Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72043 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49195 Feb 12, 2013
CAUSAL NATURE OF QUESTION & ANSWER:

"If we can really understand the problem, the answer will come out of it, because the answer is not separate from the problem."

J.Krishnamurti

COMMENTS:

1) Effect is nothing else but the cause in partial or complete manifestation.

2) An effect must be at least as great as its cause in terms of information content.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49196 Feb 12, 2013
THE DING AN SICH & THE QUALITIES:

"The description is not the described; I can describe the mountain, but the description is not the mountain, and if you are caught up in the description, as most people are, then you will never see the mountain."

J.Krishnamurti

COMMENTS:

True. The thatness of an objects always eludes the senses and the sense-informed mind. Besides, the instreumental parts of being are so designed so as to adpat themselves to a narrow range of traits of the object under invedstigation and the object in turn reveals only so much of its qualities as the instrument is designed to study.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49197 Feb 12, 2013
TRUE CRITICISM:

"To me, then, true criticism consists in trying to find out the intrinsic worth of the thing itself, and not in attributing a quality to that thing. You attribute a quality to an environment, to an experience, only when you want to derive something from it, when you want to gain or to have power or happiness. Now this destroys true criticism. Your desire is perverted through attributing values, and therefore you cannot see clearly. Instead of trying to see the flower in its original and entire beauty, you look at it through coloured glasses, and therefore you can never see it as it is."

J.Krishnamurti

1933-12-29 1st Public Talk, Adyar, Madras, India.

COMMENT:

The thing-in-itself of an object under investigation cannot be known by reason or by inferential methods. True knowledge of the thatness of an object can only be acquired by the identification in consciousness of the subject with the object.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49198 Feb 12, 2013
OBSERVER-OBSERVED - MONISM:

"The observer is the observed."

Jiddu Krishnamurti

COMMENTS:

True, where the self in the manifestation is concerned but this assertion is false when the ultimate reality is sought to be explained by referring to one entity that serves as the source of the manifestation/cosmos. The ultimate reality is a sytem or a uniifed field with consciousness and energy serving as the obverse and reverse aspects of one reality which is the unified field.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49199 Feb 12, 2013
TRADITION IS DECADENCE:

"Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay."

Jiddu Krishnamurti

COMMENT:

True in most ways. Traditions and rituals are futile and a sheer waste of time, energy, material resources and consciousness. Direct experience and realization are everything.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#49200 Feb 12, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, Papa.
No offence meant.
I was just conveying to the audience on this august forum the special meaning that I attach to the term based on yogic experiences and intellectual understanding.
Resolved.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49201 Feb 12, 2013
FREEDOM FROM SUFFERING:

"And the point is, is it possible for the mind to be totally free from suffering and yet not become indifferent, callous, irresponsible, but to have that passion, the intensity, the energy that freedom brings, freedom from suffering."

J Krishnamurti, 3rd Public Talk, San Francisco, 1973

COMMENTS:

QUESTION:

How can this superior state of mental existence come about? Give the mechanisms involved.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49202 Feb 12, 2013
Good night from Joel, Cuffe Parade, Mumbai.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49203 Feb 12, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Resolved.
Thank you.

Good night.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#49204 Feb 12, 2013
JOEL wrote:
NATURE & RELIGION:
"When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important."
J Krishnamurti: The Little Book on Living
QUESTION:
What more can be added to his view above?
Thats one way to look at it. No doubt that architecture has an effect on world view. As well as written religions vs oral religions.

But another way to look at it is that with the development of the temple (synagogue), the Hebrews were free to worship anywhere instead of favoring one place over another with altars. Arguably that is a more expansive view of nature then confining it to a certain place, rock, mountain, etc etc...

Appreciation and interaction of the natural world isnt necessarily exclusive with the built worship environment.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#49205 Feb 12, 2013
JOEL wrote:
TRADITION IS DECADENCE:
"Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay."
Jiddu Krishnamurti
COMMENT:
True in most ways. Traditions and rituals are futile and a sheer waste of time, energy, material resources and consciousness. Direct experience and realization are everything.
traditions often provide the road map to direct experience.

Without the blueprint as a help, often all we are left is the memory of the experience

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#49206 Feb 12, 2013
JOEL wrote:
FREEDOM FROM SUFFERING:
"And the point is, is it possible for the mind to be totally free from suffering and yet not become indifferent, callous, irresponsible, but to have that passion, the intensity, the energy that freedom brings, freedom from suffering."
J Krishnamurti, 3rd Public Talk, San Francisco, 1973
COMMENTS:
QUESTION:
How can this superior state of mental existence come about? Give the mechanisms involved.
Human beings are fundamentally flawed (some more than others).

