Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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“Deep as a puddle...”

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#46344
Dec 30, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
What seems to be at the heart of the matter (to me at least) is not what is absolute right, but what is right living...
And that would be a philosophy, not an answer. Therefore it would seem to be most meaningful, it would HAVE to be tailored toward each individual.
Now, philosophically speaking, that does bring up an interesting point. Can they be at odds? Truly? Is there a difference between what is right and what is right-living? Is that a problem that a dude like Muq or a dude like Fred Phelps of that Westboro Baptist would have a hard time answering? Running into (yet another) problem I have had with my endeavor, watching money drip down the drain, being generally unproductive I suppose and stymied by every solution I attempt, yet, at the same time, being re-energized by the best gift I could have POSSIBLY gotten for my recent endeavors while, of course, contemplating Jesus, His message, and life-in-general this time of year, I am often left to wonder... I have always heard that the strongest and surest path to take through life is to never give up. Never, ever give up. But some things DO need to be given up on. That is exactly what Jesus was saying, give UP on the slave-trading, give UP on the money-lending, give UP on the killing, the stoning, the judgement of others, the blaming of everyone else for your problems, either individually or as a people. His own disciples questioned Him on that sometimes, he basically told them to STFU. But when is the proper TIME to give up? I'm an old hat, I would never claim to be a spring chicken, so I know how the world works. Every single celluar-phone company that started the industry in the late 80's and early 90's went belly-up, they died at auction sold-off for pennies on the dollar. Yet they were bought, and now practically every human on earth has a cellphone. Directv and Dish Network sufferred BILLION-dollar losses for decades becoming even remotely viable, but almost half of all subscribers of television services these days watch that crap. Something fed by a satellite. Jesus chose to stand to the death for what He believed in. Loving others. Treating people like you yourself would like to be treated. I admire that. How can you not admire that? The one person who has probably ever existed on the planet Who wanted absolutely nothing from you, didn't care, really, what you did or said or how you lived or anything... the ultimate loner. I like that. it is powerful.

“Deep as a puddle...”

Since: Dec 07

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#46345
Dec 30, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
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Dont blame the poor Mayans. Their culture and belied system is undoubtably 100% more complicated than the water down "prophecy" that a few white people ran with.
Personally one of the funniest stories of 2012 to me was that Mitt Romney and Karl Rove, two of the more powerful wealthy folks in the US, with unlimited access to resources, were themselves victims to their party's own media bubble. Honestly (with no sarcasm), who would of thought?
Perhaps someone should of hooked their cable up to National Geographic as well.
I actually enjoyed watching Karl Rove get knocked off his high-horse. I liked his fairly humble background and all, but that guy really just seemed to run his course. He never seemed to me to be somebody particularily well-suited to managing something as important as election-posts that could effect international politics, and I would prefer that he just sort of "fall by the way-side." Plus, if he had had a lick of sense, he could have induced Condoleeze Rice to get on the ticket one way or the other, but the Republicans may simply not have had enough money to make that happen and run a campaign. I'm not saying I want a fancy-pants ultra-educated fellow as President like Hoover or that I want a suave fellow like Nixon, but I like a little spit and gravel mixed in with whoever I'm voting for. This last election, we had a guy who built his own career going out in Chicago nailing up posters to telephone polls. In the winter. That is not easy. He was running against a guy who arranged the buying and selling of American companies to downsize and mainstream through an office in China. The Republicans little "let's demonize Obama as a community organizer scheme" backfired on them, because they have never gone out during a Chicago winter to nail up posters to a telephone pole.
Eric

Lombard, IL

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#46350
Dec 30, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Any one ridiculing and lampooning the personality and character of our prophet, makes his or her blood letting justified.
***
And not believing in message of our Prophet is not a crime which carries death penalty. Our prophet did not kill any one "Only because" he or she was an unbeliever.
Once some one has "made lawful her blood" by lampooning or making fun of the prophet, it was his judgment as to how to affect the penalty. He chose the method which would cause "minimum blood shed and maximum deterrent" to any would be "adventurer".***
The above proves my point. It is the epitome of ruthlessness to have someone killed for the exercise of free speech. And, you blindly buy into this blood letting. That was the only thing that the woman did. She spoke out against Muhammad's ruthlessness. And the coward had her killed in her sleep. Judge and Jury in one. And his lemming served as the executioner.
Eric

Lombard, IL

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#46351
Dec 30, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I know you will not believe it, but the figure of 1000 is very correct and each and every one has been counted in.
Number of persons killed in BANI QURAIZAH incident was between 430-450 and that was the Single Biggest case of killing in the life of prophet, otherwise the actual figure would be around 650!!
As Stefano said, the 600-700 figure for the Quraizah Massacre comes from Muslim sources. Historians put the figure at closer to 900. And that was but one incident. How many Medinans?
Voluntarist

