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JOEL

Mumbai, India

#51733 May 4, 2013
Laws and the state are mental constructs enforced through physical means.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#51734 May 4, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>

No that wasnt the question but now that you mention it, factually what is the state?
What is will?

A mental energy directed through the motor nerves that affects the effector muscles or organs.

You first conceive, then execute.

So, the state is not a mere abstraction, but a mental model with constitution, laws, rights, etc, that have their physical equivalents when applied or materialized through the physical instrumental parts. Even a geo-political border is first conceived in the mind and then the physical markers are laid out in precisely the same fashion as envisioned or desired by the mind.

To begin with everything is a mental construct that's later executed through the physical energy or via the physical instrumental parts when they become concrete facts.

You're a dunce.
Voluntarist

United States

#51735 May 4, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't believe in democracy, what form of gov't DO you believe in?
It seems you're saying only 100% consensus is acceptable. How do you get 100% to agree on ANYTHING?
Again, what form of gov't do you propose?
A voluntary society
Voluntarist

United States

#51736 May 4, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
What is will?
A mental energy directed through the motor nerves that affects the effector muscles or organs.
You first conceive, then execute.
So, the state is not a mere abstraction, but a mental model with constitution, laws, rights, etc, that have their physical equivalents when applied or materialized through the physical instrumental parts. Even a geo-political border is first conceived in the mind and then the physical markers are laid out in precisely the same fashion as envisioned or desired by the mind.
To begin with everything is a mental construct that's later executed through the physical energy or via the physical instrumental parts when they become concrete facts.
You're a dunce.
Thanks for your input, unfortunetely its irrelevant.

If its a mental construct then it has no standing in a court of law.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#51737 May 5, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>

If its a mental construct then it has no standing in a court of law.
ROFL.

So, you've proven that you're a double dunce.

You failed to understand my post.

You've not understood an iota of the logic I provided.

I elucidated the issue under consideration in my previous post and in general it explains every facet of human activity using the mind-matter model - mind conceives, physical instrumentation executes under guidance from the mind. Without the mind there will be no materialization of ideas.

Go back, if interested, and re-read my previous post.

You've got the IQ of a moron.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#51738 May 5, 2013
WHAT AILS INDIA?

1) Religion

2) Population

3) Corruption

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51739 May 5, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
An hoa is an example of a voluntary government.
HOAs are not full governments.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51740 May 5, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
No my question was what facts do you rely on that the constitition and code are applicable.
I am sorry, sir, but you seem to be the only one preoccupied with debating that issue. The rest of us have moved well past that, for the reasons we have posted time and time again.

You are living in your own private Idaho.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51741 May 5, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
An hoa is an example of a voluntary government.
What if the HOA is formed AFTER you move in but formed by a majority of the homeowners with rules that apply to all?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51742 May 5, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
A voluntary society
Anarchy.

Everybody does what they want, when they want, how they want.

You think everyone in society would do well with this sort of system?

You think every single one of us is a good, decent, hardworking person who only wants to do the right thing at all times?

And you also believe in the Easter Bunny?

Don't you think you sound a little on the silly side?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51743 May 5, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
As his popularity increases "main stream" media decreases.
Why do you assume that negative correlation?

There's never been a shortage of dummies in this society.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#51744 May 5, 2013
Ideas should materialized at the earliest and in the most efficient manner, otherwise we'll remain stuck forever in the world of abstractions or turn into arm-chair philosophers. Remember, we first conceive, then execute on any scale. The mentation precedes and at times it goes hand-in-hand with the materialization of ideas.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#51745 May 5, 2013
The mind-matter model applies to everything in life.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#51746 May 5, 2013
Our emotional states, too, are not mere sensations or feelings. They have a cognizing mental aspect as well as physical symptoms.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#51747 May 5, 2013
Mind-emotion-matter are inter-connected with each influencing the other in varying degrees.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51748 May 5, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
What if the HOA is formed AFTER you move in but formed by a majority of the homeowners with rules that apply to all?
Or what about the new owner of a house who is FORCED to agree to the provision in order to purchase his property? Shouldnt that new onwer be given a choice?

And before someone suggests that in that case, the new owner can always look elsewhere, doesnt that owner have the right to buy property anywhere if he/she can afford it?

