Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 20 comments on the Jun 21, 2008, Newsday story titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#50986 Apr 24, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Frijoles---post 50951, doesnt it display?
HughBe--- No Mr. Flocker meaning not on the link that YOU gave. It is found on the PREVIOUS page.
No need to be indignant. That is a topix flaw, not a personal error. I used their button. Besides, if you looked at the URL it cited the post by number.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#50987 Apr 24, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

Frijoles--Why do you consider interracial marriages an inverse indicator of discrimination? Where is the empirical justification for that notion?
Note - the term empirical. I am not interested in theories.
HughBe--- My dear Flocker, I made no such comment. My focus was on the fact that in Brazil there are far more interracial marriages than in Israel. That was my focus.

I am NOW saying that in an environment where there is a high level of INTEGRATION by way of marriages then it stands to reason that DISCRIMINATION cannot be as high as in an environment where SEGREGATION is HIGH as in the case of Israel.
Get it?
"It stands to reason..."

I do get it. You just provided me with a THEORY even though I requested you not to.

I can make up theories too. That is isnt helpful.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#50988 Apr 24, 2013
I can easily make a counter claim that Intermarriage IS A RESULT of discrimination - i,e, those individuals feel compelled as a survival strategy

OR that there is NO correlation between discrimination and intermarriage

Thats why I asked for studies that actually made that linkage, if you were going to use it.

Anyone can blow hot air here.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#50989 Apr 24, 2013
and by the way, there is nothing inherently wrong with marriage to preserve ethnicity. It is only wrong if it translates into discrimination - which as a variable you have yet to define.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#50990 Apr 24, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
No need to be indignant. That is a topix flaw, not a personal error. I used their button. Besides, if you looked at the URL it cited the post by number.
Calm down, dear. The indignation is YOURS not mine.
Eric

South Elgin, IL

#50991 Apr 24, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

1.Multiracial Brazilians make up 42.6% of Brazil's population, 79.782 million people...
2. Multiracial Brazilians are mainly people of MIXED European, African, East Asian (mostly Japanese) and Amerindian ancestry.
According to Dr. Elhaik's research, almost all Jews are of mixed racial background. I think that has the Brazilian's beat by a long shot.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#50992 Apr 24, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
"It stands to reason..."
I do get it. You just provided me with a THEORY even though I requested you not to.
I can make up theories too. That is isnt helpful.
Son, I just NOW meaning today spoke about stands to reason. Originally I did NOT address the matter of DISCRIMINATION.

I want YOU to explain the following, "Multiracial Brazilians make up 42.6% of Brazil's population,"

Question, does "it stands to reason" that DISCRIMINATION cannot be as great as where there is a HIGH level of SEGREGATION as in ISRAEL?

If NOT explain how almost 50% of the Brazilian population is of MIXED RACE.

How did the MIXED race come about.

Try and ADDRESS my questions.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#50993 Apr 24, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
I can easily make a counter claim that Intermarriage IS A RESULT of discrimination - i,e, those individuals feel compelled as a survival strategy
OR that there is NO correlation between discrimination and intermarriage
Thats why I asked for studies that actually made that linkage, if you were going to use it.
Anyone can blow hot air here.
I am making no argument beyond what is REASONABLE and what is CONSISTENT with REALITY.

I leave the ABSURDITY to YOU.

In your argument did the one RACE FORCE another RACE to get married?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#50994 Apr 24, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
and by the way, there is nothing inherently wrong with marriage to preserve ethnicity. It is only wrong if it translates into discrimination - which as a variable you have yet to define.
Define ethnicity.

You are introducing new variables.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#50995 Apr 24, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Dr. Elhaik's research, almost all Jews are of mixed racial background. I think that has the Brazilian's beat by a long shot.
Thanks Eric. Now give me the RACIAL groups that Jews married plus the relevant percentages.

For example, 10% of Jews married BLACKS, 5 % married Indians etc.

Supply the link as well.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#50996 Apr 24, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Dr. Elhaik's research, almost all Jews are of mixed racial background. I think that has the Brazilian's beat by a long shot.
Eric---According to Dr. Elhaik's research, almost all Jews are of mixed racial background

HughBe---I am going to take my points and deal with them one-by-one with you.

Reconcile your claim that "almost ALL Jews are of mixed" RACE with the REALITY below.

How did this ALMOST ALL are of MIXED race come about? Was it via a policy or doctrine of SEGREGATION and DISCRIMINATION?

Explain the citation below.

"MANY Israeli Jews OPPOSE mixed relationships between Jewish women and Arab men. A 2007 opinion survey found that MORE than HALF of Israeli Jews believed intermarriage is equivalent to "NATIONAL TREASON"."

Question---Do MANY Jews OPPOSE interracial marriages? Is it more than 50%?

How widespread would be interracial marriages in such a situation?

