Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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MUQ

Saudi Arabia

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#45050
Dec 8, 2012
 
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-2

Enemies of Islam represent our prophet as a very cruel and blood thirsty man, who would kill his “opponents, enemies and any one who disagreed with him” at “the drop of hat” and all his adversaries would be “terrified” at the mere sight of him.

The picture is far from true, let us look at some incidents from the life of prophet, as what was “this sword which killed the enmity for ever”

The Case of : IKRIMAH BIN ABU JAHL BIN HISHAM OF MAKHZOOM TRIBE

A. Early History:

Ikrimah was the son of Most Hateful of all enemies of Makkan enemies of our prophet. His father was Famous Abu Jahl, who was avowed enemy of prophet. Both father and son were hardcore enemies of prophet during his stay in Makkah.

His father used to physically torture early Muslims and he even killed the first two earliest Muslims slaves in Makkah.

Ikrimah , was young, warrior and an accomplished youth of Makkah. But he inherited the enmity of prophet from his father.

When his famed father was killed in the famous Battle of Badr, his hatred for Islam and Prophet only went on high gear.

B. After death of His father:

In the battle of Ohud, he took part in the battle and was incharge of the one flank of front cavalry section of Makkan army. When the tide of battle turned against Muslims, he and Khalid were the reason for that turn.

He took part in the Battle of Trenches that took place in 5AH, and he was at the rear of Makkan retreating army, to protect it from being attacked.

When prophet conquered Makkah in 8 AH, Ikrimah was the one, who attacked one of Muslim army’s division, he fled after loss of 7 or so dead.

C. How did prophet “slay” him:

Due to his crimes against Muslim, Prophet did not name Ikrimah in the general amnesty which he extended to most of Makkah people.

Ikrimah fled Makkah, fearing for his life and boarded a ship to take him to Abyssinia. While he was in ship, a storm engulfed the ship….Ikriamah beseeched his idols , Lat and Uzzah for deliverance….his companions of ship told him “In these situations, Lat and Uzzah are of no help…..you should call on Allah only, He alone can give you deliverance”!!

Ikrimah was shocked to hear this, He said “that is what the Prophet is preaching, how fool I was all these days, if I am safe from this storm, I will go and accept his faith”

Meanwhile his wife approached prophet and said “My husband has fled Makkah in fear of his life, will you grant him pardon also, prophet agreed to her request and asked her to bring him back, he gave her, his turban as a sign for pardon.

His wife found her returning husband, and they came to prophet, on seeing Ikrimah, prophet rose from his seat and embraced him, Ikrimah accepted Islam and became a true Muslim.

(Contd.)


Source: Companions of Prophet: by Talib Hashmi
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#45051
Dec 8, 2012
 
D. His life after Islam:

In order to save him embarrassment, prophet told his companions, that no one should criticize his father, when he is around.

He was a warrior and very good soldier with leadership skills. Prophet used him on many missions and after his death, Abu Bakr, the first Caliph used him in all major battles to curb internal strife in Arabia, after death of prophet.

He took part in the famous Battle of Yamamah against false prophet Muslaimah. He also took part in Iraqi campaigns.

During the reign of Second Caliph Omar, he was part of Muslim army in the famous battle of Yarmouk. He was leading one faction of army along with Khalid bin Waleed.

The Muslim army was outnumbered atleast one to five in that battle and fighting continued for three days and more.

When Muslim armies were feeling too much pressure, Ikrimah stood up and said “I have faought many battles against the prophet and never turned my back, how can I turned my back against these unbelievers? Who will take a pledge of Death with me?”

Four hundred of his fellows took the pledge and they attacked enemies and turned the tide against them, they all died in the battle field one after other, including Ikrimah!!

Dying Ikrimah was brought to the commander Khalid bin Waleed, who gave him water and took his head on his lap and said “you fulfilled the pledge which you took to the prophet”.

Such was Ikrimah, whom prophet “Killed using his Sword”!!
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#45052
Dec 8, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
So let us go ahead with our discussion. Who is nutter and who is corrupt.
How to identify them and isolate them, so people can have peace in the land.
Mashaal: Hamas won't recognize Israel
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-431 ...