And furthermore, HOA are not full governments. Residents still have to abide by local, state and federal laws, and depend on real government to provide them services. There are NO cases in the US where a HOA has legally superceded a real government (in fact there is actually case law here in CT that when a HOA restriction conflicts with local zoning law, in some cases the local zoning law actually supercedes the HOA ((i.e. the LESS restrictive zoning law.)
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#51750 May 5, 2013
THE CONCEPTUAL VERSUS THE TANGIBLE IN THE CONTEXT OF DEFINING THE STATE:

If the state does not have a tangible presence, then, is it simply a mental concept?

No.

If the state were to be a mere idea, then the physical reality of a state would not be possible.

We always see that an idea is usually accompanied by its material counterpart and with human beings we conceive an institution like say the judiciary and using our perceptive faculties and drawing on prevailing concrete example of successful judiciary in different parts of the world we intellectually frame laws and decide the hierarchy and so on and once this idea is in place we go about the task of putting it into practice using our physical energies, trained personnel and gross physical materials.

Similarly, an engineer first visualizes or conceives say an engine and works out the dynamics using mathematical physics and once this is satisfactorily in place he goes about building the engine using physical materials. He has to employ his intellectual faculties at all times to evaluate performance and to bring in remedies in the physical model if necessary.

Furthermore, if say we love someone then there are inter-linked psychological, emotional and physical mechanisms and symptoms at work.

So, we see that in life, everything is a mixture of mental and physical workings.

So, can a state be talked off in terms of both mental as well as physical aspects like say in terms of ideals, aspirations, feelings, morale, infrastructure, scientific achievements, cultural patterns, demographics, politico-judiciary system, genotype, phenotype, rivers, mountains, geo-political boundaries and the like?

Yes, a state is an idea as well as a concrete entity.

The idea keeps defining what a state is or what it should aspire to be like and the physical energy put forth via the physical instrumental parts is an act of materializing the mental ideas.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#51751 May 5, 2013
Quality is inversely proportional to quantity.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51752 May 5, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Or what about the new owner of a house who is FORCED to agree to the provision in order to purchase his property? Shouldnt that new onwer be given a choice?
And before someone suggests that in that case, the new owner can always look elsewhere, doesnt that owner have the right to buy property anywhere if he/she can afford it?
And the corresponding right to NOT buy it if the potential buyer doesn't like the rules, the neighborhood, the pig farm next door etc.

Caveat emptor. IMHO.

Balancing all parties' right is admittedly a tricky proposition. Which I guess goes without saying.
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
And furthermore, HOA are not full governments. Residents still have to abide by local, state and federal laws, and depend on real government to provide them services. There are NO cases in the US where a HOA has legally superceded a real government (in fact there is actually case law here in CT that when a HOA restriction conflicts with local zoning law, in some cases the local zoning law actually supercedes the HOA ((i.e. the LESS restrictive zoning law.)
That's interesting. I would have thought the other way around.

Grass height; hanging laundry out; house color etc...I thought that's why these groups exist: to create fussy rules for everyone.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51753 May 5, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
And the corresponding right to NOT buy it if the potential buyer doesn't like the rules, the neighborhood, the pig farm next door etc.
Caveat emptor. IMHO.
Balancing all parties' right is admittedly a tricky proposition. Which I guess goes without saying.
I agree to a point, but remember ATF is an absolutist on the issue of property rights. So if he believes in absolute property rights, to be consistent he should believe he has the right to buy into a a HOA area and NOT follow its rules if he chooses.

Which is counter to his ideal notion - because what if he CHOOSES to buy in, and abide by the rules BUT the guy next door lawfully acquires property and chooses not to join the HOA? How does that make an effective HOA? I suppose he could argue that his HOA could be geographically scattershot in implementation for that reason, but these organizations traditionally cover common infrastructure....so to be effective they would have to have a 100% buy in, and they do for that reason.

<quoted text>
former res wrote:
<quoted text>That's interesting. I would have thought the other way around.
Grass height; hanging laundry out; house color etc...I thought that's why these groups exist: to create fussy rules for everyone.
I think it is in case of overlapping jurisdictions, i.e. the town has subdivision regulations that say you can split the lots for development, but the local organization says you can not. However, if there is something in the deed, it might pre-empt BOTH groups. I am not 100% sure.

for stuff like grass height, that isnt usually addressed by town regs - except perhaps if they have nuisance ordinances

Its all pretty fascinating when you think about it.

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