Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.
Comments
42,241 - 42,260 of 68,838 Comments Last updated 5 hrs ago
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46851
Jan 11, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask you this -
- do the rules of etiquette permit one to habitually ignore the content of a response, as you were doing multiple times regarding our "discussion" on the other thread about Jews/new world slavery and the 1983 vs 1999 scholarly works on that issue?
The rules of etiquette and good sense say that when someone behaves like you in a totally dishonest way then don't engage.

YOU said that the esteemed rabbi FABRICATED what he wrote about slavery. You then proceeded to deny what is there in black and white.

You are a waste of time and you operate outside the rules of even basic etiquette.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46853
Jan 11, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask you this -
- do the rules of etiquette permit one to habitually ignore the content of a response, as you were doing multiple times regarding our "discussion" on the other thread about Jews/new world slavery and the 1983 vs 1999 scholarly works on that issue?
POST 158037 "Who is Allah"

HughBe--- Are YOU telling me that Rabbi Raphael, a TOP historian of Jewish history, and a man who "for the last generation .. has been the EDITOR of the quarterly journal, American Jewish HISTORY" FABRICATED the information that he wrote?

Frijoles----Um...YES

HughBe--- Are YOU telling me that Rabbi Raphael, a TOP historian of Jewish history,....... FABRICATED the information that he wrote?

Frijoles----Um...YES
Eric

Arlington Heights, IL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46852
Jan 11, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
I see that you are NOT acquainted with the rules of etiquette. Nevertheless answer my question which came before yours.
HughBe--- will your messiah be mortal?
Uh,no. The topic is whether the prophets you listed--including Micah--spoke of Jesus. It's the one we are speaking of. Your question on mortality is a distraction and an attempt to deflect the discussion away from what is being discussed. At least for me, I choose not to be distracted from the question under discussion.

Does Jesus fulfill the prophecy in Micah 5:4-5 (5-6 in the KJV and its progeny)?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46854
Jan 11, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
POST 158037 "Who is Allah"
HughBe--- Are YOU telling me that Rabbi Raphael, a TOP historian of Jewish history, and a man who "for the last generation .. has been the EDITOR of the quarterly journal, American Jewish HISTORY" FABRICATED the information that he wrote?
Frijoles----Um...YES
HughBe--- Are YOU telling me that Rabbi Raphael, a TOP historian of Jewish history,....... FABRICATED the information that he wrote?
Frijoles----Um...YES
yes you just ignored the FOUR posts on that issue - the post with the qualification of what I meant by UMMMMM and the other three repeating that.

you are useless - go home
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46855
Jan 11, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask you this -
- do the rules of etiquette permit one to habitually ignore the content of a response, as you were doing multiple times regarding our "discussion" on the other thread about Jews/new world slavery and the 1983 vs 1999 scholarly works on that issue?
Frijoles---the 1983 vs 1999 scholarly works on that issue?

HughBe---- What NEW information was manufactured and incorporated into the LATER,1999, work?

Which was closer to the events of slavery 1983 or 1999 work? What are the implications?

"Jews also took an active part in the Dutch colonial slave trade; indeed, the bylaws of the Recife and Mauricia congregations (1648) included an imposta (Jewish tax) of five soldos for each Negro slave a Brazilian Jew purchased from the West Indies Company. Slave AUCTIONS were POSTPONED if they fell on a Jewish holiday. In Curacao in the seventeenth century, as well as in the British colonies of Barbados and Jamaica in the eighteenth century, Jewish merchants played a MAJOR role in the slave trade. In FACT, in ALL the American colonies, whether French (Martinique), British, or Dutch, Jewish merchants frequently DOMINATED.

"This was no less true on the North American mainland, where during the eighteenth century Jews participated in the 'triangular trade' that brought slaves from Africa to the West Indies and there exchanged them for molasses, which in turn was taken to New England and converted into rum for sale in Africa. Isaac Da Costa of Charleston in the 1750's, David Franks of Philadelphia in the 1760's, and Aaron Lopez of Newport in the late 1760's and early 1770's dominated Jewish slave trading on the American continent."

"Slave trading was a MAJOR feature of Jewish economic life in Surinam which as a major stopping-off point in the triangular trade. Both North American and Caribbean Jews played a key role in this commerce: records of a slave sale in 1707 reveal that the ten LARGEST Jewish purchasers (10,400 guilders) spent more than 25 PERCENT of the total funds (38,605 guilders) exchanged."

Source---"Rabbi Raphael is both a rabbi and a TOP historian of Jewish history. For the last generation he has been the EDITOR of the quarterly journal, American Jewish History.

