Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72023 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Since: Aug 11

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#47669 Jan 24, 2013
idgaf wrote:
Idgaf: mom was catholic turned to another christian branch.
You stated in your original post that she converted TO Christianity. Do you not consider Catholics to be Christians, or did you just communicate that poorly?
idgaf wrote:
CoR: Why can't your life have reason or purpose without a god?
Idgaf: I'm perfectly fine. Where's ur question coming from? Angle?
No "angle". Some people believe god must exist in order for us to have purpose and meaning in our lives. Just trying to see where you stand on that issue.
idgaf wrote:
Too many people need to believe. Read my posts from earlier. Maybe I was asleep writing and confused u.
If someone "needs" to believe, I don't fault them for it. We all have wants and needs. Many of these wants and needs are common across humanity. It's just the way we deal with them that differs.
idgaf wrote:
CoR: The only thing a god would provide is an externally determined purpose. You can still have an internally determined purpose(s) without a god. And why do we need childish stories of eternal reward or damnation to coerce us into being good. I certainly don't. Do you?
Idgaf: read what I wrote and interpret as you wish ... I am getting "we are in violent agreement" from you on many points in a strange sort of way
I agree, we have more in common than certain others on this forum. What I'm still trying to understand it what drives you to believe in a higher power. Unless I misunderstood, you seem to acknowledge that god is unknowable. You also seem to agree that a person can have meaning and purpose in life without god. So what drives you to believe that a higher power exists?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#47670 Jan 24, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
Triple chuckle
(though the use of the word drivel IS a bit harsh IMO)
He calls 'em like he sees 'em.
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#47671 Jan 24, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
Triple chuckle
(though the use of the word drivel IS a bit harsh IMO)
A couple of days ago he said (1) that when he looks in the mirror, he sees god, and (2) that whatever he accepts/approves of, so does his god.

I'm going to have to go ahead and stand by the word.

driv·el

/ˈdrivəl/

Noun

Silly nonsense: "don't talk such drivel!".

However, as always, I repect anyone's right to disagree.

:))

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#47672 Jan 24, 2013
idgaf wrote:
you've never from your early childhood believed in a higher power than yourself?
I realize I may have misinterpreted your response as hostile when, in fact, I shouldn't have.

In answer to your question, I was raised in a religious household. As my critical thinking skills developed and I began questioning what I was taught, I came to realize how improbable that it was actually true.

I'm the type of person that likes to know whether what I believe in is true or not. Faith (belief without evidence), doesn't cut it for me.

Hope this answers your question in a more thoughtful manner.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#47674 Jan 24, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
A couple of days ago he said (1) that when he looks in the mirror, he sees god, and (2) that whatever he accepts/approves of, so does his god.
I'm going to have to go ahead and stand by the word.
driv·el
/&#712;driv&#601;l/
Noun
Silly nonsense: "don't talk such drivel!".
However, as always, I repect anyone's right to disagree.
:))
No question it was drivel. But I was merely trying to take the edge out of the conversation. Sure Hughbe often posts demeaning and insulting verbiage, but that latest exchange was a little less so (more humorous than anything), and my responses were more towards ribbing.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#47675 Jan 24, 2013
I prefer the word babble to drivel. Dunno why.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#47676 Jan 24, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>

No "angle". Some people believe god must exist in order for us to have purpose and meaning in our lives. Just trying to see where you stand on that issue.
<quoted text>
Others (like me) create meaning for their lives on their own, but still accept a God notion. There is that middle ground too.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#47677 Jan 24, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
I prefer the word babble to drivel. Dunno why.
I prefer to use the word "babble" more as a verb and "drivel" as a known.

For example:

Huggy likes to babble on and on, spouting such silly drivel.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#47678 Jan 24, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Others (like me) create meaning for their lives on their own, but still accept a God notion. There is that middle ground too.
Understood. But I see the two as mutually exclusive.

I was addressing the throngs of fundies that believe you MUST have a god in order to have meaning and purpose in life. These are the people that typically say such things as "well, it you're an atheist, why don't you just kill yourself since your life has no meaning or purpose".

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#47679 Jan 24, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Understood. But I see the two as mutually exclusive.
I was addressing the throngs of fundies that believe you MUST have a god in order to have meaning and purpose in life. These are the people that typically say such things as "well, it you're an atheist, why don't you just kill yourself since your life has no meaning or purpose".
But they are not mutually exclusive. Only to Christian fundies they are.