United States

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#46352
Dec 30, 2012
 
saviorself wrote:
<quoted text>
I actually enjoyed watching Karl Rove get knocked off his high-horse. I liked his fairly humble background and all, but that guy really just seemed to run his course. He never seemed to me to be somebody particularily well-suited to managing something as important as election-posts that could effect international politics, and I would prefer that he just sort of "fall by the way-side." Plus, if he had had a lick of sense, he could have induced Condoleeze Rice to get on the ticket one way or the other, but the Republicans may simply not have had enough money to make that happen and run a campaign. I'm not saying I want a fancy-pants ultra-educated fellow as President like Hoover or that I want a suave fellow like Nixon, but I like a little spit and gravel mixed in with whoever I'm voting for. This last election, we had a guy who built his own career going out in Chicago nailing up posters to telephone polls. In the winter. That is not easy. He was running against a guy who arranged the buying and selling of American companies to downsize and mainstream through an office in China. The Republicans little "let's demonize Obama as a community organizer scheme" backfired on them, because they have never gone out during a Chicago winter to nail up posters to a telephone pole.
How do you know that idiot did any such thing? did you witness him hanging up posters?
Eric

Lombard, IL

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#46353
Dec 30, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-23
Enemies of Islam represent our prophet as a very cruel and blood thirsty man, who would kill his “opponents, enemies and any one who disagreed with him” at “the drop of hat” and all his adversaries would be “terrified” at the mere sight of him.
The picture is far from true, let us look at some incidents from the life of prophet, as what was “this sword which killed the enmity for ever”
The death of Ibn Sunayna

Muhammad ordered all Jews killed. No reason other than they were Jews. Muhammad had worked up the ruthlessness in his followers to such an extent that the lemmings killed solely because ordered by Muhammad. Ibn Sunayna was a Jewish merchant who committed no other offense other than he was Jewish and in the wrong place at the wrong time. "Muhayyisa b. Mas`ud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him." When questioned by a companion why Muhayyisa had killed someone whom he owed his sustenance to, Muhayyisa said the reason was that Muhammad had ordered the death of all Jews and that was good enough for him. He would even kill the companion if ordered to by Muhammad.

Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 19, Number 2996:
Eric

Lombard, IL

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#46354
Dec 30, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right, the Jews and Zionists do not want any peace, they want to hold on to the piece of land By Hook or By Crook.
All these so called peace proposals are 'for camera' only.
It is then exactly as I have stated. The Islamists like you will settle for nothing short of total victory. You can't get it through the wars you started. So your people suffer do to the failure of their leaders to negotiate peace.
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

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#46355
Dec 31, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right, the Jews and Zionists do not want any peace, they want to hold on to the piece of land By Hook or By Crook.
All these so called peace proposals are 'for camera' only.
Once again you demonstrate you are incapable of looking at any side other than the side of political Islam.

I guess Arafat and later Abbas signing off on the Oslo Accords were "for camera" only.
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

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#46356
Dec 31, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Please keep on giving examples of our prophet's ruthlessness…. And while giving these examples please check the Records of Fighting and Killings by your "Own Warrior Prophets" like Moses, Joshua, David and Solomon.
We should compare an apple against an apple and an orange against an orange, should we not?
We are the first to admit and acknowledge the ruthlessnes of some of the characters in our bible (of which I believe you, as a muslim, accept and revere).

Now, are you willing to admit the ruthfullness of yours?

By the way, it only takes one innocent death to be ruthless - so lets not get into a war about numbers.
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

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#46357
Dec 31, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
You are getting emotional here and think your hysterics would win you the debate.
You should try to compose your thoughts and speak logically.
Any one ridiculing and lampooning the personality and character of our prophet, makes his or her blood letting justified.
No one is against a reasonable debate and discussion as to why he or she rejects the message of prophet.
And not believing in message of our Prophet is not a crime which carries death penalty. Our prophet did not kill any one "Only because" he or she was an unbeliever.
Actually, the fact your prophet was a child molester and a pedophile is not the reason why I "reject" your version of Islam.

I "reject" Islam because its utility in our world is about equal to a malignant neoplasm.

Eric

Lombard, IL

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#46362
Dec 31, 2012
 

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MUQ wrote:
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03. I do not know that "when" our prophet gave orders to kill "All Jews".
Are you telling me that the following is incorrect:

"Book 19, Number 2996:

"Narrated Muhayyisah:

"The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: If you gain a victory over the men of Jews, kill them. So Muhayyisah jumped over Shubaybah, a man of the Jewish merchants. He had close relations with them. He then killed him. At that time Huwayyisah (brother of Muhayyisah) had not embraced Islam. He was older than Muhayyisah. When he killed him, Huwayyisah beat him and said: O enemy of Allah, I swear by Allah, you have a good deal of fat in your belly from his property."


