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JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49645 Feb 26, 2013
I am thinking of my late biological parents, now. No matter how much they troubled me, I want the very best for them in the disembodied state. Take care dad and mom. Your loving son is about to take a big step in life very soon. Tina, my late sister - you, too, are in my thoughts and I will always remember you with great fondness despite the bitterness towards the end over the inheritance dispute. Peace to all of you.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49646 Feb 26, 2013
Good night.
Eric

Hoffman Estates, IL

#49647 Feb 26, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Education is merit-based and so there's no bar to entering IIT, or any other university provided one clears the entrance exams and is able to cope with the academic pressure once admitted to a professional college. Government and private scholarships are available aplenty for the economically weaker sections of society.
Goodness, high thinking, intelligence and class are innate in one's nature and have nothing to do with economic or educational status though in India we see that the poorer areas are zones of degradation and mass disorganization and they're adding to the mess with their flawed attitudes. Besides, I clearly stated in aprevious post and I add that most Indians, in India or abroad, rich or poor/educated or uneducated, are ill-bred and can hardly be called human beings.
That's fine for higher education, but what about education leading up to higher education? What is the quality of the education available to the lower socio-economic classes so that they may pass the entrance exams?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#49649 Feb 26, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
It's more than it, he confused the British culture in primis and then the Western culture as global outlook that the world has to attain to be considered as international citizens.
You are bringing up an interesting point.

Is there really such a thing as a global outlook / international citizen? Or is it always colored by somebodies subjective notion unconsciously colored by one's own national experience in some way, or in Joels case - a reaction/rejection to his host culture.

Call me tribal, but I dont think there is such a thing as a global outlook or culture. What do you think?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#49650 Feb 26, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Those few students who make it to the IITs, BITs, ISM, IIMs, IAS, AFMC, UICT, AIIMS and other prestigious universities in India have acadejmic merit whether they're rich or poor. Once admitted via an entrance exam, the government subsidizes the fees and gives away plenty of freebies to those who can't afford the education. Private donors also chip in.
Eric has a valid point (though I was headed there anyway). To make it to those qualifying exams, does one first have to rise up thru the ranks, and more significantly have the means and opportunity to rise up thru the ranks? Or could a very smart but undereducated person perform well on them?

From what you have described, your system might be better in at least one way than ours in that once there, scholarships are available.

However, the availability doesnt sound as democratic as our system, where we have community colleges, State universities, and Private universities and colleges, all fulfilling the needs of different economic backgrounds to some degree.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#49651 Feb 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You are bringing up an interesting point.
Is there really such a thing as a global outlook / international citizen? Or is it always colored by somebodies subjective notion unconsciously colored by one's own national experience in some way, or in Joels case - a reaction/rejection to his host culture.
Call me tribal, but I dont think there is such a thing as a global outlook or culture. What do you think?
Those terms are as true as is true the concept of race.

There is no such a thing as race, it's just a term with multi-definitions and several set of identifications.

The standards to define what race is depends from accademic backgrounds.

Cause of this, you can find a well defined group of people clustered with more than one race, if you pick the several definitions of race made by several people.

It's all subjective, variable with time and it won't lead to one way.

All in all what Joel says has no basis to stay on.

Hope it's clear what I said.
Voluntarist

United States

#49652 Feb 26, 2013
A shining example of government brain washing

Robert Gibbs: I was
told not to
'acknowledge' drones
By KATIE GLUECK | 2/25/13 8:14 AM EST
Former White House press secretary
Robert Gibbs says he was instructed
when he joined the administration not to
“acknowledge” the existence of America’s
drones program.
“When I went through the process of
becoming press secretary, one of the first
things they told me was, you’re not even
to acknowledge the drone program,” he
said Sunday on MSNBC’s “Up With Chris
Hayes.”“You’re not even to discuss that it
exists.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/02/gibbs-i...
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49653 Feb 26, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>

What is the quality of the education available to the lower socio-economic classes so that they may pass the entrance exams?
The scheduled castes and scheduled tribes - the exploited backward castes - have reservation going for them in education and jobs in government institutions as a way of bringing them on par with the progressive sections of society. Total seats reservation is around half the number and so seats available for general category candidates is half and the teeming popluation makes the competition severe. So, with such a big chunk of seats being gifted away at far lower qualifying standards to poorly educated and often to intellectually deficient students merit takes a backseat on the whole and the candidates admitted to these national institutions on the basis of reservation usually fail to graduate on their own steam and here too have to be gifted grace marks to make their academic record look acceptable. Those who've been given jobs on the basis of caste-based reservation underperform and drag the standards down.

