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Voluntarist

United States

#52801 May 19, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Not unlike nice folks like Timothy McVeigh.
He isn't with us anymore.
Ted Kaczynski seemed a smart fellow but felt an "otherness" and
preferred to live off the grid and to march to his own drummer.
Many of these folks also seem to hold a lot of resentment against society, the government, technology, whatever.
Reminds of a quote from "The Wild One" (1953) with Marlin Brando:
Mildred: Hey Johnny, what are you rebelling against?
Johnny: Whadda you got?
A considerable amount of credible circumstantial evidence
suggests that Theodore Kaczynski , also known as the Unabomber,
participated in CIA-sponsored MKUltra experiments conducted at
Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of
1962.[75] During World War II, Henry Murray, the lead researcher
in the Harvard experiments, served with the Office of Strategic
Services (OSS), which was a forerunner of the CIA. Murray applied
for a grant funded by the United States Navy , and his Harvard
stress experiments strongly resembled those run by the OSS.[75]
Beginning at the age of sixteen, Kaczynski participated along with
twenty-one other undergraduate students in the Harvard
experiments, which have been described as "disturbing" and
"ethically indefensible." [75][76]
Merry Prankster Ken Kesey, author of One Flew Over the
Cuckoo's Nest, volunteered for MKUltra experiments involving LSD
and other psychedelic drugs at the Veterans Administration
Hospital in Menlo Park while he was a student at nearby Stanford
University . Kesey's experiences while under the influence of LSD
inspired him to promote the drug outside the context of the
MKUltra experiments, which influenced the early development of
hippie culture.[77][78]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltr...
Voluntarist

United States

#52802 May 19, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
The major difference between your view and mine (and probably 98% of the rest of society) is that you feel an injustice because there is some type of implicit contract between the government and the people of which you never consented to.
Therefore, in your view, that contract is invalid (or, in your words - never a contract in the first place since it lacked articulation and/or your participation in all 4 crucial elements)
Others such as me understand that contract as a public contract, not a private contract. That is we subcontract (no pun intended) portions of the articulation AND acceptance to our agents (i.e. our elected officials and our staff (agencies such as IRS, legal system etc etc).
So it is not a question of contract, its the fundamental question of whether you recognize our form of government or not. So far, the vibes I get from you is that you do not.
So in other words it's not based on any factual evidence, it's faith in government.
If you want to live that way that's fine with me, it's when you force others into your faith that I have a problem with.
Voluntarist

United States

#52803 May 19, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't let it get to that point.
Do you not speed in your car due to force?
Or to keep from getting a ticket and increased insurance premiums?
You don't let it get to that point but you know that the gun is there.

Define speed?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#52804 May 19, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
So in other words it's not based on any factual evidence, it's faith in government.
If you want to live that way that's fine with me, it's when you force others into your faith that I have a problem with.
You are the only one here who defines the paradigm as faith in the illusory.

To the rest of us Joes, there is nothing illusory. There is also no boogieman.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#52805 May 19, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
A considerable amount of credible circumstantial evidence
suggests that Theodore Kaczynski , also known as the Unabomber,
participated in CIA-sponsored MKUltra experiments conducted at
Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of
1962.[75] During World War II, Henry Murray, the lead researcher
in the Harvard experiments, served with the Office of Strategic
Services (OSS), which was a forerunner of the CIA. Murray applied
for a grant funded by the United States Navy , and his Harvard
stress experiments strongly resembled those run by the OSS.[75]
Beginning at the age of sixteen, Kaczynski participated along with
twenty-one other undergraduate students in the Harvard
experiments, which have been described as "disturbing" and
"ethically indefensible." [75][76]
Merry Prankster Ken Kesey, author of One Flew Over the
Cuckoo's Nest, volunteered for MKUltra experiments involving LSD
and other psychedelic drugs at the Veterans Administration
Hospital in Menlo Park while he was a student at nearby Stanford
University . Kesey's experiences while under the influence of LSD
inspired him to promote the drug outside the context of the
MKUltra experiments, which influenced the early development of
hippie culture.[77][78]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltr...
My response:

Cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo..
Voluntarist

United States

#52806 May 19, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You are the only one here who defines the paradigm as faith in the illusory.
To the rest of us Joes, there is nothing illusory. There is also no boogieman.
If you have faith in an obligation which is not there you are just running on faith dear.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#52807 May 19, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
If you have faith in an obligation which is not there you are just running on faith dear.
Tilting at windmills as usual

You need to broaden your concerns to issues that actually exist.
Voluntarist

United States

#52808 May 19, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Tilting at windmills as usual
You need to broaden your concerns to issues that actually exist.
Oh it is a real issue because people are being imprisoned for victimless crime everyday leading to over crowded prisons and real violent offenders released.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52809 May 19, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Says nothing here about obligation;
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing new if you've been paying
attention.
I've repeatedly made reference to the force
of law and negative consequences of failing
to pay one's tax bill.
"awareness of what might happen", is the gun that I as referring to.
Where here do I state this an all-inclusive/exhaustive list of my reasons for paying my taxes?