Explain NATIONAL TREASON.
Eric

South Elgin, IL

#50997 Apr 24, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks Eric. Now give me the RACIAL groups that Jews married plus the relevant percentages.
For example, 10% of Jews married BLACKS, 5 % married Indians etc.
Supply the link as well.
What difference does it make so long as it's another racial group? That was your original position.
Eric

South Elgin, IL

#50998 Apr 24, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

How did this ALMOST ALL are of MIXED race come about? Was it via a policy or doctrine of SEGREGATION and DISCRIMINATION?
Explain the citation below.
"MANY Israeli Jews OPPOSE mixed relationships between Jewish women and Arab men. A 2007 opinion survey found that MORE than HALF of Israeli Jews believed intermarriage is equivalent to "NATIONAL TREASON"."
Question---Do MANY Jews OPPOSE interracial marriages? Is it more than 50%?
How widespread would be interracial marriages in such a situation?
Explain NATIONAL TREASON.
You see, Hugh, you are comparing apples and oranges. For Brazilians you are using racial make up. For Israelis you are using opinion.

If you compare the actual make up of Brazilians with the actual make up of Israelis, according to Dr. Elhaik the Israelis would have more racial mixing than the Brazilians.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#50999 Apr 24, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
You see, Hugh, you are comparing apples and oranges. For Brazilians you are using racial make up. For Israelis you are using opinion.
If you compare the actual make up of Brazilians with the actual make up of Israelis, according to Dr. Elhaik the Israelis would have more racial mixing than the Brazilians.
All Jews have mixed racial heritage as a result of the diaspora. Also, Rebekah, Leah and Rachel were Syrian and Josephs wife was Egyptian.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#51000 Apr 24, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
What difference does it make so long as it's another racial group? That was your original position.
Give me the RACIAL groups.

Give me the percentages.

After which I shall explain, the difference it makes.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#51001 Apr 24, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
You see, Hugh, you are comparing apples and oranges. For Brazilians you are using racial make up. For Israelis you are using opinion.
If you compare the actual make up of Brazilians with the actual make up of Israelis, according to Dr. Elhaik the Israelis would have more racial mixing than the Brazilians.
Please try and ADDRESS the points raised.

1.How did this ALMOST ALL are of MIXED race come about?

2.Was it via a policy or doctrine of SEGREGATION and DISCRIMINATION?

3.Explain the citation below.

"MANY Israeli Jews OPPOSE mixed relationships between Jewish women and Arab men. A 2007 opinion survey found that MORE than HALF of Israeli Jews believed intermarriage is equivalent to "NATIONAL TREASON"."

4.Question---Do MANY Jews OPPOSE interracial marriages? Is it more than 50%?

5.How widespread would there be interracial marriages in such a situation/belief system?

6.Explain NATIONAL TREASON.

_---------

Eric---For Israelis you are using opinion

HughBe--- Are you really saying that the opinions of the Israelis don't matter?

Will their opinion affect or influence their behaviour?

So, if you hold the opinion that something is TREASON to the United States of America will YOU engage in it?

When will you get serious?

rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#51002 Apr 24, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
post 50951
doesnt it display?
HughBe wrote:
Oh Eric, tell me the percentage of interracial marriages in Israel and compare it to the Brazilian situation.
Frijoles wrote:
Why do you consider interracial marriages an inverse indicator of discrimination? Where is the empirical justification for that notion?
Note - the term empirical. I am not interested in theories.
rabbee: well it does seem as if G-D, is being highly discriminatory. about who THEY are punishing, for not being true to THEM here in TheTorah. but i can assure you, it is not due to any racial discrimination. even if the world has the tendancy, to falsly claim it as such. maybe you should pray, that it does not get bad enough, for you to get sent into slavery too.
Voluntarist

United States

#51004 Apr 24, 2013
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Army civilian labor force, or with work
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51005 Apr 24, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Son, I just NOW meaning today spoke about stands to reason. Originally I did NOT address the matter of DISCRIMINATION.
I want YOU to explain the following, "Multiracial Brazilians make up 42.6% of Brazil's population,"
Question, does "it stands to reason" that DISCRIMINATION cannot be as great as where there is a HIGH level of SEGREGATION as in ISRAEL?
If NOT explain how almost 50% of the Brazilian population is of MIXED RACE.
How did the MIXED race come about.
Try and ADDRESS my questions.
Until you define your terms, your logic can not even be evaluated on the basis of such folkisms as "reasonable"

What exactly do you mean as discrimination? How do you measure it>?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51006 Apr 24, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Define ethnicity.
You are introducing new variables.
Actually I am not - you brought the notion into being by commenting on the various social groups in Israel. I could of used the more accurate term ethno-religious but I choose to throw you a softball in the inane hope you would know what to do with it.

SO lets ignore that term - it causes too much confusion on your behalf apparently

What are the groups that you are referring to within Israel with regard to mixing? Arabs vs Jews? Palestinians vs Israelis? Christians vs Jews vs Muslims?

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