"The West Bank, Gaza Strip and Israeli Arabs are united in the path of resistance, Jihad and the shahids," he told the elated masses....

"Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on an inch of the land," he said.

"We will never recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation and therefore there is no legitimacy for Israel, no matter how long it will take."

The politburo chief continued: "Jihad and the armed resistance is the only true path to liberation."

He congratulated the militants who were able to target cities in central Israel, saying that "We don't kill Jews because they are Jews. We kill the Zionists because they are conquerors and we will continue to kill anyone who takes our land and our holy places.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#45053
Dec 8, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
D. PA and Police Force: Yes I know the type of Police force they have, whose headquarter is “routinely surrounded” by Israeli Army. That is the sort of “policing” you want them to have?
E. So now Zionism has become part of religion? So Jihad is also part of Islamic religion, why should you complain?
F. Infants being killed daily: So you are “happy” or “sorry” that they are not being killed on daily basis? In your media it might not be “News” any more, but in our TV s we see them almost every day.
D&F:
Thank you for back tracking. I accept your apology for lying

E.It has ALWAYS been part of the Jewish religion to yearn for return to our land, for about the last 2500 years. Its been a fixed part of our liturgy, which has been fixed for 2500 years. Zionism is older than your religion. http://www.aish.com/jl/h/cc/48939022.html
Zionism is different than Jihad - there is no glory in death or any concept of martyrdom. Muslims were never kicked out their ancestral homeland.

Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#45054
Dec 8, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
In my eyes, a suicide bomber who blows himself to kill innocent men, women and children, is as guilty as a Pilot who fires missiles and bombs into civilian populated areas. Both of them knowingly kill innocent men, women and children.
This is the moral I have.
You make it sound like there is some type of equivalence.
You ignore the fact that
a) Hamas hides behind the civilian population
b) Most of the damage (and all of the intended damage) in Gaza was to military targets.

Basically you are spewing rhetoric. Similar to your earlier claim that "there is no Palestinian police force" etc etc
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#45055
Dec 8, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
and what makes you think, that even kissinger was ever true?
rabbee: well really do not care, if any one is true to anyone else in this world. since that is, the general basis of lying.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#45057
Dec 9, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Even though Muslims and Blacks and Hispanic are same in numbers as Jews, but No US president makes any "vow" to them for the safety, security and protection of them.
!!
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000...

Black persons, percent, 2011 (a) 13.1%
Persons of Hispanic or Latino Origin, percent, 2011 (b) 16.7%

Muslim Population 1.8%
http://www.muslimpopulation.com/America/

Jewish Polulation 2.1%
http://www.jewishdatabank.org/PopulationStati...

In case it escaped you, we have a BLACK president who, if it wasnt for the HISPANIC vote, in all likelihood would not have been reelected. That speaks for itself.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#45060
Dec 9, 2012
 
I find it curious that I couldnt say the word L O I N without censorship. Must be the Jewish vegans.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#45061
Dec 9, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
1. Extreme Claims:
As Jews say "Palestine is given to us for an everlasting possession" why would they object if the other party makes the same comment?
That is where they should sit and talk about the "real peace".

02. You have the scale of Truth and lie in you hands, what you decide; every one should bow their heads to your judgment. More than that I cannot say.

03. Dreaming about Palestine:
There is no harm to "dream about your dream land" for 2500 years or more, there is no harm done to anyone when you keep on dreaming. But ground realities are different.
They were given many chances to convert their dream into reality in a "rightful manner", but they missed it.
Had they listened to the message of Jesus, they would have ruled over whole of Europe and USA, but they missed the bus.
Then they got another chance, if they would have accepted the message of Last and Final Prophet, they would have ruled the whole land of Palestine for ever. But they missed the bus again.
If they keep on missing the busses again and again, they have to accept what is in store for them.
Why they want to convert their "dreams into reality"? I do not know, dreams are very good and they do not cost anything, neither to them nor to any one else!!
Many Jews, myself included would be more than happy to accomadate a Palestinian state ALONGSIDE the Jewish state.

But our hands are tied everytime some lunatic like Mesaal proclaims he wants to throw the Jews into the sea, and millions of Palestinians cheer.