I've cited other reasons before and my willingness to pay my obligations.

I don't feel as though I'm doing so under duress.

The feeling I get after filing every year is one of relief for having yet again finished up such an unpleasant task. That refers to the calculations and date entry more than sending the actual funds.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52810 May 19, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
A considerable amount of credible circumstantial evidence
suggests that Theodore Kaczynski , also known as the Unabomber,
participated in CIA-sponsored MKUltra experiments conducted at
Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of
1962.[75] During World War II, Henry Murray, the lead researcher
in the Harvard experiments, served with the Office of Strategic
Services (OSS), which was a forerunner of the CIA. Murray applied
for a grant funded by the United States Navy , and his Harvard
stress experiments strongly resembled those run by the OSS.[75]
Beginning at the age of sixteen, Kaczynski participated along with
twenty-one other undergraduate students in the Harvard
experiments, which have been described as "disturbing" and
"ethically indefensible." [75][76]
Merry Prankster Ken Kesey, author of One Flew Over the
Cuckoo's Nest, volunteered for MKUltra experiments involving LSD
and other psychedelic drugs at the Veterans Administration
Hospital in Menlo Park while he was a student at nearby Stanford
University . Kesey's experiences while under the influence of LSD
inspired him to promote the drug outside the context of the
MKUltra experiments, which influenced the early development of
hippie culture.[77][78]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltr...
The list is very long of the bad things we've done to one another.

Man's inhumanity to man
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52811 May 19, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
So in other words it's not based on any factual evidence, it's faith in government.
If you want to live that way that's fine with me, it's when you force others into your faith that I have a problem with.
"So it is not a question of contract, its the fundamental question of whether you recognize our form of government or not. So far, the vibes I get from you is that you do not. "

Do you recognize our form of gov't or not?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52812 May 19, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't let it get to that point but you know that the gun is there.
Define speed?
Do you generally obey traffic laws when driving?

Why or why not?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52813 May 19, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
If you have faith in an obligation which is not there you are just running on faith dear.
Can you honestly say you are getting absolutely no services or value from the gov't?

Granted, they get much more for the tax dollars in Europe, but we do get something.
Voluntarist

United States

#52814 May 19, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
"So it is not a question of contract, its the fundamental question of whether you recognize our form of government or not. So far, the vibes I get from you is that you do not. "
Do you recognize our form of gov't or not?
Our? who are you referring to?
Government doesn't exist, just a group of men and women.
Voluntarist

United States

#52815 May 19, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you honestly say you are getting absolutely no services or value from the gov't?
Granted, they get much more for the tax dollars in Europe, but we do get something.
It's not the service that I have a problem with it is the manner by which it is paid for.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#52816 May 20, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Our? who are you referring to?
Government doesn't exist, just a group of men and women.
Well, since you dont recognize our form of government, you loose the moral authority to criticize our tax system.

Because what you are in opposition isn't really our tax system but our form of government.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#52817 May 20, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not the service that I have a problem with it is the manner by which it is paid for.
Of which you do not have any authority to take issue with, being that you do not recognize our government.

Why do we have to clarify your thinking for you?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52818 May 20, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Our? who are you referring to?
Government doesn't exist, just a group of men and women.
I'll take that as a no.

Are you an American?

"Government doesn't exist" you say.

What are all those big buildings in DC?

There is no Supreme Court? Congress? Administration?

What do you mean it "doesn't exist?"
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52819 May 20, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you honestly say you are getting absolutely no services or value from the gov't?
Granted, they get much more for the tax dollars in Europe, but we do get something.
Doesn't the fact that you are getting some value in return
create an obligation on your part for compensation?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#52820 May 20, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Our? who are you referring to?
Government doesn't exist, just a group of men and women.
Do you generally obey traffic laws when driving?

Why or why not?

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