Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72043 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Frijoles

United States

#46273 Dec 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Greeting Joel, now tell me why you would say such a stupid thing?
Could it be that Nobel prize winners are supposedly BRIGHT and come from countries where the people are BRIGHT and yet the countries with the BRIGHTEST people get very little if any of these prizes?
Hong Kong is ranked number 1 in terms of IQ on the list in the link below and so how often do people from Hong Kong get Nobel prizes?
What about people from countries much lower down the list of BRIGHTNESS? How often do they get the Nobel prizes?
Below is one site that list countries by IQ's.
http://www.sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm
Lol...I coudnt help but notice that Jamaica was listed as 70th on that list.

I place no stock in IQ as a measure of anything.

The point I was making earlier was that Israel was a leader in innovation - and that can be measured independently of either IQ or Nobel prize.
Frijoles

United States

#46274 Dec 29, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
But the thing about which Isreal is known world over and shall be known is for its racist policies and the crimes it commits on innocent Palestinian me, women and children.
More likely, Israel is known among certain radical ideological Muslim circles for "its racist policies and the crimes it commits on innocent Palestinian me, women and children.." ....and to the rest of the world it is recognized for its high tech, its agriculture innovations, and in general its scientific contributions to the rest of the world.

Regarding your mode of thinking on the issue:

prej·u·dice (prj-ds)
n.
1.
a. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
b. A preconceived preference or idea.
2. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.
3. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.
Frijoles

United States

#46275 Dec 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Could it be that Nobel prize winners are supposedly BRIGHT and come from countries where the people are BRIGHT and yet the countries with the BRIGHTEST people get very little if any of these prizes?
My undestanding of the Nobel prize areas, or at least the areas within science (vs peace and economics) is that they are weighed heavily towards those that contribute within their respective fields.

So the question you should be examining is what does it take to be recognized within your field?

The great thing about the scientific enterprise is that it is not constrained by nationality. I.E. most scientific journals are international. Therefore, it matters less whether you are Saudi, or Russian, or Trinidadian, and more if you publish something.

Now, I admit, it can be noted that not all countries financially support their scientific enterprises equally. Thats probably a better indicator of national success than ethnic belief.

But on the other hand, when you believe that the world was built in seven days literally, that cant make you a good geologist etc etc.
Frijoles

United States

#46277 Dec 29, 2012
saviorself wrote:
<quoted text>
I like that. I enjoy correcting false assumptions about my religion as well, possibly to the extent that I alienate people. But, it's my faith, so, I prefer committing the act of the correction itself and the alienation that will inevitably occur to the continued false "assumption" that people I may actually know, respect, or even love may labor under. And no, I do not consider myself any sort of "Theologian" or "Learned Person," no delusions of granduer and not even particularily well-read (though, I do admit, I research a LOT. I have always enjoyed exposing myself to what I personally consider "the Truth," and in doing so I have had to force myself at first, and then rapidly devour, even those seemingly conflicting points-of-contention that various atheistic family members have had of the New Testament Bible.) It's not always comfortable, but it most definately is rewarding, probably the most rewarding thing a person can engage in on a fundamental "what really matters in life" level. Am I right? I hope so. If I'm not, well, even the atheists I talk to, they were atheists when I started so they will be anyway when I'm gone. At least I tried. If they were right it doesn't matter, If I am maybe it didn't matter either because I got it wrong, and if neither of us are right well... we'll see what happens. The most prominent minister of the American Methodist Church even admitted he had no real answers, only the Bible, and Martin Luther answered the question of faith to begin with much more famously than that.
What seems to be at the heart of the matter (to me at least) is not what is absolute right, but what is right living...