What did this man do that he was killed?
Eric

Lombard, IL

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#46363
Dec 31, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
You should learn how we Muslims treat the religious heads of other faith.
Yes, please explain the way Muslims are treating the religious heads of St. Gabriel's.
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

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#46364
Dec 31, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
You should learn how we Muslims treat the religious heads of other faith.
Ok - I am all ears. Lets look at your previous post for an example of this...
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Please keep on giving examples of our prophet's ruthlessness…. And while giving these examples please check the Records of Fighting and Killings by your "Own Warrior Prophets" like Moses, Joshua, David and Solomon.
We should compare an apple against an apple and an orange against an orange, should we not?
Jeez, you are just full of love, arent you?
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

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#46365
Dec 31, 2012
 

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MUQ wrote:
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Your uncouth words speak of your state of mind.
The "views" of a patient is not taken while discussing his treatment. You in a "subjective state" of extreme hate and hatred are not in a position to decide the Future of Islam.
I think that you overestimate your own personality than it is really worth.
PS:
I KNEW that any discussion between you and me would end in bandying words, It had to happen sooner and latter.
And the STARTING point is your using uncouth language against our prophet.
You have been told and warned about it many times.
Ummm....All because I challenge your inacurracies and your lopsided rhetoric?

How about defending your prophet against the allegations that I have stated. Was he a pedophile/child molester or not? How old was his wife?
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

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#46366
Dec 31, 2012
 

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MUQ wrote:
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I think that you overestimate your own personality than it is really worth.
.
Its the only personality that I own, and I value it very much.

Why would I look to you for the worth of my personality?

I am striking your comment from the record on the basis of irrelevancy towards the subject matter at hand.
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

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#46367
Dec 31, 2012
 
Muq - And by the way, as long as you egoistically* elevate your prophet here on this forum, it is only fair for the rest of us to critique and and/or sling potshots at that image.

(*I use the word "egoistically" because you appear to have an issue with admitting you are wrong. The only explanation I can offer for this behavior involves the ego.)

Since: May 12

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#46368
Dec 31, 2012
 

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MUQ wrote:
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2. Well the Stefano did not get his facts right. There are conflicting reports about how many were killed in Bani Quraizah. But "More authentic" reports say the figure around 430-450. It was not such a Big Tribe.
What makes the muslim sources you use "More authentic" than other muslim sources?

Since: May 12

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#46369
Dec 31, 2012
 

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Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-21

Enemies of Islam represent our prophet as a very cruel and blood thirsty man, who would kill his “opponents, enemies and any one who disagreed with him” at “the drop of hat” and all his adversaries would be “terrified” at the mere sight of him. Let us see which "sword" he used.

Muhammad’s biographer Ibn Ishaq p. 464:

Then they surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied,‘Will you never understand? Don’t you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!’ This went on until the apostle made an end of them.

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 38, 4390:
"Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi: I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair."

Ibn Ishaq, pag. 515, vedi anche Tabari vol. 8, pag 123:
"Kinana al-Rabi, who had the custody of the treasure of Banu Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says "was brought"), to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, "Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?" He said "Yes". The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr Al-Awwam, "Torture him until you extract what he has." So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud."

Ishaq pag. 676:
"‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said,‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said,‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said.‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’‘No,’ the Prophet answered.‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.’”

Ah these enemies of Islam always ready to tell lie about this pious man.
Gtown71

United States

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#46370
Dec 31, 2012
 
Joining any religion , is like joining a gym.
there are many reasons why people join.
Many are signed up as kids, and just continue on.
Many, becouse they wanted to fit in somewhere.

No religion has ever gotten anyone to heaven.
Most people find the one true God, inside of a religious place, but many are talked into becomming a member, by another person.

The one true God came and woke me from my sleep , and later revieled to me, that He was Jesus Christ.

What one person can talk you into, another can tall you out of, but when you seal a deal with the one who died for you, then it is finished.

It is something so real, you can't be talked out of it.

I went from believing in no God, to becomming the child of the only living God.
Christ Jesus :)
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#46371
Dec 31, 2012
 
Gtown71 wrote:
Joining any religion , is like joining a gym.
there are many reasons why people join.
Many are signed up as kids, and just continue on.
Many, becouse they wanted to fit in somewhere.
No religion has ever gotten anyone to heaven.
Most people find the one true God, inside of a religious place, but many are talked into becomming a member, by another person.
The one true God came and woke me from my sleep , and later revieled to me, that He was Jesus Christ.
What one person can talk you into, another can tall you out of, but when you seal a deal with the one who died for you, then it is finished.
It is something so real, you can't be talked out of it.
I went from believing in no God, to becomming the child of the only living God.
Christ Jesus :)
rabbee: all religions today are an excuse to run away from G-D, and not feel lonely while doing it. as you seek the comfort of others running away from G-D, in the same idol direction as you.

and i think, you need to take another nap. since G-D would never declare, a fake name is G-D. as i fear you have been contacted, by the same misinformation angel as muhammed was. as HaShem G-D is very much opposed, to handing out j names according to all reliable scripture.

ps: and neither G-D nor i, have ever actually contacted you in even your wildest dreams. as i also reject the world, calling me their fake reign-dear names. as my contact with you, has been limited to these message boards.

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