If at all the government wishes to serve the exploited backward castes, a parallel system of education and employment should be opened up to cater to their special needs and as such valuable seats in prestigious universities and companies would be thrown open to the public on the strict criterion of merit.

Quality of education?

Pathetic in most cases at the high school and university level except in some private schools and universities like the IIT. More on this later.
Voluntarist

United States

#49654 Feb 26, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
The scheduled castes and scheduled tribes - the exploited backward castes - have reservation going for them in education and jobs in government institutions as a way of bringing them on par with the progressive sections of society. Total seats reservation is around half the number and so seats available for general category candidates is half and the teeming popluation makes the competition severe. So, with such a big chunk of seats being gifted away at far lower qualifying standards to poorly educated and often to intellectually deficient students merit takes a backseat on the whole and the candidates admitted to these national institutions on the basis of reservation usually fail to graduate on their own steam and here too have to be gifted grace marks to make their academic record look acceptable. Those who've been given jobs on the basis of caste-based reservation underperform and drag the standards down.
If at all the government wishes to serve the exploited backward castes, a parallel system of education and employment should be opened up to cater to their special needs and as such valuable seats in prestigious universities and companies would be thrown open to the public on the strict criterion of merit.
Quality of education?
Pathetic in most cases at the high school and university level except in some private schools and universities like the IIT. More on this later.
The less educated folks make better slaves don't you agree?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#49655 Feb 26, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
The less educated folks make better slaves don't you agree?
Is that your personal secret for professional success?
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49656 Feb 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

To make it to those qualifying exams, does one first have to rise up thru the ranks, and more significantly have the means and opportunity to rise up thru the ranks?

Or could a very smart but undereducated person perform well on them?
To perform well in the IIT JEE, the toughest entrance exam in the world, one has to have a very firm grasp over the fundamental concepts in math, physics and chem.

High school syllabus is insufficient.

The questions are usually based on topics taught in Grades 11 and 12 in a sketchy manner and more in detail in university and are deep, tricky and combine several concepts.

In the past, during my times, the degree of difficulty was really high and the questions were so tough that most students would fail the first time and only after a second or third attempt clear the entrance if they managed to get a decent score.

The IIT JEE topper usually scored around 85% or so in all the 3 papers, while the candidate with an AIR (all India rank) say 2000 would score a measly 10 or 12 marks or lower. The rest of the candidates numbering say around 400,000 or more would score 3, 4, 5 or 0 marks and would be eliminated.

Later, the brutal style of questioning was changed under political pressure and on account of a storm of protests from the parents.

The IIT JEE is usually taken by candidates at the end of the course work of Grade 12.

The questions are quite on par and at times a bit tougher than the questions asked in the IMO (International Math Olympiad), IPhO and IChO. The IIT JEE questions are penetrating and most university students would find them difficult to answer.

I began preparing for the IIT JEE in Grade 9 by enrolling for a postal training program with a well-known private coaching institute whose faculty were drawn from ex-scientists and ex-professors. They posted great notes on the basics of each topic, worked out a few examples and drafted a series of really difficult questions for solving. We'd solve these exercises and mail them to the institute and the corrected sheets would be posted back with remarks and better solutions, if need be. Besides, I referred to several well-known university level text books like say Halliday & Resnick, Irodov, Sarin & Sarin, Hall and Knight, Morrison & Boyd, etc when in Grade 10, 11 & 12 as part of my IIT JEE preparation. It was all hardwork and tears.

The ISC (Grade 12) board exams were a breeze and then the main test of one's knowledge in math, physics and chem which was the IIT JEE approached.

