Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 71939 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#53340 May 27, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Another lesson for the day but first I have noted your qualification of Judaism i.e. "is tribal in the sense".
Lesson, Judaism is a RELIGION it is NOT a TRIBE and it has NEVER been a TRIBE. There are no TRIBES called Judaism.
Explain the nation of Israel concept that you speak of.
Judaism is a tribal religion. It is only intended for a group of people. Its tied to a homeland, has a special language, and its own sacred history. Jews call themselves "a people". And there are patterns of descent that depend on lineaty.

These are all characteristics of tribal religions, cross--culturally. If you have further questions about this fact, consult your nearest anthropologist.(You know, the ones in the ANTHROPOLOGY DEPARTMENT, not the Lit department)

Since: May 13

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#53341 May 27, 2013
The dunce is online. LOL.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#53342 May 27, 2013
To the dunce:

1 + 2 =?

How many consonants are there in the word abracadabra?

(smiles)

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#53343 May 27, 2013
Literature on anthropology and space science is freely available online. LOL.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53344 May 27, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Frijoles-- personally I dont accept that megillah(Esther) as history.
HughBe--- List the reasons why that is so.
Do you celebrate Purim?
Do the Jews who celebrate the Feast of Purim celebrate a LIE?
OUTSTANDING matters--
do you read Esther from a scroll?
Is Esther in books?
Because I see it as LITERATURE, not HISTORY

I do celebrate Purim

GO back and read the posts between FR and I about how just because something is literature, it still can have meaning.

Furthermore, I know you have been "properly educated" but I recommend you read what the other properly educated anthropologists have to say on this matter as well.

http://www.colorado.edu/ReligiousStudies/cher...
RELIGION AS A CULTURAL SYSTEM:
THE THEORY OF CLIFFORD GEERTZ

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#53345 May 27, 2013
Bye, retard.

He wants a handsome boy to f..., I guess.

(smiles)

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53346 May 27, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
do you read Esther from a scroll?
Is Esther in books?
we read Esther in the native Hebrew in synagogue out of a scroll
I dont bother with what you call the OT - so I am only speaking from my own experience.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53347 May 27, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
Literature on anthropology and space science is freely available online. LOL.
"Literature on" implies either critique or discipline specific (e.g. scientific) literature.

Hughbe is trying to make the claim that professional Historians accept the Bible as true history. Thats a different usage.

I use the term Scientific literature all the time. That implies peer review and professional methodology.

Since: May 13

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#53348 May 27, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

"Literature on" implies either critique or discipline specific (e.g. scientific) literature.

I use the term Scientific literature all the time.

That implies peer review and professional methodology.
Why're you simply posting nonsense and dragging on with this most trivial point when the meaning is crystal clear?

You've failed to get his logic.

He's correct in a sweeping sort of way.

The word literature can mean many things in different contexts and does not necessarily refer to language studies as say for example studying Macbeth as part of English Literature.

Besides, research findings and discussions in any technical or non-technical subject are conducted in a language where use of vocabulary, alphabetical symbols, rules of grammar, correct spelling, etymology and the like are used freely and all throughout and without these language inputs they'd be no thoughts, no research, no science, no math, no medicine, no Macbeth and no history.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#53349 May 27, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Hughbe is trying to make the claim that professional Historians accept the Bible as true history.
All of it is not false.

Biblical narratives dealing with religious personages, places, climate, geography, battles fought, customs, families, clans, kings, dwelling places and the like are part of religious history.

Metaphysics found in bible is beyond the scope of science or history.

Formal history taught in academic institutions invariably deals with highly selective phases of human history and here too the conclusions drawn are, on many occasions, based on the most flimsy scraps of evidence and then they build up a tall hypothesis, make misleading surmises or digress a lot from the actual event. It's a highly incomplete subject like any other.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53350 May 27, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- How did you verify that Christopher Columbus existed? Was it via time travel?
How did you verify that men went to the moon?
Did you go and examine the evidence on the moon?
There are those items whose evidence I choose to accept as do most folks.

And then there are stories devoid of evidence (like your god) that I choose to reject.

To each his own my friend.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- Here is HughBe's system. Literature is any book, article etc. on a subject including poems, science and history.
You are using a different definition of the word.

Yes broadly speaking, literature can refer to material on most any subject.

I was using the library/Dewey Decimal definition. We were all raised on that system here in the US.(Not the Huggybear system..)
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe---Master in Science degree.
Healthcare-related.
HughBe--- So, are you a Grind-ae-cologist?
Family practice, all ages, all areas.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe --In Jamaica it would be in the RELIGIOUS section. Does that tell you that religion is FICTION?
HughBe--- But is religion FICTION? The rituals etc. that are performed in churches, synagogues and mosques are they REAL or FICTIONAL?
if you look at the definition of religion:

"(1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices"

It sounds more like personal philosophy than anything else.

Not so much about facts or reality.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former--I believe you're thinking of the writer of the James Bond stories who had a home there as well if I'm not mistaken. Ian Fleming.
HughBe--- I did not need wiki, you are correct and I made a mistake. I know both names.
So you are not infallible.

How refreshing.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#53351 May 27, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
But it is what makes you pay taxes correct?
You seriously don't recall why I pay my taxes?

I'll invite you to read back.