And that would be a philosophy, not an answer. Therefore it would seem to be most meaningful, it would HAVE to be tailored toward each individual.
Frijoles

United States

#46278 Dec 29, 2012
saviorself wrote:
<quoted text>
. On a lighter note, 12-21-2012 came and went with neither whimper nor bang. Completely as expected. I don't know about you, but I went through that day exactly as I have the last for 4 years straight now... up early to water and feed my cattle. Open the chicken coup, get the eggs. Feed the pigs. Fix the fence, spend 4 hours dedicated to technologically revive what is probably a dead industry that will probably be just another money-pit because it is defunct for a reason because there is no "technological" upgrade to something that apparently defies technological or common-sense solutions to making it economically feasible, and then shutting everything back down again before going to bed, completely confident of waking up the next morning to a situation that had not changed. I was not disappointed. But, it did get me thinking, when I had time to think about it. 2012 was a good year for nothing else if it was NOT a good year for some drama. Obama got re-elected, Harold Camping was wrong twice, the Mayans proved to be jackasses, and there are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of people still hanging out inexplicably in various holes-in-grounds or caves with stored-up food supplies and such if the History Channel and National Geographic and even MSNBC were watched by the lunatic-fringe over the last twelve months. There SHOULD be some humor that ANYBODY, Muslim, Jew, Christian, Mormon, whatever you want to call yourself, should be able to take from that.
Dont blame the poor Mayans. Their culture and belied system is undoubtably 100% more complicated than the water down "prophecy" that a few white people ran with.

Personally one of the funniest stories of 2012 to me was that Mitt Romney and Karl Rove, two of the more powerful wealthy folks in the US, with unlimited access to resources, were themselves victims to their party's own media bubble. Honestly (with no sarcasm), who would of thought?

Perhaps someone should of hooked their cable up to National Geographic as well.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#46284 Dec 29, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is my gift to you.
Let us know after you have completed the first few chapters and we can give this issue the attention you think it rightfully deserves.
Learn Biblical Hebrew [Hardcover]
http://www.amazon.com/Learn-Biblical-Hebrew-J...
Your gift is appreciated nevertheless you have not dealt with my post.

Recall, why not produce a superior work to that of your rabbis?
Share your understanding of the role of translations generally and here I am speaking about the spoken and written words.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#46285 Dec 29, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol...I coudnt help but notice that Jamaica was listed as 70th on that list.
I place no stock in IQ as a measure of anything.
The point I was making earlier was that Israel was a leader in innovation - and that can be measured independently of either IQ or Nobel prize.
Frijoles---Lol...I coudnt help but notice that Jamaica was listed as 70th on that list.

HughBe--- Great observation and do you know that I am among the least of the Jamaicans?

Currently you are struggling with one who is among the least of the Jamaicans. Now, can you imagine your plight when you try to engage an average Jamaican?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#46286 Dec 29, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
My undestanding of the Nobel prize areas, or at least the areas within science (vs peace and economics) is that they are weighed heavily towards those that contribute within their respective fields.
So the question you should be examining is what does it take to be recognized within your field?
The great thing about the scientific enterprise is that it is not constrained by nationality. I.E. most scientific journals are international. Therefore, it matters less whether you are Saudi, or Russian, or Trinidadian, and more if you publish something.
Now, I admit, it can be noted that not all countries financially support their scientific enterprises equally. Thats probably a better indicator of national success than ethnic belief.
But on the other hand, when you believe that the world was built in seven days literally, that cant make you a good geologist etc etc.
Frijoles---My undestanding of the Nobel prize areas, or at least the areas within science (vs peace and economics) is that they are weighed heavily towards those that contribute within their respective fields.

HughBe--- In essence brighter people are less equipped to contribute to their fields. So the prizes tend to go to those who are less gifted but are MORE capable than their superiors, intellectually speaking.
Frijoles

United States

#46287 Dec 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Frijoles---My undestanding of the Nobel prize areas, or at least the areas within science (vs peace and economics) is that they are weighed heavily towards those that contribute within their respective fields.
HughBe--- In essence brighter people are less equipped to contribute to their fields. So the prizes tend to go to those who are less gifted but are MORE capable than their superiors, intellectually speaking.
Opinion.