A week before the entrance we went mad and became frantic as we revised the concepts and rushed off to the residences of scientists and professors known to our families for extra help and tips. The day of the IIT JEE, I was nervous and revised the main concepts and was driven to the test center alloted to me by my Dad and Mom who were equally nervous. Around 400,000 students all over India took the IIT JEE on that day and the atmosphere was tense. Each paper lasted several hours with a small break in between. A huge gang from Cathedral appeared for the IIT JEE. The results were declared after a month and the pic of the IIT JEE first ranker was published in leading newspapers by the various coaching academies. I ranked in the first 250 in India and could have entered a select discipline in engineering like electrical, aeropspace, chemical etc but I was firm about wanting to study pure science and so rejected the offer of a seat in engineering.

The ISC board syllabus is the best in India though the physics syllabus in the CBSE board is great. Teachers in India lack the basic skills in many ways and without being trained well by the school teachers and without enrolling with a private tutoring academy it would be almost impossible to clear the IIT JEE. Other entrances are not as difficult as the IIT JEE but students need special coaching.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49657 Feb 26, 2013
REPLY TO FRIJOLES:

FRIJOLES: Could a very smart but undereducated person perform well on them (entrance tests)?

JOEL: To perform well in the IIT JEE, the toughest entrance exam in the world, one has to have a very firm grasp over the fundamental concepts in math, physics and chem.

High school syllabus is insufficient.

The questions are usually based on topics taught in Grades 11 and 12 in a sketchy manner and more in detail in university and are deep, tricky and combine several concepts.

In the past, during my times, the degree of difficulty was really high and the questions were so tough that most students would fail the first time and only after a second or third attempt clear the entrance if they managed to get a decent score.

The IIT JEE topper usually scored around 85% or so in all the 3 papers, while the candidate with an AIR (all India rank) say 2000 would score a measly 10 or 12 marks or lower. The rest of the candidates numbering say around 400,000 or more would score 3, 4, 5 or 0 marks and would be eliminated.

Later, the brutal style of questioning was changed under political pressure and on account of a storm of protests from the parents.

The IIT JEE is usually taken by candidates at the end of the course work of Grade 12.

The questions are quite on par and at times a bit tougher than the questions asked in the IMO (International Math Olympiad), IPhO and IChO. The IIT JEE questions are penetrating and most university students would find them difficult to answer.

I began preparing for the IIT JEE in Grade 9 by enrolling for a postal training program with a well-known private coaching institute whose faculty were drawn from ex-scientists and ex-professors. They posted great notes on the basics of each topic, worked out a few examples and drafted a series of really difficult questions for solving. We'd solve these exercises and mail them to the institute and the corrected sheets would be posted back with remarks and better solutions, if need be. Besides, I referred to several well-known university level text books like say Halliday & Resnick, Irodov, Sarin & Sarin, Hall and Knight, Morrison & Boyd, S L Loney etc when in Grade 10, 11 & 12 as part of my IIT JEE preparation. It was all hardwork and tears.

The ISC (Grade 12) board exams were a breeze and then the main test of one's knowledge in math, physics and chem which was the IIT JEE approached.

A week before the entrance we went mad and became frantic as we revised the concepts and rushed off to the residences of scientists and professors known to our families for extra help and tips. The day of the IIT JEE, I was nervous and revised the main concepts and was driven to the test center alloted to me by my Dad and Mom who were equally nervous. Around 400,000 students all over India took the IIT JEE on that day and the atmosphere was tense. Each paper lasted several hours with a small break in between. A huge gang from Cathedral appeared for the IIT JEE. The results were declared after a month and the pic of the IIT JEE first ranker was published in leading newspapers by the various coaching academies. I ranked in the first 250 in India and could have entered a select discipline in engineering like electrical, aeropspace, chemical etc but I was firm about wanting to study pure science and so rejected the offer of a seat in engineering.

