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JOEL

Mumbai, India

#51386 Apr 30, 2013
"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

William Shakespeare

(smiles)
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#51387 Apr 30, 2013
Hueeeeeks, where art thou? Fiddling with your oijua board? Come online, Mon.

(laughs)
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#51388 Apr 30, 2013
typo - ouija, not oijua.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51389 Apr 30, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---I simply asked whether you find your evidence to be strong.
HughBe--- I have found that Frijoles encounters major challenges when it comes time for him to explain his words, thoughts or beliefs.
Rich words coming from the guy who evades any opportunity to post a developed set of thoughts in paragraph format

- choosing instead to ask preordained questions AND to pointlessly dissect other posts line by line - destroying the forest by dwelling on the trees
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51390 Apr 30, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
I would say besides scriptures which is reliable as hearsay i do not see any evidence of god but, I am in no way close minded to the thought that there is a supreme being,, a grand architect.
There is way too much in life to know and by the time you finish getting to know who you are dead
To paraphrase Socrates, "All I know is that I know nothing."

I too am open-minded which is why I resisted the atheist label for s long. It's too important to get this wrong.

But it's currently unknown and likely unknowable.

Two questions for you:

You say that "besides scripture" you see no evidence of god. Does this mean you consider scripture to be evidence of god?

And why do you consider scripture to be "reliable as hearsay?" How do you know these weren't written as fairy tales? Why couldn't they simply be ancient literature

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51391 Apr 30, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it's interesting that you think religion (and belief therein) is anything BUT complicated.(Though I don't really believe that's what you think.)
You said my evidence on the gun issue was weak. I simply asked whether you consider own evidence to be weak (or strong). Obviously you'd be using your own standards, not mine.
Equally obvious is the subjective nature of all of this.

Clearly you find your evidence strong enough to make you a believer - you binary switch of belief is in the "on" position.
I simply asked whether you find your evidence to be strong.
Do you not concur that the strength or weight of evidence (regardless of who is evaluating it) can be judged on continuum?
You DO understand that your earlier post had two topics - 1) nature of evidence and 2) my view on atheism

I never got to the second part. Here....

Under modern standards - feelings are weak evidence. Under relgious standards they are stronger. And from a personal perspective, I dont weigh much credibility with feelings, however experiences through meditation and the like are a whole other story...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51392 Apr 30, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Hey - I thought I was the one making it too "complicated!"
<quoted text>
Eat me.
:))
You were kind of making the earlier issue complicated once it was reduced to a set of standards. Standards simplify things.
However, the greater discussion, without getting bogged down to assigning probabilities, is a very complicated topic, oversimplified, IMO by certain fundies who like to babble scripture as the ANSWER to it all without examining the nature of the question and its underlying assumptions and pre conceived concepts.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51393 Apr 30, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Why couldn't they simply be ancient literature
Bingo!

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51394 Apr 30, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>

There is way too much in life to know and by the time you finish getting to know who you are dead
How conspiracists think

New research helps explain why some see elaborate government plots behind events like 9/11 or the Boston bombings

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/30/how_conspirac...

....Interestingly, belief in conspiracy theories has recently been linked to the rejection of science.... These findings are alarming because they show that conspiracy theories sow public mistrust and undermine democratic debate by diverting attention away from important scientific, political and societal issues.......

....Since a number of studies have shown that belief in conspiracy theories is associated with feelings of powerlessness, uncertainty and a general lack of agency and control, a likely purpose of this bias is to help people “make sense of the world” by providing simple explanations for complex societal events — restoring a sense of control and predictability. A good example is that of climate change: while the most recent international scientific assessment report (receiving input from over 2500 independent scientists from more than a 100 countries) concluded with 90 percent certainty that human-induced global warming is occurring, the severe consequences and implications of climate change are often too distressing and overwhelming for people to deal with, both cognitively as well as emotionally. Resorting to easier explanations that simply discount global warming as a hoax is then of course much more comforting and convenient psychologically. Yet, as Al Gore famously pointed out, unfortunately, the truth is not always convenient....

HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#51395 Apr 30, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
How strong is your evidence of this?
Or is it just a feeling you have?
I promise you this, send me a beautiful woman and she shall bear witness to the truth of which I speak.
Voluntarist

United States

#51396 Apr 30, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
To paraphrase Socrates, "All I know is that I know nothing."
I too am open-minded which is why I resisted the atheist label for s long. It's too important to get this wrong.
But it's currently unknown and likely unknowable.
Two questions for you:
You say that "besides scripture" you see no evidence of god. Does this mean you consider scripture to be evidence of god?
And why do you consider scripture to be "reliable as hearsay?" How do you know these weren't written as fairy tales? Why couldn't they simply be ancient literature
Scripture would be little evidence but as evidence goes it still has value , just not much. The authors are dead so if using the rules of evidence in law there would be nobody alive today to lay the foundation to submit them as evidence.
Somebodies words could be used as evidence as long as they were witness to a particular event or could testify lets say that they knew a guy named jesus, first hand knowledge.

Scripture is reliable as hearsay because hearsay isnt reliable at all.

I dont know that they werent written as fairy tales as much as you dont know that they are based on real events recorded by witnesses.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#51397 Apr 30, 2013
JOEL wrote:
Hueeeeeks, where art thou? Fiddling with your oijua board? Come online, Mon.
(laughs)
I would rather fondle the opposite pole than to delve into such BS.

I would rather die than deal with any form of occultism.

I would rather to admire and stare at MY bamboo than to deal with the occult.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51398 Apr 30, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You DO understand that your earlier post had two topics - 1) nature of evidence and 2) my view on atheism
I never got to the second part. Here....
Under modern standards - feelings are weak evidence. Under relgious standards they are stronger. And from a personal perspective, I dont weigh much credibility with feelings, however experiences through meditation and the like are a whole other story...
I won't press further.