Evidence A:
the link I posted previously about the 105 year old Zen Master who couldnt keep from foundling his students.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#49207 Feb 12, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
My kidney stones were analyzed and found not be from oxalic acid, so that is not a concern.
Besides, you need a relatively high pH (7-8) for calcium to even be available to plants, and even after incorporation, calcium, like most of the rest of the plant secondary macronutrients, is not very mobile.
The Cl is more of a problem. It results in desiccation and salt burn of the plants, as well as lowered resistance to disease - usually months later. Its a big problem on our landscape here in the NE due to snow management.
rabbee: well a ph of 7, is considered neutral. so we are not necessarly talking about, detectable acidity by the human palate. and calcium oxilate, is not by a rapid accumilation process. but plutonium oxilate in the kidneys, could be a severe problem. since plutonium, acts like calcium in the body.

but calcium or sodium, is not a common substance found in plants either. but oxalic acid, is a common substance found in almost all plants. though the percent, of oxalic acid may vary from vege to vege. rubarb happens to be one plant, with the highest concentrations of oxalic acid.

and the chloride, also damages concrete too. like all, chlorides do. but is less corrosive to, concrete, iron, steel than sodium or potassium chlorides. but naked aluminum, would be kind of iffy.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#49208 Feb 12, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Speak for yourself. My feet are perfect (unless I dabble with the Jamaican doo doo)
was not intended, to speak for myself. but in reference to someone else, you allegedly speak of. and i just love, ending sentences with a preposition. if you will pardon, the digression. nor was it intended, to put bigfoot to shame.

but i am thankfull that my foot, is too big to put in my own mouth. as a quadruple e, is not a standard size for an 8 1/2 foot. but it does give me, with great and non-typical lateral balance. not easily moved, from side to side.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#49209 Feb 12, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a huge debate among the theoreticians whether a consciousness merge is actually a merge or a cleaving. That is a matter of personal opinion, as far as I am concerned. And probably it was really a merge, noone would be able to return to tell us about it.
There are billions of techniques to alter ones consciousness (i.e. trance). Thats why shamanism and meditation are found cross culturally.
rabbee: well do you remember anything, between the last time you were here in TheTorah, to this time again here in IT? are you now in the process, of being reminded of what you did last time. since even you have been returned, from the previously being dead. yet you have no, knowledge of this? why not?
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#49210 Feb 12, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
How come?
Monotheism means the worship of just one being among numerous beings.
Don't YHVH, Allah and other inferior beings warn their respective followers of severe punishment if they happen to worship other gods/beings?
This clearly shows that YHVH and Allah with their anthropathetic traits wish to be the dominant being over and above their rivals (other beings).
rabbee: does this explain why, you are attempting to be the dominant of the message board here? and why everyone else, is allegedly inferior to you and your only true scripture?
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#49211 Feb 12, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You are telling other people what they are worshipping.
With all due respect that is arrogant.
rabbee: what you mean to tell me, that everybody refuses to worship the joel g-d? oh! wow aren't they being arrogant, for not believing in the scriptures of joel?
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#49212 Feb 12, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats not the definition of monotheism
Definition of MONOTHEISM
: the doctrine or belief that there is but one God
----------
The punishment is for worshipping "beings" OTHER than God. God is not a being, or in the words of Green, God is BEING. Limits of language once again.
Sometimes I think you are not that different than Hughbe after all. Same literalistic approach.
rabbee: does not everyone not any better than you, who thinks they are allegedly better than you. think they are, your g-d? the i put myself in charge of you, g-d syndrome. cause i say, i am better than you mentality.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#49213 Feb 12, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Judaism is not a monotheistic religion as you naively understood, but a monolastristic religion.
Monolatrism recognizes the existence of many gods, but it focuses only to worship one god out of many.
In Torah YHVH never said that other gods don't exist, but rather he has warned the Hebrews to not worship other gods, he's very jealous about it.
rabbee: and yes THEY did prove, THEIR MASTERY over all the other g-ds in TheTorah. so i believe it is to anyones advantage, to not worship other g-ds, or their idol subordinates that can't be 100% trusted. so i do not believe it is for G-D's own good that it is commanded to believe in TheG-D. but it is for our own good, to believe in HIM. but then the question always looms, just which g-d is it out of the so many to choose from in the world today?
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#49214 Feb 12, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the term. My vocabulary is one word larger now.
From a theoretical perspective, you are correct. But from a practical perspective, Judaism is a monotheistic religion - i.e. I dont think you will find many modern practitioners that would actually follow the interpretation you offered.
rabbee: oh come on frijoles, the alleged as jews do not even have their whole act together yet. and i am sure that the muslems and the rest of the world, would really like it if they did. or they would not be trying so hard, to keep them distracted from G-D.

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