The ISC board syllabus is the best in India though the physics syllabus in the CBSE board is great. Teachers in India lack the basic skills in many ways and without being trained well by the school teachers and without enrolling with a private tutoring academy it would be almost impossible to clear the IIT JEE. Other entrances are not as difficult as the IIT JEE but students need special coaching.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49658 Feb 26, 2013
Oops sorry for the double post.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49659 Feb 26, 2013
GLOBAL OUTLOOK:

Having a global outlook means drawing the best elements from several cultures and integrating that into a unified system for best results. The supramental yoga is based on the unified approach.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49660 Feb 26, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>

The less educated folks make better slaves don't you agree?
In a way, everyone is a slave of the senses, of superficial mental formations, of heredity, of environmental impulses, of peer pressure and of those we admire or wish to be like.

Do less educated folks make better slaves?

Not necessarily.

It all depends on how clear-thinking one is and how integrated the personality is with the universal forces.

Educated people may be as deluded and as non-discriminating as the lesser educated ones.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#49661 Feb 26, 2013
JOEL wrote:
REPLY TO FRIJOLES:
FRIJOLES: Could a very smart but undereducated person perform well on them (entrance tests)?
JOEL: To perform well in the IIT JEE, the toughest entrance exam in the world, one has to have a very firm grasp over the fundamental concepts in math, physics and chem.
High school syllabus is insufficient.
The questions are usually based on topics taught in Grades 11 and 12 in a sketchy manner and more in detail in university and are deep, tricky and combine several concepts.
In the past, during my times, the degree of difficulty was really high and the questions were so tough that most students would fail the first time and only after a second or third attempt clear the entrance if they managed to get a decent score.
The IIT JEE topper usually scored around 85% or so in all the 3 papers, while the candidate with an AIR (all India rank) say 2000 would score a measly 10 or 12 marks or lower. The rest of the candidates numbering say around 400,000 or more would score 3, 4, 5 or 0 marks and would be eliminated.
Later, the brutal style of questioning was changed under political pressure and on account of a storm of protests from the parents.
The IIT JEE is usually taken by candidates at the end of the course work of Grade 12.
The questions are quite on par and at times a bit tougher than the questions asked in the IMO (International Math Olympiad), IPhO and IChO. The IIT JEE questions are penetrating and most university students would find them difficult to answer.
I began preparing for the IIT JEE in Grade 9 by enrolling for a postal training program with a well-known private coaching institute whose faculty were drawn from ex-scientists and ex-professors. They posted great notes on the basics of each topic, worked out a few examples and drafted a series of really difficult questions for solving. We'd solve these exercises and mail them to the institute and the corrected sheets would be posted back with remarks and better solutions, if need be. Besides, I referred to several well-known university level text books like say Halliday & Resnick, Irodov, Sarin & Sarin, Hall and Knight, Morrison & Boyd, S L Loney etc when in Grade 10, 11 & 12 as part of my IIT JEE preparation. It was all hardwork and tears.
The ISC (Grade 12) board exams were a breeze and then the main test of one's knowledge in math, physics and chem which was the IIT JEE approached.
A week before the entrance we went mad and became frantic as we revised the concepts and rushed off to the residences of scientists and professors known to our families for extra help and tips. The day of the IIT JEE, I was nervous and revised the main concepts and was driven to the test center alloted to me by my Dad and Mom who were equally nervous. Around 400,000 students all over India took the IIT JEE on that day and the atmosphere was tense. Each paper lasted several hours with a small break in between. A huge gang from Cathedral appeared for the IIT JEE. The results were declared after a month and the pic of the IIT JEE first ranker was published in leading newspapers by the various coaching academies. I ranked in the first 250 in India and could have entered a select discipline in engineering like electrical, aeropspace, chemical etc but I was firm about wanting to study pure science and so rejected the offer of a seat in engineering.
The ISC board syllabus is the best in India though the physics syllabus in the CBSE board is great. Teachers in India lack the basic skills in many ways and without being trained well by the school teachers and without enrolling with a private tutoring academy it would be almost impossible to clear the IIT JEE. Other entrances are not as difficult as the IIT JEE but students need special coaching.
But in 2011 you told to Buford that you passed the IIT JEE with a very high score without being prepared, while now you are admitting you were trained since grade 9.

What a story teller you are.

