizations mentioned in the bible, one first needs to read it like a story or a literary piece of work before attempting to verify any of its claims referring to places, personalities, monuments, tombs, customs, etc.
So, I don't see much of a contradiction.
When I studied Shakespeare in school as part of English Lit, we read through most of his important works and analyzed them through the lens of language appreciation but later we also made a study of the history found in it as part of the English Literature project. Julius Cesar is one such example.
Thats a proper education!

The only problem is that Hughbe would reject that approach as well. He is a literalist.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#53378
May 27, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
All of it is not false.
Biblical narratives dealing with religious personages, places, climate, geography, battles fought, customs, families, clans, kings, dwelling places and the like are part of religious history.
Metaphysics found in bible is beyond the scope of science or history.
Formal history taught in academic institutions invariably deals with highly selective phases of human history and here too the conclusions drawn are, on many occasions, based on the most flimsy scraps of evidence and then they build up a tall hypothesis, make misleading surmises or digress a lot from the actual event. It's a highly incomplete subject like any other.
All true. But Hughbe would disagree with all of that.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#53379
May 27, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
By Bible do you mean NT or the Tanakh?
Whatever, much of the narratives in both books is historical and we often read about new archeological finds that corroborate its claims - nations, important people, customary practices, tombs, etc, have been verified by archeological evidence.
Noted historians like Sir William Ramsay, historian A N Sherwin and others accept large parts of biblical history as true.
The metaphysical aspects cannot be verified.
Bible is a Christian term - it refers to either NT or OT or both.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#53380
May 27, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
You're stupid if you think that the history taught in schools and universities is 100 % correct and complete. LOL.
"There are many more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- William Shakespeare, "Hamlet", Act 1 scene 5.
I doubt if you've studied Shakespeare in school or elsewhere considering the poor command over English (vocab, presentation and grammar) that you have.
Hey dumbo,

I am not disagreeing with you. If you would even try to follow what the basic argument here you would note that.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#53381
May 27, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- Judaism is a RELIGION it is NOT a TRIBE and it has NEVER been a TRIBE. There are no TRIBES called Judaism.
Frijoles---Judaism is a tribal religion.
HughBe--- Let me explain your words to YOU. Being a TRIBAL religion does NOT make it a TRIBE, Einstein. It means that the religion BELONGS to the TRIBE.
HughBe---Explain the nation of Israel concept that you speak of.
Frijoles--- It is only intended for a group of people.
HughBe--- Noted. Support.
Frijoles---Its tied to a homeland, has a special language, and its own sacred history.
HughBe--- So what? What language is the special one that you talk of? Is French special? How many languages are there in the world?
How many of them are special?
Again, explain the nation of Israel concept. You have not so as yet.
Frijoles---Jews call themselves "a people".
HughBe--- So do Americans wherever they are in the world.
Frijoles---And there are patterns of descent that depend on lineaty
HughBe The pattern of descent and linearity is all about RACE and NOT a religion called Judaism.
There is no descent in JUDAISM.
Whatever

moving on...

“Love comes in every shade”

Since: May 13

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#53382
May 27, 2013
 
lot of misinformation ere

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#53383
May 27, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Frijoles-- personally I dont accept that megillah(Esther) as history.
HughBe--- List the reasons why that is so.
Frijoles---Because I see it as LITERATURE, not HISTORY
HughBe--- So, you see it as literature and in your IGNORANT world history is not literature. I see.
HughBe---Do you celebrate Purim?
Frijoles---I do celebrate Purim
HughBe---Given that the story of Esther is FICTIONAL and not HISTORICAL what justification is there for you to celebrate it?
Why do you and members of Judaism CELEBRATE a LIE.
Are the sheep told that Esther did NOT happen it is just a fable?
Your celebration makes no sense but then again very little of what you believe do.
Do you read the book of Esther online?
Because we dont need to accept it as literally true in the historical sense to get meaning out of it (second time)

you are truely an idiot

moving on

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#53384
May 27, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Again is Esther found in Books?
Do YOU study Esther from a scroll at home?
How old is your scroll?
I made no mention of the Old Testament.
No, I only read in the synagogue.

I am only speaking from my experience

Since it is me, that we are speaking with, my experience is valid

Mdaver?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#53385
May 27, 2013
 
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/holidays/Jewi...

The Scroll of Esther, known as the Megillah, is chanted in the synagogue on the eve of Purim and again the next morning.

It is the last of the five scrolls that form part of the third division of the Bible, known as the Ketuvim, or Writings.
former res

Cheshire, CT

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#53386
May 27, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
Former---There are those items whose evidence I choose to accept as do most folks.
HughBe--- In other words YOU do no VERIFICATION as you previously claimed. Instead you accept by FAITH.
Not faith as there is ample evidence for historical events.

Ever been to a museum? You may not have them in your land of weed and coffee.
HughBe wrote:
Former--And then there are stories devoid of evidence (like your god) that I choose to reject.
HughBe--- Give me YOUR evidence for space travel and Columbus.
Are you admitting you have no evidence for your god?

I accept you apology and unconditional surrender.

For your punishment, you will serve as my personal butler for 6 months. Now go head and answer the door please.
HughBe wrote:
Former--To each his own my friend.
HughBe--- Correct, you put down things that you do not believe on the basis that there in no evidence and yet you embrace things without evidence perhaps because it makes you feel special.
I do not try to put down the beliefs of others - only those who are rude and over-bearing on the subject. Such as yourself. All due respect mon of course.

Remember, it's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
HughBe wrote:
Former---I was using the library/Dewey Decimal definition. We were all raised on that system here in the US.(Not the Huggybear system..)
HughBe--- All should seek to improve. I have given you the better system. Use it.
All of our great libraries are based on Dewey Decimal.

Your world of muddled thinking and cognitive sloth is based on your own sad little belief system of homophobia and allowing others to do your thinking for you. Those who came before you.
HughBe wrote:
HughBe --In Jamaica it would be in the RELIGIOUS section. Does that tell you that religion is FICTION?
HughBe--- But is religion FICTION? The rituals etc. that are performed in churches, synagogues and mosques are they REAL or FICTIONAL?
Former--if you look at the definition of religion:
"(1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices"
It sounds more like personal philosophy than anything else.
HughBe--- It has PRACTICE as well.
Practice does not perfect, it makes permanent.

Practice is only positive if that which is being practiced is correct and true.

And note that religious practice is based on religious beliefs/faith.

Again, nothing about facts or reality. It exist solely in your minds.
HughBe wrote:
Former---Not so much about facts or reality.
HughBe--- The things DONE are REAL. They are NOT philosophy.
You have not one shred of evidence to support this statement.

It lives only in your mind.

Why do you reject the concept of faith?

Why do you claim evidence when there is none?
HughBe wrote:
Former---So you are not infallible.
HughBe--- Mere man and yet a god among men.
A legend in your own mind.

The same place where your god exists. The only place where he exists.

xxoo

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#53387
May 27, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Bible is a Christian term - it refers to either NT or OT or both.
So, according to you the Christian Bible (OT and NT) is false history, while the Tanakh is factual - is this what you're suggesting?

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