He is the Nathan and Sophia Gumenick Professor of Judaic Studies, Professor of Religion, and Chair, Department of Religion, The College of William and Mary, and a Visiting Fellow of Wolfson College, Oxford University.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46856
Jan 11, 2013
 
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh,no. The topic is whether the prophets you listed--including Micah--spoke of Jesus. It's the one we are speaking of. Your question on mortality is a distraction and an attempt to deflect the discussion away from what is being discussed. At least for me, I choose not to be distracted from the question under discussion.
Does Jesus fulfill the prophecy in Micah 5:4-5 (5-6 in the KJV and its progeny)?
HughBe--- will your messiah be mortal?

Prove that my question above is a distraction and say YES or NO. It will save time and energy. Look at the sermon that you have written above. Is it not easier to say YES or NO. It is.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46857
Jan 11, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
yes you just ignored the FOUR posts on that issue - the post with the qualification of what I meant by UMMMMM and the other three repeating that.
you are useless - go home
You were defeated before you started and even you are now learning this truth.
Eric

Arlington Heights, IL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46858
Jan 11, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- will your messiah be mortal?
Prove that my question above is a distraction and say YES or NO. It will save time and energy. Look at the sermon that you have written above. Is it not easier to say YES or NO. It is.
That's ok, I'll allow you to answer my question. I choose not to be distracted.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46859
Jan 11, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
You were defeated before you started and even you are now learning this truth.
dont conflate avoidance with defeat.

What you ahev done is avoidance.

Acknolwdge my posts. there was a 183 article, plagiarized (excuse me, "unattributed") by yourself.

A follow up 1999 article that conflicts or modifies the conclusion of the the 1983 article.

And you have yet to read EITHER in the primary context (i.e. you only cut and pasted - you never read the books).

Basically you are intellectually weak.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46860
Jan 11, 2013
 
correction 1983 article
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46862
Jan 11, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
That's ok, I'll allow you to answer my question. I choose not to be distracted.
I have outlined the sequence of events below for your benefit as it appears to me that you are confused in your head. Stop the masturbating, Eric.

HughBe---I see that you are NOT acquainted with the rules of etiquette. Nevertheless answer my question which came BEFORE yours.

HughBe--- will your messiah be mortal?

HughBe---Prove that my question above is a distraction and say YES or NO. It will save time and energy. Look at the sermon that you have written above. Is it not easier to say YES or NO. It is.

Eric--That's ok, I'll allow you to answer my question. I choose not to be DISTRACTED.

HughBe---Not TRUE as you are DISTRACTING your own self with your folly.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46863
Jan 11, 2013
 
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I read the opening statement before each post. That of yesterday said this:
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-34
Enemies of Islam represent our prophet as a very cruel and blood thirsty man, who would kill his “opponents, enemies and any one who disagreed with him” at “the drop of hat” and all his adversaries would be “terrified” at the mere sight of him.
The picture is far from true, let us look at some incidents from the life of prophet, as what was “this sword which killed the enmity for ever”
The Case of : ABU HURIRAH AND PEOPLE OF SUFFAH"
Abu Hurirah in no way was enemy or an opponent of your prophet. Thus you went off topic.
The conduct of prophet was magnanimous towards his enemies as well as towards those who were his followers.

If I place once in awhile a story about his followers, that does not mean that I am "off my rocker".

It is a big series and it shows our prophet as the best model for people to follow.

It is not easy to keep those who are your followers to love you more and more with each passing day.

It is easier to get a "large crowd to follow you" by showing them miracles and healing their sicks and those with infirmities..... but to keep them following you all the way and spend their every thing for the message, needs much more than miracles!!
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46864
Jan 11, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
dont conflate avoidance with defeat.
What you ahev done is avoidance.
Acknolwdge my posts. there was a 183 article, plagiarized (excuse me, "unattributed") by yourself.
A follow up 1999 article that conflicts or modifies the conclusion of the the 1983 article.
And you have yet to read EITHER in the primary context (i.e. you only cut and pasted - you never read the books).
Basically you are intellectually weak.
The background to the exchanges follows immediately and if understood it tells why you are continuing with your attempted DECEPTION and LIES.

BACKGROUND
POST 158037 "Who is Allah"

HughBe--- Are YOU telling me that Rabbi Raphael, a TOP historian of Jewish history,....... FABRICATED the information that he wrote?

Frijoles----Um...YES

(VIP---Explain the meaning of your YES, Frijoles.)

__________

Frijoles---the 1983 vs 1999 scholarly works on that issue?