Obviously you have never participated in a scientific career.
Frijoles

United States

#46288 Dec 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Frijoles---Lol...I coudnt help but notice that Jamaica was listed as 70th on that list.
HughBe--- Great observation and do you know that I am among the least of the Jamaicans?
Currently you are struggling with one who is among the least of the Jamaicans. Now, can you imagine your plight when you try to engage an average Jamaican?
Like I said, I dont really think IQ is an indicator of anything (my opinion) worthwhile in terms of intellectual productivity.

But if it was, being a fish in a smaller pool seems to me to be a startegy that is more successful than a fish in a big pool.

So you are likley ahead of the game, as long as you jump into a bigger pool.
Frijoles

United States

#46289 Dec 29, 2012
correction

As long as you DONT jump into the bigger pool
Frijoles

United States

#46290 Dec 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Your gift is appreciated nevertheless you have not dealt with my post.
Recall, why not produce a superior work to that of your rabbis?
Share your understanding of the role of translations generally and here I am speaking about the spoken and written words.
My gift will lead you to answer your questions.

Bon appetit!
Eric

Lisle, IL

#46291 Dec 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

I take it that the IDENTITY of the speaker is "1:13", in your mind, but it is not in my mind so please name the Speaker or name the object that is speaking IN VERSE 2.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

A tool in discovering the speaker of scripture is to look to the first part of the work. Therefore, in Zechariyah one can find the speaker in "Chapter" 1 of the "Book", and in particular, in "verses" 13 and 14.
Eric

Lisle, IL

#46292 Dec 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
FOCUS, my boy.
Who are the Lubavitchers?
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; Teach him to use the Internet, and he won't bother you for weeks!

www.google.com
MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#46293 Dec 29, 2012
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-21

Enemies of Islam represent our prophet as a very cruel and blood thirsty man, who would kill his “opponents, enemies and any one who disagreed with him” at “the drop of hat” and all his adversaries would be “terrified” at the mere sight of him.

The picture is far from true, let us look at some incidents from the life of prophet, as what was “this sword which killed the enmity for ever”

The Case of : A Bedouin of desert

Once prophet and his companions were returning from a Military compaign, it was noon time and very hot. Prophet saw a tree and wanted to take a small nap in its shade. He took his sword, hung it by one of the branch, and went to sleep.

A Bedouin was watching the prophet, he saw him alone, sleeping with his sword hanging by the tree. He was not a Muslim by that time, thinking it to be a good opportunity, he went to the tree, removed the sword and woke up the prophet.

“Now tell me Mohammad, who will save you from my hand”? He asked the prophet. Prophet opened his eyes, saw the Bedouin with sword in his hand standing by his head. He did not lose his calm.

“Allah” he replied in a very cool and with conviction. The Bedouin was taken aback, the sword fell from his hand, prophet picked up the sword and said

“Now, tell me, who will protect you from MY hand”

“No one, I only expect mercy and forgiveness from you hand”, he replied.

“Will you accept Islam” the prophet asked.

“No, but I will not help your enemies” the Bedouin replied. Prophet let him go unharmed.

That Bedouin was chief of his clan, he went and recounted this incident and very soon the whole clan became Muslim.

So it was the “Sword of Faith, Mercy and Kindness” by which prophet enslaved this whole clan for ever!!



The Case of : HUSEIN BIN MUNDHER, KHAZAI

This is during the period when there was tussle between the Prophet and chieftains of Makkah. They wanted to get some sort of “understanding ” between prophet and themselves. First they sent UTBAH with the mission, when that failed, they sent HUSEIN with the same mission.

He came to prophet and told him about the problem of Makkah people and told why are you doing this thing, which has caused so much rift in the Makkan society.

Prophet kept on listening, and when he had finished his talking, he asked

“ ABU IMRAN (his title) how many gods you worship these days”

“Seven, six on the earth and one in the heavens” HUSEIN replied.

“To which of these seven you fear most and ask for things” asked the prophet.

“To one, who is in heavens” HUSEIN replied.

“If you become Muslim, I will teach you two sentences which will benefit you much” said the prophet.

On this HUSEIN accepted Islam, and asked the prophet to teach him those two sentences.