Another example - Do deists rely on God to provide them meaning and purpose?
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#47681 Jan 24, 2013
JOEL wrote:
Vegetarianism - food with a lofty philosophy, karma-free food.
rabbee: helpless plant murderer! they can't even try to run. due to their, religious upbringing. they can't even fight back, as the only true innocent victems.

so eat your own dirt, you shamefull critter. plants only refine the dirt, for it's own purpose. and animal that eat the plants, just refine the dirt more to their own purpose. they are all, just physical dirt refineries.

all prejudices - are just a matter of the vain perspective, of the totally ignorant of G-D. since it is all made of physical dirt, then you must eat of your own dirt you whole life.

if G-D taboo's anything, you must be missing the reasoning for it. for those who eat, of their horse-crap in the dark shall be called mushrooms. there is more than just physical food, to TheHis Domain. and their are deadlie poisons, in both the physical and mental domains. as most of you, are a G-Dless talksick spill.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#47682 Jan 24, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
But they are not mutually exclusive. Only to Christian fundies they are.
Another example - Do deists rely on God to provide them meaning and purpose?
Perhaps bad phrasing on my part. Let me retry.

I am asserting that belief in god is not a prerequisite to having meaning/purpose in life.

Fundies assert that beielf in (or more importantly, existence of) god IS a prerequisite to having meaning/purpose in life.

If I'm not mistaken, you are in agreement with my assertion. You believe in god, and you might even believe some or all of your purpose might come from god, but you don't see it as a prerequisite for everyone.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#47683 Jan 24, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
So, there is "clean" and "unclean" food. The designations may change according to belief, but you recognize that there are foods that are proper to eat and foods that are improper to eat.
rabbee: if it changes, according to your! belief. then i may be something wrong, with your very own someone elses franken-beliefs. and all franken-beliefs, usually have the mind of a criminal element in their somewhere.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#47684 Jan 24, 2013
rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: helpless plant murderer! they can't even try to run. due to their, religious upbringing. they can't even fight back, as the only true innocent victems.
There is nothing more violent in this world then watching your veggies in a food processor.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#47685 Jan 24, 2013
MUQ wrote:
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-45
Enemies of Islam represent our prophet as a very cruel and blood thirsty man, who would kill his “opponents, enemies and any one who disagreed with him” at “the drop of hat” and all his adversaries would be “terrified” at the mere sight of him.
The picture is far from true, let us look at some incidents from the life of prophet, as what was “this sword which killed the enmity for ever”
The Case of : ABDULLAH (DUL BAJADAIN)
He was a young lad, whose father died when he was quite young.. His uncle took care of him and provided him with camels and other items of daily life, to improve his lot.
Abdullah heard about Islam when he was very young, he was afraid of his uncle and was hoping that he would become Muslim sooner or later. When prophet conquered Makkah and still his uncle did not accept Islam, he went to his uncle and told “I was waiting all these years, hoping that you would accept Islam, but it seems you have no interest in it, but I want to accept Islam”
‘If you want to become Muslim you will have to forgo all your wealth including clothes on your body” his uncle told harshly.
Abdullah immediately renounce all his wealth and dress on his body and went to his mother, naked and told that he has left all his wealth and he want to go to Madina to become Muslim. His mother gave him one blanket, which he cut in two pieces and wrapped around his torso and his shoulder and went to Madina.
He reached Madina during night and went to Prophet’s mosque and waited for prophet to emerge. Prophet saw him after morning prayer and asked his story, Abdullah told his full story, prophet was very much impressed by his sincerity and his faith. He accepted Islam and prophet gave him nickname DUL BAJADAIN which means “One with two blankets”.
Abdullah joined the group of SUFFA and started his learning of Quran and Islamic way of life. Shortly afterward Battle of Tabuk took place. DUL BAJADAIN went to prophet and said “O Messenger of Allah, pray to Allah that I receive martyrdom in this battle”
Prophet asked him to bring the bark of a tree to him. When he came with the bark, prophet tied it on his arm as an arm band and said “O Allah! I prohibit that any Non believer should shed his blood”
DUL BAJADAIN said “I wanted martyrdom, but you have said a thing totally opposite” Prophet replied “If you go forward in way of Allah and you die due to any cause, you are a martyr”
When the army reached Tabuk, DUL BAJADAIN was inflicted with high fever and he died after a brief illness. He was buried during night, with Bilal holding the torch, and Abu Bakr and Omar were lowering him in the grave and prophet was sitting near the grave giving instruction.
When the body was lowered in the grave, prophet prayed “O Allah! I was happy with him till this evening, you also become happy with him”
IBN MASOOD wished,“Oh would I have been in this grave”.
Such was the strange story of Abdullah i.e. DUL BAJADAIN victim of Prophet’ and Islam’ love.
Source: Companions of Prophet: by Talib Hashmi
rabbee: the one through, their own dead neck.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#47686 Jan 24, 2013
"So I guess my detector on God is that whenever someone uses what they feel as evidence instead of what they think as evidence or what they can prove as evidence, I’m very, very skeptical. The most important thing is to feel about things you feel about — should feel about — and think about things you should think about. You should not feel about the speed of light or evolution and you should not think about love. You should feel “I love you,” you should think about reality. And when someone says they feel the universe was created by a God, that’s nonsense, just like saying, you know,“I’ve thought about it and maybe I should love you.” Don’t mix those two." - Penn Jillette
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#47688 Jan 24, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You are not the author? Did someone else write your post for you?
I said you were class CONSCIOUS. i.e. you were conscious of class distinctions. Obviously you are, or you would of never made that observation.
How much haughtiness or arrogance is imputed by that observation is a secondary, but related discussion.
rabbee: what his make believe seintence, is from some one elses life? and is given power to move, by someone elses controlling power? oh! how novel, his life is from someone elses novel. now we k-need to know, is it really G-D, or is it really the daemon posing as a g-d.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#47689 Jan 24, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