HughBe---- What NEW information was manufactured and incorporated into the LATER,1999, work?

Which was closer to the events of slavery 1983 or 1999 work? What are the implications?

"Jews also took an active part in the Dutch colonial slave trade; indeed, the bylaws of the Recife and Mauricia congregations (1648) included an imposta (Jewish tax) of five soldos for each Negro slave a Brazilian Jew purchased from the West Indies Company. Slave AUCTIONS were POSTPONED if they fell on a Jewish holiday. In Curacao in the seventeenth century, as well as in the British colonies of Barbados and Jamaica in the eighteenth century, Jewish merchants played a MAJOR role in the slave trade. In FACT, in ALL the American colonies, whether French (Martinique), British, or Dutch, Jewish merchants frequently DOMINATED.

"This was no less true on the North American mainland, where during the eighteenth century Jews participated in the 'triangular trade' that brought slaves from Africa to the West Indies and there exchanged them for molasses, which in turn was taken to New England and converted into rum for sale in Africa. Isaac Da Costa of Charleston in the 1750's, David Franks of Philadelphia in the 1760's, and Aaron Lopez of Newport in the late 1760's and early 1770's dominated Jewish slave trading on the American continent."

"Slave trading was a MAJOR feature of Jewish economic life in Surinam which as a major stopping-off point in the triangular trade. Both North American and Caribbean Jews played a key role in this commerce: records of a slave sale in 1707 reveal that the ten LARGEST Jewish purchasers (10,400 guilders) spent more than 25 PERCENT of the total funds (38,605 guilders) exchanged."

SOURCE---"Rabbi Raphael is both a rabbi and a TOP historian of Jewish history. For the last generation he has been the EDITOR of the quarterly journal, American Jewish History.

He is the Nathan and Sophia Gumenick Professor of Judaic Studies, Professor of Religion, and Chair, Department of Religion, The College of William and Mary, and a Visiting Fellow of Wolfson College, Oxford University.
Eric

Arlington Heights, IL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46865
Jan 11, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
I have outlined the sequence of events below for your benefit as it appears to me that you are confused in your head. Stop the masturbating, Eric.
HughBe---I see that you are NOT acquainted with the rules of etiquette. Nevertheless answer my question which came BEFORE yours.
HughBe--- will your messiah be mortal?
HughBe---Prove that my question above is a distraction and say YES or NO. It will save time and energy. Look at the sermon that you have written above. Is it not easier to say YES or NO. It is.
Eric--That's ok, I'll allow you to answer my question. I choose not to be DISTRACTED.
HughBe---Not TRUE as you are DISTRACTING your own self with your folly.
yawn!
Eric

Arlington Heights, IL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46866
Jan 11, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
I have outlined the sequence of events below for your benefit as it appears to me that you are confused in your head. Stop the masturbating, Eric.
HughBe---I see that you are NOT acquainted with the rules of etiquette. Nevertheless answer my question which came BEFORE yours.
HughBe--- will your messiah be mortal?
HughBe---Prove that my question above is a distraction and say YES or NO. It will save time and energy. Look at the sermon that you have written above. Is it not easier to say YES or NO. It is.
Eric--That's ok, I'll allow you to answer my question. I choose not to be DISTRACTED.
HughBe---Not TRUE as you are DISTRACTING your own self with your folly.
btw, Hugh, the mortality question was not originally directed to me. You directed it to me after I asked the Micah 5 question
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46867
Jan 11, 2013
 
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
btw, Hugh, the mortality question was not originally directed to me. You directed it to me after I asked the Micah 5 question
Eric---btw, Hugh, the mortality question was not originally directed to me. You directed it to me after I asked the Micah 5 question

HughBe--- So WHAT? Did my question come BEFORE yours?

Help is below.

Eric, YOUR post 46838

HughBe---Moses, David, Isaiah and Micah to name a few.(prophesied about Jesus)

Frijoles---yeah, right.not.Please stay in your own backyard

HughBe--- will your messiah be a mortal?

Eric--Did your messiah fulfill the prophecy of Micah 5:4-5?(Using the Jewish chapter and verse designation.)