What do you realistically expect the Israeli response should be to that?

That is the reality on the ground.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#45062
Dec 9, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
03A Zionism and Jihad:
Of course they have to be different. Jihad is about to give one's life for the cause. While Zionism is to work with intrigue and use others to work for you. One gets the bullet on the chest and other stabs you in the back.
How they could be same.?

4. HAMAS hiding behind the Civilians:
It is not always the case, we have photos of Israeli army and military shooting at point blank range women and children.
But today media and power is in your hand, you can make black and white and white as black.
Things always do not remain the same, who should know it better than Jews!!
It is strange that they did not learn any lesson from their past history and repeated the "same mistake" which their forefathers did 3000 years back!!
There is something which people never learn!!
3. Jihad leads to civilian casualities. How can you NOT have a problem with that?

Your statement about Zionism is rhetoric, as usual.

4. More rhetoric on your side. Nothing new there.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#45063
Dec 9, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Had they listened to the message of Jesus, they would have ruled over whole of Europe and USA, but they missed the bus.
Then they got another chance, if they would have accepted the message of Last and Final Prophet, they would have ruled the whole land of Palestine for ever. But they missed the bus again.
If they keep on missing the busses again and again, they have to accept what is in store for them.
In other words, if we would of just shut up and been good Christians or good Muslims, then there would of been no conflict between us and you guys.

Do you realize how LAME your comment sounds? How ILLOGICAL?

What size L O I N cloth do you wear?
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#45064
Dec 9, 2012
 
Hey Judging Fan,

You are lagging again.

I didnt know Sunday was a big day for the mosque.
former res

Broomall, PA

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#45065
Dec 9, 2012
 
What happened to the Christian chick from Jamaica?
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#45066
Dec 9, 2012
 
former res wrote:
What happened to the Christian chick from Jamaica?
http://glbtqja.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/mi...
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#45067
Dec 9, 2012
 
FR,
Re: our discussions on settlements
http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/12/06/31...
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#45068
Dec 9, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
In other words, if we would of just shut up and been good Christians or good Muslims, then there would of been no conflict between us and you guys.
Do you realize how LAME your comment sounds? How ILLOGICAL?
What size L O I N cloth do you wear?
rabbee: one might add, that the one misnamed as jesus. was not as critical of any other government, but the errant ysraelee government and lawmakers. since all the problems of ysrael or any country, beguin with ysrael or any country. the outside threat is nothing, compared to the internal threat.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#45069
Dec 9, 2012
 

Judged:

1

rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: one might add, that the one misnamed as jesus. was not as critical of any other government, but the errant ysraelee government and lawmakers. since all the problems of ysrael or any country, beguin with ysrael or any country. the outside threat is nothing, compared to the internal threat.
in a democracy, we the corrupted perverts elect our means of idol destruction from within. in all other forms of government, it is elected for your corrupt perversions.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#45070
Dec 9, 2012
 

Judged:

1

Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
And with the translations come the multiple interpretations.
such as yours.
next time dont make the error declaring you know anything about the Jewish religion by your participation on this forum
You are excused for this one error.
Frijoles, what is clear to me is that you qualify to be a rabbi as you are not particularly bright.

I KNOW about JUDAISM e.g. currently it teaches that a person's Jewish identity is determined by a Jewish BIOLOGICAL mother and this is BS.

Tell me Einstein, do the Jews who do not speak Hebrew know anything about JUDAISM?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#45071
Dec 9, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
So, thats your litmus test for certainty?
I KNOW you were a dung beetle in your last life.
Do you feel better now?
HugBe---I am reincarnated and yet I have no knowledge of it yet others know about MY OWN experience/reincarnation.

Frijoles---So, thats your litmus test for certainty?

HughBe--- It certainly is a part of my litmus test. I know that you accept the words of others who tell you about your own EXPERIENCES that YOU have no knowledge of. Why? Because you are a BLASTED ASS.

Frijoles---I KNOW you were a dung beetle in your last life.

HughBe-- in your previous lives you were pure BS. In this live you are CHICKEN Sh..
route

Düsseldorf, Germany

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#45072
Dec 9, 2012
 
Pascal

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