LOL

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#49662 Feb 26, 2013
JOEL wrote:
REPLY TO FRIJOLES:
FRIJOLES: Could a very smart but undereducated person perform well on them (entrance tests)?
So, not to dismiss out of hand your strong personal achievements, the fact is that one needs not only a decent schooling but probably supplemental coaching as well to perform adequately. Which makes the testing and the resultant opportunities not solely merit based, but class based as well.

TO me that sounds a lot like our American SAT system but on steroids...
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49664 Feb 26, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

So, not to dismiss out of hand your strong personal achievements, the fact is that one needs not only a decent schooling but probably supplemental coaching as well to perform adequately. Which makes the testing and the resultant opportunities not solely merit based, but class based as well.

TO me that sounds a lot like our American SAT system but on steroids...
Yes, original thinking comes in much later and is the preserve of just a few people with inborn genius for whom formal education holds little value.

IIT JEE needs a systematic approach and great test taking skills for success.

I appeared for both the SAT I and II in Grade 12 without preparation but was a bit ill on the morning of the standardized tests mailed from Princeton and underperfomed. Before the IIT JEE the SAT is childish. So, are the GRE and GMAT.

IIT JEE is seriously flawed and fails to take into account true aptitude. Those opting for engineering at the IITs are colossal failures as they lack the natural aptitude for hands-on engineering and innovation/inevtions and are merely book smart.

In retrospect, all those years appear immature and a waste in many ways.

The supramental yoga has really opened me up to the true knowledge and realizations and despite quitting the yoga due to life-threatening attacks the yogic experiences are spontaneously continuing. Let's see for how long.

Anyway, it's 3:30 am here.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49665 Feb 26, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>

But in 2011 you told to Buford that you passed the IIT JEE with a very high score without being prepared, while now you are admitting you were trained since grade 9.

What a story teller you are.

LOL
This is my post to HUGH on IIT JEE and SAT exams on July 15, 2011.

Post # 89038, Page 4237, WHI IS ALLAH THREAD:

NOTE:

Damien Chang is a Chinese settled in Jamaica. LOL.

Had he scored say even 60 on 100 in the IIT JEE, the world's toughest entrance exam for high school students to engineering and pure science colleges, it would have been an academic achievement.

It would have been an even bigger academic achievement had Chang bagged a gold or a silver medal at the International Math, Physics, Chemistry or Biology Olympiads.

Getting a perfect score in elementary tests like the SAT I and II, GMAT or GRE is not so difficult and we read reports of Indian students who have cracked the SAT, GMAT and GRE.

After high school, I had scored 2360 on 2400 in the SAT without any previous preparation and would have done much better had I been well since I remember that I was feverish and was shivering all throughout the exam. I don't consider my high score a feat worth talking about. I did not go to the US since I got admitted to a top Indian program here.

The doctoral programs in engineering, math and pure science in the best US universities are crammed with bright Indian and Chinese students who take away most of the top honors.

PS:

SC,

If you have some shame, apologize to me by falsely accusing me of twisting facts, You're always doing this, Mr Jealousy and Inferiority Complex. You have a destructive and a criminal mind. Typical Italian.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49666 Feb 26, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA:

This is my post to HUGH on IIT JEE and SAT exams on July 15, 2011.

Post # 89038, Page 4237, WHO IS ALLAH THREAD:

NOTE:

Damien Chang is a Chinese settled in Jamaica. LOL.

Had he scored say even 60 on 100 in the IIT JEE, the world's toughest entrance exam for high school students to engineering and pure science colleges, it would have been an academic achievement.

It would have been an even bigger academic achievement had Chang bagged a gold or a silver medal at the International Math, Physics, Chemistry or Biology Olympiads.

Getting a perfect score in elementary tests like the SAT I and II, GMAT or GRE is not so difficult and we read reports of Indian students who have cracked the SAT, GMAT and GRE.

After high school, I had scored 2360 on 2400 in the SAT without any previous preparation and would have done much better had I been well since I remember that I was feverish and was shivering all throughout the exam. I don't consider my high score a feat worth talking about. I did not go to the US since I got admitted to a top Indian program here.

The doctoral programs in engineering, math and pure science in the best US universities are crammed with bright Indian and Chinese students who take away most of the top honors.

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