Getting tired of repeating myself.

Hint: What would happen to me if I did not pay my taxes?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53352 May 27, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
Why're you simply posting nonsense and dragging on with this most trivial point when the meaning is crystal clear?
You've failed to get his logic.
He's correct in a sweeping sort of way.
The word literature can mean many things in different contexts and does not necessarily refer to language studies as say for example studying Macbeth as part of English Literature.
Besides, research findings and discussions in any technical or non-technical subject are conducted in a language where use of vocabulary, alphabetical symbols, rules of grammar, correct spelling, etymology and the like are used freely and all throughout and without these language inputs they'd be no thoughts, no research, no science, no math, no medicine, no Macbeth and no history.
You fail to follow his argument.

He is trying to make the claim that modern day historians accept Biblical History as truth.

He is doing that by relaxing the standards of truth but pretending that the discipline of History is just another type of Literature studies, instead of being a discipline in its own right.

If you continue to read him, he is claiming that since the Bible claims many people witnessed a particular event, it HAD to be true - ignoring the application of universally acceptable Historical methods of investigation within the discipline which would assert OTHERWISE.

This is not a trivial matter. This is HUGBE acting like a fundamentalist, a flat earther....

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53353 May 27, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>

Formal history taught in academic institutions invariably deals with highly selective phases of human history and here too the conclusions drawn are, on many occasions, based on the most flimsy scraps of evidence and then they build up a tall hypothesis, make misleading surmises or digress a lot from the actual event. It's a highly incomplete subject like any other.
Thank you for your opinion.

Watch your step. I would hate to see you fall off the end of the earth as well.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#53354 May 27, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

He is trying to make the claim that modern day historians accept Biblical History as truth.
By Bible do you mean NT or the Tanakh?

Whatever, much of the narratives in both books is historical and we often read about new archeological finds that corroborate its claims - nations, important people, customary practices, tombs, etc, have been verified by archeological evidence.

Noted historians like Sir William Ramsay, historian A N Sherwin and others accept large parts of biblical history as true.

The metaphysical aspects cannot be verified.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53355 May 27, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.
I don't want your bottom or any other part of your body.
You can share your bottom with Former and Frijoles. I guess they'd be interested.
HughBe --- Best regards, sweetie and much love from my bottom, of my heart.

Joel----LOL. I don't want your bottom or any other part of your body.

Hugh--- I believe anything that you say, dear.

Joel----You can share your bottom with Former and Frijoles. I guess they'd be interested.

HughBe--- No guessing needed, they have hungered and thirsted for the black hole.

Recall both are scientists and both are masturbators meaning they have masters degrees.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#53356 May 27, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

He is doing that by relaxing the standards of truth but pretending that the discipline of History is just another type of Literature studies, instead of being a discipline in its own right.
Analytical methods apply to both fields of study - Lit and History - and language as a medium of thought and communication is common to both.

So, there are overlaps.

Anyway, in order to understand the civilizations mentioned in the bible, one first needs to read it like a story or a literary piece of work before attempting to verify any of its claims referring to places, personalities, monuments, tombs, customs, etc.

So, I don't see much of a contradiction.

When I studied Shakespeare in school as part of English Lit, we read through most of his important works and analyzed them through the lens of language appreciation but later we also made a study of the history found in it as part of the English Literature project. Julius Cesar is one such example.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#53357 May 27, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
I was under the impression that you simply adored your size - all 14" of it - and that you were proud of your jet-black skin.
Correct me, if I'm wrong.
(smiles)
Joel-- Do you regularly go to a salon for a dick-cure ...

HughBe--- Would that be a cure for size or colour?

Joel---I was under the impression that you simply adored your size - all 14" of it - and that you were proud of your jet-black skin.

Hugh--- size could be increased but the colour would never be changed. I adore my colour and that is no BS. Truthfully, I would rank black and brown to be optimum colours with others coming after.

Joel---Correct me, if I'm wrong.

Hugh-- see above.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#53358 May 27, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Thank you for your opinion.

Watch your step. I would hate to see you fall off the end of the earth as well.
You're stupid if you think that the history taught in schools and universities is 100 % correct and complete. LOL.

"There are many more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

- William Shakespeare, "Hamlet", Act 1 scene 5.

I doubt if you've studied Shakespeare in school or elsewhere considering the poor command over English (vocab, presentation and grammar) that you have.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#53359 May 27, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

If you continue to read him, he is claiming that since the Bible claims many people witnessed a particular event, it HAD to be true - ignoring the application of universally acceptable Historical methods of investigation within the discipline which would assert OTHERWISE.
So, historians would need video or photographic or minutes-of-the -meeting kind of evidence to believe the eye-witness accounts of a particular ancient event. LOL.

You're stupid.

Eye-witness accounts may be true and can be labelled subjective evidence.

Even in this hi tech age many of us are direct witness to many intriguing, funny, sporting, aesthetic, political, family or paranormal events that are not written about or not recorded on cam or photographed.

The principle is important not the details or the way it is explained. For example, most scientists claim that insentient matter is capable of manifesting sentience, or that an entity of lower information content is capable of giving rise to an entity characterized by a higher degree of information content or that random movements can produce order and so on. These airy claims can be dismissed outright as the innate logical principles are wrong and besides there's no proof to corroborate any of this.

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