We all need our personal space and time and experiences.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#51399 Apr 30, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Why bother Frijoles with such issues when it's evident that he's a dogmatist and knows nothing about the reality via direct experiences.
When a man (Frijoles) says, as he once said to me many years ago, that the soul is the life-force or that the highest reality is the life-force take it for granted that he's an ignorant person and is simply quoting ignorant scripture.
Even those ignorant prophets who he reveres equated the highest reality with the life force and so they would not know that the life force is simply an aspect of the vital consciousness-force and manifests in a pentuple movement as it penetrates matter and besides those violent and shallow prophets were ignorant of the numerous supra-vital planes and had little knowledge of the infra-vital planes and of the true vital plane as well - their minor experiences extended to exclusively the lower vital planes of the adverse kind. LOL.
The words "internal logic" are invariably used by those who fail to explain their beliefs.
They escape being taken to task with this phrase "internal logic" which means actually means nothing - even an idiot or an insane man can say that his method has an "internal logic" knowable only to him or to people like him. LMAO.
See, instinct is exceeded by reason, reason is exceeded by intuition.
When an intuition is true it will, on close scrutiny, always be supported by instinct and reason from below with there being no contradictions.
Joel---The words "internal logic" are invariably used by those who fail to explain their beliefs.

Hugh--- You have made many good points including the above.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#51400 Apr 30, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Rich words coming from the guy who evades any opportunity to post a developed set of thoughts in paragraph format
- choosing instead to ask preordained questions AND to pointlessly dissect other posts line by line - destroying the forest by dwelling on the trees
noted
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51401 Apr 30, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Bingo!
I was thinking like Grimm's Fairy Tales.

If some made a religion out of one of them I bet you'd
have an opinion about that!
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51402 Apr 30, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
How conspiracists think
New research helps explain why some see elaborate government plots behind events like 9/11 or the Boston bombings
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/30/how_conspirac...
....Interestingly, belief in conspiracy theories has recently been linked to the rejection of science.... These findings are alarming because they show that conspiracy theories sow public mistrust and undermine democratic debate by diverting attention away from important scientific, political and societal issues.......
....Since a number of studies have shown that belief in conspiracy theories is associated with feelings of powerlessness, uncertainty and a general lack of agency and control, a likely purpose of this bias is to help people “make sense of the world” by providing simple explanations for complex societal events — restoring a sense of control and predictability. A good example is that of climate change: while the most recent international scientific assessment report (receiving input from over 2500 independent scientists from more than a 100 countries) concluded with 90 percent certainty that human-induced global warming is occurring, the severe consequences and implications of climate change are often too distressing and overwhelming for people to deal with, both cognitively as well as emotionally. Resorting to easier explanations that simply discount global warming as a hoax is then of course much more comforting and convenient psychologically. Yet, as Al Gore famously pointed out, unfortunately, the truth is not always convenient....
Reminded me of Obama's comment how certain folks "cling to their guns and religions." Or something to that affect.

Many of us have needs and we meet them in different ways.

http://www.ted.com/conversations/13778/what_i...

What is the purpose of religion?

Throughout the history of man, religion has been present. Religious beliefs have affected everything from personal ethics to national politics. It has been an integral part of many societies in our past and present. However the question remains:

What is the purpose of religion?

Religion has been presented to explain unknown intellectual problems (Comte, Tylor), to explain strong and abstract emotional feelings (Marett, Malinowski, Freud), to oppress social groups (Marx), to connect society (Durkheim), to explain arbitrary suffering (Weber), etc.
Many other purposes for religion have been theorized but no universal answer has been found.
Will a single answer ever be found? Is there only one answer?

Possible answers, further questions or any comments are welcome!
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51403 Apr 30, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Scripture would be little evidence but as evidence goes it still has value , just not much. The authors are dead so if using the rules of evidence in law there would be nobody alive today to lay the foundation to submit them as evidence.
Somebodies words could be used as evidence as long as they were witness to a particular event or could testify lets say that they knew a guy named jesus, first hand knowledge.
Good answer. We have no way of knowing either way.
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Scripture is reliable as hearsay because hearsay isnt reliable at all.
Great answer!
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
I dont know that they werent written as fairy tales as much as you dont know that they are based on real events recorded by witnesses.
Very true but the burden of showing relevance is not on me.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51404 Apr 30, 2013
"...belief in conspiracy theories is associated with feelings of powerlessness, uncertainty and a general lack of agency and control, a likely purpose of this bias is to help people “make sense of the world” by providing simple explanations for complex societal events — restoring a sense of control and predictability....."

Sounds familiar. Keep on posting!
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#51405 Apr 30, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Reminded me of Obama's comment how certain folks "cling to their guns and religions." Or something to that affect.
Many of us have needs and we meet them in different ways.
http://www.ted.com/conversations/13778/what_i...
What is the purpose of religion?
Throughout the history of man, religion has been present. Religious beliefs have affected everything from personal ethics to national politics. It has been an integral part of many societies in our past and present. However the question remains:
What is the purpose of religion?
Religion has been presented to explain unknown intellectual problems (Comte, Tylor), to explain strong and abstract emotional feelings (Marett, Malinowski, Freud), to oppress social groups (Marx), to connect society (Durkheim), to explain arbitrary suffering (Weber), etc.
Many other purposes for religion have been theorized but no universal answer has been found.
Will a single answer ever be found? Is there only one answer?
Possible answers, further questions or any comments are welcome!
The purpose of religion is to explain the purpose of life. The purpose of life is life. God created mankind because she was lonely and it is Gods purpose for all of us to live past this earthly life and live forever in Heaven and then inherit the earth in the resurrection.

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