“O Allah! Send guidance to my heart! And save me from harm of my own self” told the prophet.

So it was the “sword of patience and sincerity” by which prophet enslaved HUSEIN for ever!

Source: Companions of Prophet: by Talib Hashmi
Frijoles

United States

#46294 Dec 29, 2012
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; Teach him to use the Internet, and he won't bother you for weeks!
www.google.com
There is chabad in Jamaica.
Eric

Lisle, IL

#46295 Dec 29, 2012
MUQ wrote:
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-21
Enemies of Islam represent our prophet as a very cruel and blood thirsty man, who would kill his “opponents, enemies and any one who disagreed with him” at “the drop of hat” and all his adversaries would be “terrified” at the mere sight of him.
The picture is far from true, let us look at some incidents from the life of prophet, as what was “this sword which killed the enmity for ever”
After Muhammad came to Yathrib (Medina), he began to grow in power. However, a number of people, both Jew and Arab, opposed him. Muhammad began to silence his opposition by various means. One of these means was to have them murdered.

Muhammad did have a number of enemies and critics, some were dangerous, others were ordinary people who lived in the area and thought nil of Muhammad. They spoke their minds.

One by one, they were silenced. Through treaties, intrigue, or outright terror, Muhammad gained power in Medina. Eventually, he was master of the area. He knew his followers loved him, and would die for him. They were at his disposal; and at times, he chose to use them to accomplish his desires.

In Yathrib (Medina), Muhammad had a number of people killed. One of them was `Asma' bint Marwan. Her crime was that she spoke out against Muhammad for having another man murdered named Abu Afak. In his displeasure towards her, Muhammad asked his followers to murder her as well. She was killed while she slept.

The next morning when the murderer informed Muhammad of what he had done, Muhammad told him "You have helped God and His apostle".

From the Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guilaume's translation "The Life of Muhammad") pages 675, 676.

From Ibn Sa`d's Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, translated by S. Moinul Haq, volume 2, pages 30-31.
Eric

Lisle, IL

#46296 Dec 29, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
There is chabad in Jamaica.
I have told the story many times that when my son went to Israel with Birthright, the trip was chaparoned by the Lubivitchers. It was at a time of strife and I called our Rabbi to see if it were safe to go. Our Rabbi was more concerned that my son was going with the Lubivitchers than he was with the strife.
Eric

Lisle, IL

#46297 Dec 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Your gift is appreciated nevertheless you have not dealt with my post.
Recall, why not produce a superior work to that of your rabbis?
Share your understanding of the role of translations generally and here I am speaking about the spoken and written words.
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/judaism/T...
Eric

Lisle, IL

#46299 Dec 29, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
The Total number of "Human casualties" on Both Side in 10 years of "Intense Warfare" of our Prophet does not reach into 1000!!
Is there another example of such a "Peaceful Warrior" in the whole human history?
Our prophet used minimum force to get maximum result, could any one transfer the whole nation of Arabia, full with pagans into Strict Monotheism in mere 10 years with so little a force?
When you people start quoting "war history" of our prophet, you forget the most salient points!!
And you think that 'Every one of your reader" is not aware of Life History of our prophet.
But this is not the case. History of our prophet is like an open book, there is nothing hidden from our view.
But nevertheless it was a "brave effort" to prove your case!!
Make another try!!
If the one case I related is true (and you do not refute that it is), then your prophet is not the peaceful benevolent person that you have sought to portray in your never ending drivel of cut and paste. HE HAD A DEFENSELESS WOMAN KILLED IN HER SLEEP BECAUSE SHE SPOKE OUT AGAINST HIS RUTHLESSNESS. WHAT A F---ING COWARD!

She did not demean his religion. She did not take up arms against him. She disagreed with his tactic of killing innocent people.

And don't give me any BS about there only being 1000 casualties. There were almost that many in the Qurayza massacre.

"Peaceful Warrior", what an oxymoron.

Therefore, for ever post that you offer trying to show Muhammad as a peaceful, benevolent person, I will offer another exhibiting his ruthlessness.

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