__________

In a post subsequent to your response to the above I said, I see that you are NOT acquainted with the rules of etiquette. Nevertheless answer my question which came BEFORE yours.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46868
Jan 11, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
The background to the exchanges follows immediately and if understood it tells why you are continuing with your attempted DECEPTION and LIES.
BACKGROUND
POST 158037 "Who is Allah"
HughBe--- Are YOU telling me that Rabbi Raphael, a TOP historian of Jewish history,....... FABRICATED the information that he wrote?
Frijoles----Um...YES
(VIP---Explain the meaning of your YES, Frijoles.)
__________
Frijoles---the 1983 vs 1999 scholarly works on that issue?
HughBe---- What NEW information was manufactured and incorporated into the LATER,1999, work?
Which was closer to the events of slavery 1983 or 1999 work? What are the implications?
"Jews also took an active part in the Dutch colonial slave trade; indeed, the bylaws of the Recife and Mauricia congregations (1648) included an imposta (Jewish tax) of five soldos for each Negro slave a Brazilian Jew purchased from the West Indies Company. Slave AUCTIONS were POSTPONED if they fell on a Jewish holiday. In Curacao in the seventeenth century, as well as in the British colonies of Barbados and Jamaica in the eighteenth century, Jewish merchants played a MAJOR role in the slave trade. In FACT, in ALL the American colonies, whether French (Martinique), British, or Dutch, Jewish merchants frequently DOMINATED.
"This was no less true on the North American mainland, where during the eighteenth century Jews participated in the 'triangular trade' that brought slaves from Africa to the West Indies and there exchanged them for molasses, which in turn was taken to New England and converted into rum for sale in Africa. Isaac Da Costa of Charleston in the 1750's, David Franks of Philadelphia in the 1760's, and Aaron Lopez of Newport in the late 1760's and early 1770's dominated Jewish slave trading on the American continent."
"Slave trading was a MAJOR feature of Jewish economic life in Surinam which as a major stopping-off point in the triangular trade. Both North American and Caribbean Jews played a key role in this commerce: records of a slave sale in 1707 reveal that the ten LARGEST Jewish purchasers (10,400 guilders) spent more than 25 PERCENT of the total funds (38,605 guilders) exchanged."
SOURCE---"Rabbi Raphael is both a rabbi and a TOP historian of Jewish history. For the last generation he has been the EDITOR of the quarterly journal, American Jewish History.
He is the Nathan and Sophia Gumenick Professor of Judaic Studies, Professor of Religion, and Chair, Department of Religion, The College of William and Mary, and a Visiting Fellow of Wolfson College, Oxford University.
Well we are making slow progress. You now acknowledge my qualification of the Ummmmm comment.

That said, you are in NO position to ask what new evidence is being offered until you read the primary text of the work that you are basing your views on, and udnerstand the whole picture of what the 1983 author is saying. Cut and pastes are not sufficient - buy the book and READ IT. This is especially silly as I am NOT necessarily contradicting the 1983 work...

RATHER I am introducing another view - unread by BOTH of us - that may not necesarrily contradict in its entirety the first work as neither of us have read the first work totally.

You are hung up on a STRAW ARGUMENT- that I am challenging the 1983 authors credentials. I never was. I was offering another view from another academic on the subject matter - something academics do as a matter of normal practice.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46869
Jan 11, 2013
 
Hughbe - take a look at this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_and_the_sla... (antisemitic_canard)#Later_ass essments

Basically this link summarizes all the later scholarly work to support this statement:

"Most post-1991 scholars that analysed the role of Jews in the overall Atlantic slave trade concluded that it was "minimal", and only identified certain regions (such as Brazil and the Caribbean) where the participation was "significant".[80].. "

Now you and I BOTH know that Wiki is not an authority - but it provides citations to several post 1983 academic works that address the topic at hand.

You are free to find these works on your own if you choose.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46870
Jan 11, 2013
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_and_the_sla... (antisemitic_canard)#Later_ass essments

in case this link continues to be mangled..google Wiki Jews and the Slave trade - go to the article of that name with the additional title "antisemetic canard" and scroll down to the section "later assessments".
Eric

Arlington Heights, IL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#46871
Jan 11, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

HughBe--- So WHAT? Did my question come BEFORE yours?
No, your question to ME came after my question to you. I was responding to your prophecy STATEMENT.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Other Recent Chicago Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting... (Jan '09) 3 min Sgt Prepper 176,788
Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 4 min Nuculur option 1,095,955
Amy 8-21 20 min Toj 12
Topix Chitown Regulars (Aug '09) 21 min Toj 97,823
{keep A word drop A word} (Oct '11) 2 hr Doug77 4,636
last post wins! (Apr '13) 2 hr Concerned_American 320
Ill. House Approves Legalizing Same-Sex Civil U... (Dec '10) 3 hr bushi 49,259

Search the Chicago Forum:
•••
•••

Chicago Jobs

•••
Enter and win $5000
•••

Chicago People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••

Chicago News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Chicago
•••

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]
•••