actually you missed the concept ENTIRELY.

Kosher is not about clean vs unclean (that is an English translation) it is about ritual purity which is very different.
I know about ritual purity and the like though I wonder why certain animals are not to be eaten as for instance why the meat of camel, swine, crab or rabbit meat (both treif) is any less healthy than cow or goat meat, while others can be killed and consumed and I also wonder about the logic behind the injunction that certain foods accompanied by certain other food items are also not permissible like meat and dairy cannot be mixed.

How sensible from the logical, scientific or mystical perspectives are any of these rules?

1) Grape products made by non-Jews may not be eaten.

2) Of the "beasts of the earth" (which basically refers to land mammals with the exception of swarming rodents), you may eat any animal that has cloven hooves and chews its cud.

3) Of the things that are in the waters, you may eat anything that has fins and scales. Lev. 11:9; Deut. 14:9. Thus, shellfish such as lobsters, oysters, shrimp, clams and crabs are all forbidden.

4) Rodents, reptiles, amphibians, and insects (except as mentioned above) are all forbidden.

5) If the lungs are free from such adhesions, the animal is deemed "glatt" (that is, "smooth").

6) The animal to be murdered must have no disease or flaws in the organs at the time of slaughter. These restrictions, ironically, do not apply to fish; only to the flocks and herds.

7) The sciatic nerve and its adjoining blood vessels may not be eaten.

8) the Talmud prohibits cooking meat and fish together or serving them on the same plates, because it is considered to be unhealthy. It is, however, permissible to eat fish and dairy together but not meat of animals and diary.

Kashrut/Kosher and halaal are not acceptable.

Vegetarianism does away with meat for all the given reasons in my post below -

A RE-POST:

Kosher and halaal are practices based on ignorance, superstition and cruelty.

From the viewpoint of matter, food reduces to classes of various chemicals.

From a deeper perspective, chemicals are a mixture of various forces - physical and vital.

Added to this is the mind element of the organism that infuses the chemicals and force fields.

So, what is pure or impure about chemicals and physical, vital and mental forces? Nothing at all.

What is important to note is is that hygienic norms are adhered to during the breeding, preservation and cooking stages.

However, certain classes of chemicals via food intake have a deleterious impact on health as proven by science.

From the logical and the yogic perspectives, those foods acquired through murder result in accumulation of bad karma and the intake of any food that is a result of murder/slaughter can unbalance the mind-body equilibrium since the pain/suffering experienced by say a cow while it's being murdered is imprinted as highly distorted mental-vital vibrations in its flesh molecules/force fields and this mass of disordered vibrations enters our body when we eat the flesh and this then adds to our store of negative vital and mental vibrations thus making us more prone to psychological and/or emotional disorders and besides, again, a non-vegetarian diet based on slaughter lowers our respect for life and induces in us cruelty and insensitivity to pain/suffering.

However, the earth nature and its concomitant state of consciousness (as part of the evolution of consciousness from a state of involution) has still not shaken off its unregenerate trappings and so killing for food and intake of products of murder seen in the animal and mammalian kingdoms continues on a mass scale.

There can be individual progress in this regard.

Food choice is determined by the state of consciousness one is in.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#47690 Jan 24, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
good answer.
rabbee: well i see them more clearly, as the child of G-D more maturly. since you must be, an adulterer to be an adult.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#47691 Jan 24, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps bad phrasing on my part. Let me retry.
I am asserting that belief in god is not a prerequisite to having meaning/purpose in life.
Fundies assert that beielf in (or more importantly, existence of) god IS a prerequisite to having meaning/purpose in life.
If I'm not mistaken, you are in agreement with my assertion. You believe in god, and you might even believe some or all of your purpose might come from god, but you don't see it as a prerequisite for everyone.
Correct.

Furthermore, I am fine with the idea that for me it is possible that no meaning comes from God and yet there still is God.

It is clear that the fundies are not very flexible or imaginative with their thinking. But we knew that already.

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